DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

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  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 11:37 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : The departure of the GM and manager are secondary to you. Trolling is your prime directive.
    Posted by BeaconHill19


    Your opinion has been noted and logged.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tc25. Show tc25's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 11:42 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    Amazing that there are still those refugees from Sawxheads who still insist that Epstink is doing a bang-up job for the RedSox.  Fine, live in a dream world.  We will now be in our fourth year without winning a damn thing.  We have a GM who has saddled us with contracts that will eat away at us for years to come, and we have a manager who has turned what was once a tough and scrappy team into a bunch of moaners and babies.  Both Theo and FrancoMa have to go, otherwise we will continue to flounder until they do.
    Posted by seabeachfred

    seabeachfred, good to see you back on this board again. No one has talked about this but we left spring training with a bullpen that was Reyes, fat & out of shape, Albers also out of shape & overweight, Jenks fat & out of shape, a 44 yr old knuckleballer & Dan Wheeler who Tito refused to pitch until late August & Sept.& Tito only pitch him because he had no choice. Combine that with a starting pitching unit that is out of shape & we now realize the trouble we are in.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jh13. Show jh13's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 12:39 PM EDT

    gotta say that I was a bit bummed when the Sox passed on Harden...especially at the price.  Bedard was definitely not worth what the Sox gave up and Harden would have been a better pitcher anyways.

    Theo got the wrong side of the coin.

    As far as the med staff goes...they got it right on Bay and wrong with Ells last season.  Medical is tough but the Sox do seem to need an upgrade as the group that they have now definitely has a spotty record of the years.  If they were my docs, I probably would of already changed doctors based on the number of times they have been wrong.

    If they wanted to have only a 50% success rate, they should of become baseball players, and not doctors.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 12:49 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    gotta say that I was a bit bummed when the Sox passed on Harden...especially at the price.  Bedard was definitely not worth what the Sox gave up and Harden would have been a better pitcher anyways. Theo got the wrong side of the coin.
    Posted by jh13


    Once again, take a look at the numbers.  Harden has a 5.08 ERA since the July 31 deadline.  And he was the guy who couldn't hold a 7-1 lead against the Yankees in the game that ended 22-9.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 1:01 PM EDT

    gotta say that I was a bit bummed when the Sox passed on Harden...especially at the price. Bedard was definitely not worth what the Sox gave up and Harden would have been a better pitcher anyways.

    Here are Bedard's and Harden's ERAs for the past three years:
    Bedard: 3.66; 3.45; 3.50
    Harden: 4.74; 5.58; 4.09

    Bedard has been consistently better than Harden, though both have been better than Wakefield, Miller, and Lackey. The only mistake Epstein made was not getting BOTH of them and releasing Miller, who is not a ML  caliber pitcher.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 1:05 PM EDT

    As far as the med staff goes...they got it right on Bay and wrong with Ells last season. Medical is tough but the Sox do seem to need an upgrade as the group that they have now definitely has a spotty record of the years. If they were my docs, I probably would of already changed doctors based on the number of times they have been wrong.

    They are even worse than that. Contrary to what some have opined here, I actually AM a doctor, so I think I have a little more useful an opinion than most lay people. They got it wrong with Buchholtz too: they didn't do an MRI until AUGUST when they discovered a fracture. IMO this should have been done in July when he first started complaining of pain. The test has no side effects. Its expensive, but so what? I think they also got it wrong with Pedroia last year, allowing him back on the field when he was not ready. I do not trust them; this area needs an overhaul.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 1:41 PM EDT

    Pumpsie: Did you get off the team bus in NYC, go AWOL for three days with Gene Conley, and try to catch a plane to Israel without having a passport?
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zack5042. Show zack5042's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 2:38 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : You really don't know why INEPSTINK should be bashed? GIVE ME A BREAK! Let me refresh your memory: Cameron, Wakefield, Miller, Jenks, LACKEY, Morales, Lugo, Renteria, Smoltz, Penny, Schoenweiss.....and thats just a start. This franchise is going NOWHERE until our current incompetent GM is FIRED and takes our ignoramus manager with him. Face facts Brady....for a change.
    Posted by pumpsie-green


    Lets see, Cameron 4th outfield. Wakefield-196 wins as a Red Sock, Miller-Reconstruction project, Jenks bad signing, Lackey bad signing, Morales insurance pitcher to face leftys since our left handed specialist got injured, Lugo Bad signing, Renteria bad sgning, Smoltz Reconstruction project, Penny reconstruction project.
    You can't Call Low risk high reward players bad signing they didn't work out. Big deal there goes 1 million dollars that they didn't need.
    Now how about this.
    Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Pedey, A-Gon, Youk, Salty, Timlin, Hideki Okajima (Yes he was a good signing.), Millar, Muellar, Half of Daisuke, Papelbon, Bard, Schilling, Etc... 
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 3:33 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : Lets see, Cameron 4th outfield. Wakefield-196 wins as a Red Sock, Miller-Reconstruction project, Jenks bad signing, Lackey bad signing, Morales insurance pitcher to face leftys since our left handed specialist got injured, Lugo Bad signing, Renteria bad sgning, Smoltz Reconstruction project, Penny reconstruction project. You can't Call Low risk high reward players bad signing they didn't work out. Big deal there goes 1 million dollars that they didn't need. Now how about this. Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Pedey, A-Gon, Youk, Salty, Timlin, Hideki Okajima (Yes he was a good signing.), Millar, Muellar, Half of Daisuke, Papelbon, Bard, Schilling, Etc... 
    Posted by zack5042


    Let me help you out here: Wakefield was fine for many years; its resigning him for the past two years that was stupid; same with Varitek. We should have solved our catcher problem sooner rather than signing a has-been who has trouble batting .200 after August. Miller is a BUM who was rejected by countless teams before we got him; and he is STILL on the roster, unbelievably enough. Cameron was such a bad signing that Epstein himself admitted it to the press, saying he "owns" that one. Matsusaka never worked out except for one season. Gonzalez has yet to prove himself, though he may. And as I recall, Epstein had little to do with signing Schilling; that was done during his absence (could be wrong, but I can find out). Youkilis was drafted in 2001, before your hero arrived. Now I can name countless more failures, but I am going to spare you the embarassment. The simple fact of the matter is that Epstein has no ability to judge FA talent; way too many mistakes. Showalter was right: he would not survive in a small market/small budget situation
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 3:44 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : Let me help you out here: Wakefield was fine for many years; its resigning him for the past two years that was stupid; same with Varitek. We should have solved our catcher problem sooner rather than signing a has-been who has trouble batting .200 after August. Miller is a BUM who was rejected by countless teams before we got him; and he is STILL on the roster, unbelievably enough. Cameron was such a bad signing that Epstein himself admitted it to the press, saying he "owns" that one. Matsusaka never worked out except for one season. Gonzalez has yet to prove himself, though he may. And as I recall, Epstein had little to do with signing Schilling; that was done during his absence (could be wrong, but I can find out). Youkilis was drafted in 2001, before your hero arrived. Now I can name countless more failures, but I am going to spare you the embarassment. The simple fact of the matter is that Epstein has no ability to judge FA talent; way too many mistakes. Showalter was right: he would not survive in a small market/small budget situation
    Posted by pumpsie-green


    Who needs Law to come back when we have Pumpsie.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 6:48 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    Joe just put an absolute beatdown on aussiewill. Also, flapjack, awesome choice for your avatar. Such a good show.
    Posted by RonSwanson

    Thanks, man. Great show indeed. I'm patiently awaiting the new season...well, sort of patiently...


    And I had to respond to another one of these laundry lists of supposed Theo mistakes...some of the inclusions on these always befuddle me:

    Once again like Teixeira, Renteria, Lugo, Drew, Penney, Baldelli, Saito, Smoltz, LaRoche, Kotchman- he was wrong.

    Just curious, what was he "wrong" about with Teixeira? The Sox made him a massive offer, the Yankees just bid higher. A couple years later we got A-Gon instead. No harm, no foul IMO.

    Saito? I seem to remember he pitched pretty well for us.

    LaRoche? Do you even know who we traded for him? Hunter Strickland and Argenis Diaz. Look up their exploits since then.

    Kotchman? Yeah, he kind of stunk, but again - Hunter Strickland and Argenis Diaz.

    It's easy to tally up these lists of players who didn't work out - because let's face it, no GM gets it right 100% of the time. I look at the overall success of the team as the barometer. But  if we're going to play this game, what do you say about Schilling, Ortiz, Foulke, Mueller, Arroyo, Papelbon (signing), Ellsbury (signing), Buchholz (signing+extension), Pedroia (signing+extension), Lester (extension), Youkilis (extension), Bard (signing), Gonzalez, Bay, V-Mart, Salty (working out pretty well so far)...that's just a few off the top of my head that have worked out great for the team in the Theo era.

    (One also has to wonder why, if the list of Theo's disasters is as voluminous as we're supposed to believe, the negative posters always try to puff up their lists with Scott Schoenoeweisses and Casey Kotchmans.)
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 6:56 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : Thanks, man. Great show indeed. I'm patiently awaiting the new season...well, sort of patiently... And I had to respond to another one of these laundry lists of supposed Theo mistakes...some of the inclusions on these always befuddle me: Once again like Teixeira, Renteria, Lugo, Drew, Penney, Baldelli, Saito, Smoltz, LaRoche,  Kotchman- he was wrong. Just curious, what was he "wrong" about with Teixeira? The Sox made him a massive offer, the Yankees just bid higher. A couple years later we got A-Gon instead. No harm, no foul  IMO. Saito? I seem to remember he pitched pretty well for us. LaRoche? Do you even know who we traded for him? Hunter Strickland and Argenis Diaz. Look up their exploits since then. Kotchman? Yeah, he kind of stunk, but again - Hunter Strickland and Argenis Diaz. It's easy to tally up these lists of players who didn't work out - because let's face it, no GM gets it right 100% of the time. I look at the overall success of the team as the barometer. But  if we're going to play this game, what do you say about Schilling, Ortiz, Foulke, Mueller, Arroyo, Papelbon (signing), Ellsbury (signing), Buchholz (signing+extension), Pedroia (signing+extension), Lester (extension), Youkilis (extension), Bard (signing), Gonzalez, Bay, V-Mart, Salty (working out pretty well so far)...that's just a few off the top of my head that have worked out great for the team in the Theo era. (One also has to wonder why, if the list of Theo's disasters is as voluminous as we're supposed to believe, the negative posters always try to puff up their lists with Scott Schoenoeweisses and Casey Kotchmans.)
    Posted by Flapjack07


    One way to look at it is a bottom line approach. Here is the bottom line: since 2007 the franchise has not come close to winning a ring, and even seems to be going downhill as far as pitching is concerned. Without even getting into specific names, who is responsible for personnel decisions for the club? Thats right, Theo Epstein. If a company is failing you look at the CEO and generally, CEOs of failing companies aren't around very long. In baseball its the GM. We need a new one.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 8:22 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : One way to look at it is a bottom line approach. Here is the bottom line: since 2007 the franchise has not come close to winning a ring, and even seems to be going downhill as far as pitching is concerned. Without even getting into specific names, who is responsible for personnel decisions for the club? Thats right, Theo Epstein. If a company is failing you look at the CEO and generally, CEOs of failing companies aren't around very long. In baseball its the GM. We need a new one.
    Posted by pumpsie-green


    2008: RedSox fell one game short of going to the WS. Try doing some research before posting such drivel. And while UR at it, tell the board how many WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS the RedSox won in UR lifetime, prior to current management team.

    Oh, and please be specific.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 9:30 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : 2008 : RedSox fell one game short of going to the WS. Try doing some research before posting such drivel. And while UR at it, tell the board how many WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS the RedSox won in UR lifetime, prior to current management team. Oh, and please be specific.
    Posted by harness


    And it was probably one bad decision short of winning the WS.  Beckett should've been pulled.  You can't tell how we'd have done v Philly, but we certainly had a better team than them.

    Basically one bad decision/pitch from winning it, but i guess that's not close.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 9:37 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : And it was probably one bad decision short of winning the WS.  Beckett should've been pulled.  You can't tell how we'd have done v Philly, but we certainly had a better team than them. Basically one bad decision/pitch from winning it, but i guess that's not close.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    I know. But pinpointing it to Tito would get Pumpsie's bowell's in an uproar, so I went with one game.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 9:38 PM EDT

    If this is the real Pumpsie Green then he has a right to be combative against the Sox ownership, front office, and fans after how he was treated in the 1950s by the Yawkey regime. Read his biography.

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/12/2011 9:46 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?:
    In Response to Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG? : I know. But pinpointing it to Tito would get Pumpsie's bowell's in an uproar, so I went with one game.
    Posted by harness


    Nah, I throw it all on the table.  Tito is a good manager who made a bad decision.  No sense in denying it.  It might help to know why, but I was all but certain Longoria was going to hit the ball hard someplace.

    I'd rather just admit it than try to pull a Pumpsie like saying we weren't even close to the WS when in fact, we should've been in there.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/13/2011 2:49 AM EDT

    @beacon hill... me no bingo. also i meant kevin millwood. y did we try to keep him or at least give him a shot. how worse could he have been over wake, miller and lackless or weiland?

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: DID THEO GET SOFT ON DICK HARDEN VS ERIC BEDARD DEAL, ANOTHER HE GOT WRONG?

    posted at 9/13/2011 9:02 AM EDT

    He should have taken both Harden and Bedard. Their #3 and #5 starters are done for the year. Their #4 starter is unreliable and at points this year they didn't know if they could allow him to finish the season in the rotation. That's 3 of 5 starters done or unreliable. The guys who fill in (Miller, Wakefield) are hit and miss, giving some good starts despite obvious flaws that bite them during other starts...

    I don't think it would have been a terrible idea to add two arms at the deadline. Harden cost a player to be named and a player who has no future in Boston.
     

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