Dice-K timeline

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Dice-K timeline

    I know Dice K is not coming back until mid-summer, but I don't really understand why?  If he is throwing with good zip now, how is that he would not upgrade our team in a month, even if just as a reliever?   I would appreciate any feedback.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    Surgery was June 10. Recovery for pitchers is usually 1 year. June is one year right on target seems to me.

    BTW Ricky rather than ask start looking up some information PLEASE
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Dice-K timeline:
    I know Dice K is not coming back until mid-summer, but I don't really understand why?  If he is throwing with good zip now, how is that he would not upgrade our team in a month, even if just as a reliever?   I would appreciate any feedback.
    Posted by RickyHussle


    The mid-summer prognostications were early after his surgery.  I think some have stuck with that general timeline because it is hard to give an estimate now with Tommy John.  I have heard June.  In any case, I think it has less to do with how good he looks and feels throwing now.  It is that they want to err on the side of caution in terms of ramping up his progression.  So, if they haven't started him on regular progression yet, it will take however long it takes to get him ready to throw for real, which at this point, even if they get him going now beyond BP throwing, won't be til well after opening day, and then he will need/they will want to see him throw the equivalent of what he would have thrown in ST game situations in a minor league rehab stint.  So, when you crunch the calendar, it comes out to mid-May earliest even if they started ramping up immediately.

    All that being said, Bobby and Ben have both stated that they were pleased with how good he looks and ahead of schedule he seems.  So, maybe they are just being cautious with establishing any external expectations and Dice comes back in May.  Dunno.  Hope that is the case.  I have a good feeling about Daisuke this year.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    In Response to Dice-K timeline : The mid-summer prognostications were early after his surgery.  I think some have stuck with that general timeline because it is hard to give an estimate now with Tommy John.  I have heard June.  In any case, I think it has less to do with how good he looks and feels throwing now.  It is that they want to err on the side of caution in terms of ramping up his progression.  So, if they haven't started him on regular progression yet, it will take however long it takes to get him ready to throw for real, which at this point, even if they get him going now beyond BP throwing, won't be til well after opening day, and then he will need/they will want to see him throw the equivalent of what he would have thrown in ST game situations in a minor league rehab stint.  So, when you crunch the calendar, it comes out to mid-May earliest even if they started ramping up immediately. All that being said, Bobby and Ben have both stated that they were pleased with how good he looks and ahead of schedule he seems.  So, maybe they are just being cautious with establishing any external expectations and Dice comes back in May.  Dunno.  Hope that is the case.  I have a good feeling about Daisuke this year.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Thanks Spaceman, I was definitely underestimating the rehab stint.  If it is a 1 month rehab and a June 1st return then he is only about a month and a half from the start of the rehab stint. That makes much much more sense.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline : seriously with all the crap on this board U R knocking a guy for asking for BB info / opinions it was more than just a stat he was looking 4 way out of line jim U coulda / shoulda just ignored the thread
    Posted by pinstripezac


    Opinions are fine but to ask for information that one can find themselves is plain lazy
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    I for one am really curious to see how Dice and Lackey pitch after surgery.  And if I were the Cubs and could get some salary compensation up front, I'd seriously consider asking for either one. 

    -Daf. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    It's also important to remember that Matsuzaka is not pitching in game situations, we don't know what pitches he's throwing, it's just reporting in the newspapers that we get our information from, and no one ever comes into ST "in the best shape of their career".

    Daf - Exactly right.  Obviously Lackey was severely injured in 2011.  It seems reasonable to assume that as the Sox put a TJ clause in his contract and his 2010 season was sub-par he was also not healthy then.

    Re Matsuzaka, while the timelines aren't as stark, he obviously was pitching injured in 2010 and it seems more than reasonable to assume his injury wasn't a trauma but built up over time.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    In Response to Dice-K timeline : The mid-summer prognostications were early after his surgery.  I think some have stuck with that general timeline because it is hard to give an estimate now with Tommy John.  I have heard June.  In any case, I think it has less to do with how good he looks and feels throwing now.  It is that they want to err on the side of caution in terms of ramping up his progression.  So, if they haven't started him on regular progression yet, it will take however long it takes to get him ready to throw for real, which at this point, even if they get him going now beyond BP throwing, won't be til well after opening day, and then he will need/they will want to see him throw the equivalent of what he would have thrown in ST game situations in a minor league rehab stint.  So, when you crunch the calendar, it comes out to mid-May earliest even if they started ramping up immediately. All that being said, Bobby and Ben have both stated that they were pleased with how good he looks and ahead of schedule he seems.  So, maybe they are just being cautious with establishing any external expectations and Dice comes back in May.  Dunno.  Hope that is the case.  I have a good feeling about Daisuke this year.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus

    I don't know Spaceman, I think you are really reaching if you have high hopes or expectations from Dice K whenever he returns. His days in Boston appear to be numbered.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    It's also important to remember that Matsuzaka is not pitching in game situations, we don't know what pitches he's throwing, it's just reporting in the newspapers that we get our information from, and no one ever comes into ST "in the best shape of their career". Daf - Exactly right.  Obviously Lackey was severely injured in 2011.  It seems reasonable to assume that as the Sox put a TJ clause in his contract and his 2010 season was sub-par he was also not healthy then. Re Matsuzaka, while the timelines aren't as stark, he obviously was pitching injured in 2010 and it seems more than reasonable to assume his injury wasn't a trauma but built up over time.
    Posted by Chilliwings


    OK..... Fair points. The only sticking point being that it was a SELF INDUCED injury in the WBC  (where he pushed his arm way past a total blow out, to win one for his HOME team) that he hid from the team, then trickled out info to the Japanese press when it served him.   Too bad about the internet, tv, radio, & those other pesky media that actually follows what goes on overseas!

    I pray the guy never steps foot on the mound for the Sox again!  NO character!  Oh yeh!  He also s u c k s ! Perhaps because of injury, but his obfuscation has blown any chance of fans embracing him once again. Ownerships, management, & fans simply don't trust the guy!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    I would much rather have Dice-K in June than Andy Petite.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline : seriously with all the crap on this board U R knocking a guy for asking for BB info / opinions it was more than just a stat he was looking 4 way out of line jim U coulda / shoulda just ignored the thread
    Posted by pinstripezac


    There is really no time when you're not policing this board -- morning, noon and night. Incredibly unusual for a rival team's fan to spend as much time here as you do going after Sox fans.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
     There is really no time when you're not policing this board -- morning, noon and night. Incredibly unusual for a rival team's fan to spend as much time here as you do going after Sox fans. Posted by kimsaysthis going after Sox fans actually I was sticking up for a sox fan please try to pay closer attention
    Posted by pinstripezac


    What you do is look for any opportunity especially if you can make it appear that way towards a poster who may not say things you approve of. What are you the hero now? It probably would have made more sense for the Sox poster to respond or not, but how can that ever happen with a Yankee homer like you ready to pounce at any hour? I love the fact that you're making it out to be supporting a Sox fan. Is that how you get all your supporters? Btw, another long night for you on a Sox board leading to another long day on a Sox board?

    I will never understand how people who decribe you as being here to make sure Sox fans "keep it real and honest" (and in their defense, you describe yourself that way), can in the same breath say they know you're a Yankee homer. Why is a Yankee homer here to make sure there are no Red Sox homers on a Sox board? And why do posters support this?

    I may just put that in my sig line.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    I would much rather have Dice-K in June than Andy Petite.
    Posted by BurritoT


    That's an interesting comparison.  If I were the Sox I'd rather have Pettitte as I think he is a safer option to be serviceable and we are short of starters.  If I were the Yankees, with their depth, I'd rather have Matsuzaka as I think he has a higher ceiling.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    Tommy John Surgery and Rehab

    Tommy John is an elbow surgery that a lot of baseball players have undergone in the last 30+ years. Tommy John is just the nickname for the surgery. It is actually called ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction by doctors.
     

    Tommy John was a former pitcher for the L.A. Dodgers and the first professional athlete to successfully undergo the operation. The surgery was done in 1974 by Dr. Frank Jobe.

    The surgery is done by replacing a ligament in the medial elbow with a tendon from some where else in the body like the forearm, hamstring, knee, or foot. The tendon that is taken is then wrapped or woven into a figure eight pattern through tunnels that have been drilled into the ulna and humerus bone.

    It took Tommy John 18 months to recover from the surgery he had in 1974 but he returned to baseball and pitched in the major leagues until 1989 at age 46.

    Today the surgery only takes about an hour and full recovery takes about 10 - 12 months. One misconception that people have about Tommy John surgery is that after the surgery the pitcher will throw harder (faster) then they did before the surgery. There may be an increase in speed but it is not because of the surgery. The increases that may occur in performance is usually because of the pitcher's increased attention to conditioning.

    The rehabilitation program for post surgery is a very intense one that pitcher's are usually willing to work hard at because they don't want to be injured again. This is what makes them stronger and gives them the gains. Another reason people may believe that speed increases is because the UCL can degrade. That means over the years the pitcher's velocity will slowly decrease. After the surgery is done, the pitcher essentially has a new one, therefore they will be able to throw at the velocity that they could before their UCL started to degrade.

    The rehab for Tommy John Surgery takes about a year to fully recover. Here is an idea of what goes on during those 12 months of rehab and recovery:

    Days 1 - 7 The elbow is put into a hard brace and immobilized at 90 degrees. The baseball player will be able to move their hand and do light grip exercises.

    Week 2 Baseball players can begin to use the arm to eat and do other everyday movements. The elbow extention is gradually increased. The baseball player can get rid of the brace at 4 - 6 weeks.

    Weeks 3 - 8 The baseball player will start working on their range of motion. He can also start doing light dumbell exercises.


    Week 10 The baseball player will be able to simulate a throwing motion.


    Weeks 12 - 14 The baseball player will be able to start to swing a golf club!! He will also start going through the throwing motion with a 1 pound medicine ball.


    Week 16 Baseball players will begin a throwing program. It will be a flat ground, soft tossing at 45 feet. It will be 50 tosses broken into two 25 toss sessions. This is to be done every other day. Distance and repetitions will be increased every week until the baseball player can reach 150 feet.


    Month 6 The baseball player will begin to throw off of the mound if they are a pitcher. They are only to throw fastballs at 50% gradually increasing the number of pitches and intensity.


    Month 7 The pitcher will begin throwing breaking balls on flat grounds.


    Month 8 - 10 Start practicing in game conditions.


    Month 11 - 12 The baseball player can return to competition.

    Note: It usually takes a full season for a baseball player/pitcher to feel as good as he did before the injury.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    Why do you see Dice-K days "numbered" as a Sox player?  If anything, I think they are more positive than ever (other than maybe when he first signed).

     - The Sox can really use a starter.

     - after going through what we did with Lackey last year, as well as over all lack of depth, we should realize that maybe Dice-K wasn't as bad of an option as we originally thought.

     - Most importantly.  Valentine.  He is highyl praised over in Japan and I am sure that Dice would almost consider it "an honor" to play for him.  I an sure Dice is now looking more forward to play for the Sox than ever before.  If he is half way decent, I would expect an extension.  Not his days are "numbered".
      
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    Why do you see Dice-K days "numbered" as a Sox player?  If anything, I think they are more positive than ever (other than maybe when he first signed).  - The Sox can really use a starter.  - after going through what we did with Lackey last year, as well as over all lack of depth, we should realize that maybe Dice-K wasn't as bad of an option as we originally thought.  - Most importantly.  Valentine.  He is highyl praised over in Japan and I am sure that Dice would almost consider it "an honor" to play for him.  I an sure Dice is now looking more forward to play for the Sox than ever before.  If he is half way decent, I would expect an extension.  Not his days are "numbered".   
    Posted by sjddaj


    Good points.  Effective starting pitching is a precious commodity.  If Matsuzaka can come back and be effective I'm sure they would consider the possibility of re-signing him for 2013.  At the right price, needless to say, which would probably be no more than $6 million on a one-year deal.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    With DiceK , it seems that absence has made the heart grow fonder.  I don't recall this much affection for him when he was pitching.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Re: Dice-K timeline:
    I would much rather have Dice-K in June than Andy Petite.
    Posted by BurritoT


    Completely agree.  He could be a NICE pick-up in mid-June.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Dice-K timeline

    In Response to Dice-K timeline:
    I know Dice K is not coming back until mid-summer, but I don't really understand why?  If he is throwing with good zip now, how is that he would not upgrade our team in a month, even if just as a reliever?   I would appreciate any feedback.
    Posted by RickyHussle


    You never want to rush pitchers.  I thought Curt Shilling should have been left in florida one year for a month. He rushed back and had a terrible first half.  Leave Dice in florida for a while until he feels comfortable.  If anything, get him healthy so he can pass the physical and then trade him.
     
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