Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WE5NUTS. Show WE5NUTS's posts

    Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    I WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER HERE!!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Boston bids adieu to franchise's leading closer

    Papelbon agrees to four-year deal with NL East champ Phillies


    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111111&content_id=25957590&vkey=news_bos&c_id=bos


    "We never made an offer, haven't made an offer to this point," Cherington said. "We have had a lot of discussions with Sam and Seth [Levinson, Papelbon's agents], about the concepts. To this point, it's been clear that where we see it, what we'd be willing to do at this point in the offseason -- given what our other needs are and given what we feel the alternatives are -- is not something that matched up with what Pap was looking for...."


    ...just as an aside and hopefully not to be taken entirely as a criticism but...how is it that this "great baseball town's fans" have to ask for this information and are not well-read enough to FIND IT ON THEIR OWN?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    No they didn't, he was done, they were done with him; glad he won't be on in the 9th any longer.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from FastEddie50. Show FastEddie50's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    haha, this is so funny.

    The idiot sux are too busy organizing their Popeye's coupons to get serious about their 2012 closer.

    Maybe Fatso Bill James can resurrect "Bullpen by Committee"?

    Please make it Danielle Bard.  The Yanks own this clown.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    "We never made an offer, haven't made an offer to this point," Cherington said. "We have had a lot of discussions with Sam and Seth [Levinson, Papelbon's agents], about the concepts. To this point, it's been clear that where we see it, what we'd be willing to do at this point in the offseason -- given what our other needs are and given what we feel the alternatives are -- is not something that matched up with what Pap was looking for...."
     

    Bens first big decision as GM as he is looking for a manager.  He does have a plan.  The plan is going to be hard to follow because of Theos FA signing messes he left behind.  Bard will make the transition Paps will be happy with his big contracgt in Philly.  Its business.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    So if you are glad Pap is gone how do you feel about Bard closing?  I don't think he will get the job done.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Bens first big decision as GM as he is looking for a manager.  He does have a plan.  The plan is going to be hard to follow because of Theos FA signing messes he left behind. 

    Where are all the Crawford signing apologists now?

    When I said his signing would "cripple" this team's ability to make moves for 6 more years, they all said we'd have plenty of money because "Drew and others were coming off the books over the next few years".

    Well?

    Is Papi next?

    We have so many needs right now, and maybe just about $30M to fill them and stay at the 2011 budget level. Assuming Bard becomes the closer, we will need...

    1) A very good starter to fill the 4 slot.
    2) One or two decent starters to fill the 5 slot (or move Aceves or gamble on Tazawa/Doubront/Weiland).
    3) Two good set-up men to replace Bard (three if Aceves starts).
    4) A DH (or go with Lavarnway and rotate guys like Youk a few times).
    5) RF- maybe a RH'd platoon guy (or gamble with Reddick/Kalish/Brentz)
    6) Back-up catcher (unless we go with Salty/Lavarnway the DH)

    Assume we sign Papi for about $10M/yr: that leaves about $20M for all the other slots, except maybe back-up catcher, since Lava can now catch instead of DH.

    I haven't heard a peep from the Crawford signing supporters about what their plan is. I'm sure they'll just simplify it by saying something like, Henry has a lot of cash, he should just open his wallet..."

    Even if Henry OKs $40M to spend this winter, it will be tight, and we'll have to rely on 1-2 kids to fill 1 or 2 of these slots...

    SP: Tazawa, Doubront, Weiland, Ranaudo, Wilson, or Barnes
    RP: Doubront, Bowden, Morales, or others...
    C/DH: Lavarnway (or move Youk here: see below)
    RF: Reddick, Kalish, Linares, Brentz, Jacobs...
    3B (trade Youk to save money or DH him): Aviles/Lowrie/Middlebrooks
    SS (trade Scutaro to save money): Iglesias, Aviles/Lowrie/Bogaerts
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    But I am ok with fitting "kids" in 1 or 2 slots.  It is what good teams do.  It's how to keep the team contending year in an year out.  And watching them develop and exceep expectations it is more exciting than watching some overpaid vet play.

    If Iglesias or Bogaerts seem ready for the show in July, then Scutaro could be traded, and more money would be available for the bullpen addition or rotation help that develops (assuming it does).

    And I would not pay Papi that much to DH.  That is just too much.  That money needs to go to the bullpen and the added starter (I am assuming Aceves becomes a starter).  Let Papi take a home town discount or take a walk, IMO.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Thought I'd read Aceves will be given the chance to start, so we'd just need one till dice comes back.  What about Bedard, is he on the team, is he signed?  Of course, he'd have to stay healthy, can't count on that, he pitches well enough to be a 4 though.  Need pen guys, you never know with them, sign a bunch and see who works, go for Nathan, think Weiland may develop into a dependable pen guy.  I feel that way too par, let some younger guys play, Lava, for sure; I'd wait on SS though, that kid can't hit; hoping for a Middlebrooks fast development.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    In Response to Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?:
    [QUOTE]I WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER HERE!!!
    Posted by WE5NUTS[/QUOTE]

    Then the answer would be no. Probably because they have other plans.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    In Response to Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?:
    [QUOTE]I WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER HERE!!!
    Posted by WE5NUTS[/QUOTE]

    If i give you the real answer will you cry?????Papelbon wanted NO!! part of this team. Sorry to give you the truth but you asked for it.......Please do not harm yourself.....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Ben gave an answer and his answer was clear.  They didn't offer a contract because there was just no way, given the current payroll obligations and roster needs, that they were going to give Papelbon the moon he was asking for.  The answer was not mysterious and the mindset is clear.  And, though I am sad to see him go, love me some kilty Paps, and think he could still do some good things for this club, I agree with the decision.  In fact, I hope he goes whole hog with the seeming plan and give Bard the closer spot and just hire a good set-up guy, instead of ponying up Bell or Madsen money.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Theo accepted the option on Papi last winter for $12.5M. Papi had a 2012 season that exceeded expectations.

    He's a year older now, and the market for DH is not too high right now, but I do think he'll get offers for at least $8M x 2 years. Can we afford that and still address our other needs? That is the true question.

    If we get a cheap RH'd RF'er to go with one of Kalish or Reddick, go with Salty/Lava at catcher, and fill 4 of the 12 pitching slots with some of these guys:
    Tazawa, Doubront, Weiland, Bowden, Morales, Albers and Atchison (Dice-K after July 1st or so).

    Beckett
    Lester
    Buchholtz
    ________ (FA or trade)
    *Tazawa
    *Doubront
    *Bowden
    *Morales
    Jenks
    Aceves
    ________ (FA or trade)
    Bard

    Maybe we can pull it off with 2 pitcher pick-ups and Papi, but we'll need a lot of things to go right and have no major injuries. I just see it as probably being easier to use Lava and Youk at DH and and getting 3-4 (better) pitchers rather than 2.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    In Response to Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?:
    [QUOTE]Ben gave an answer and his answer was clear.  They didn't offer a contract because there was just no way, given the current payroll obligations and roster needs, that they were going to give Papelbon the moon he was asking for.  The answer was not mysterious and the mindset is clear.  And, though I am sad to see him go, love me some kilty Paps, and think he could still do some good things for this club, I agree with the decision.  In fact, I hope he goes whole hog with the seeming plan and give Bard the closer spot and just hire a good set-up guy, instead of ponying up Bell or Madsen money.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    I'm with you. I bite my tongue saying and even thinking David Aardsma as a set-up man...he had a nice season in 2009, the last time he was healthy.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    In Response to Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?:

    I'm sure they'll just simplify it by saying something like, Henry has a lot of cash, he should just open his wallet..." Even if Henry OKs $40M to spend this winter...

    Let's assume that there are $40M to spend. I know you all going to jump at me for this. But the odds of winning a few rings are much higher with this one move. I say give the best offer Sox can to the best and proven free agent and arguably best MLB player available on the market. Lets say we can lure Pujols with $20M/10year contract. He is 31 now and will be 41 at the end of his career, he may not be as productive last few years but I care less. One thing is for sure, we will have the best batting line up in the MLB and the best chance for the Sox to win some rings. Sign Papi for $8M/3 years. Play Pujols/A-Gon third base until Papi is retired. We dont have luck signing SP in free agency, so get SP with trades. Trade Youk for quality young pitcher. Move Aceves to SP as the fift starter. There is still $12M to spend on relievers/closer...realize that we are brainstorming here .
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    My feeling about Papelbon, and let me just say I'm absolutely crushed to see him go and think it was a bad move, there was probably no way he was going to stay. When I think about it, Papelbon was the only guy to defend Francona before he was let go. I believe they may have had a great relationship. I'm sure he wasn't happy when he left. It is interesting that Francona was the Phillies manager. It is possible that Francona may have helped Pap with a Phillies connection. He could have even recommended him.

    Having said that, I think with the Phillies pitching staff, and Paps being a pitcher, it was probably an opportunity to be on what will probably be, once again, the best pitching staff in baseball...only now it just got better. It may wind up being one of the best pitching staffs in baseball history. Way too good to pass up. And I'm also sure they enjoy being around each other.

    If I heard Verlander was going there next, it would be hard to be surprised. I'm kidding of course since he's not available, but if he was...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    We don't have $40M, unless we are raising our payroll budget by abour $15M.

    AGon got a huge raise. Buch got a raise. We took Scutty's $6M option. We have about $25M to fill 7 slots, unless we raise the bar.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Our CBT budget so far...
    (avg anual salary of contract)

    AGon  $22.0M
    Craw  $20.3M
    Beck   $17.0M
    Lack   $16.5M
    Youk  $10.3M
    Dice     $8.0M
    Buch    $7.5M
    Ells    ~$7.0M (est arb raise- 2nd of 3- from $2.4M in '11)
    Pedey $6.7M
    Lest    $6.0M
    Jenks  $6.0M
    Scut    $5.7M
    Bard  ~2.5M  (est arb- 1sy of 3- from $.505M in '11)
    Acev ~$2.5M
    (est arb- 1st of 3- from $.65M in '11) 
    Salty ~$2.5M (est arb-2nd of 3- from $.75M in '11)
    Iggy    $2.1M
    Aviles~$1.0M (est arb-1st of 3- from $.64M in '11)
    Albers~1.0M  (est arb- 2nd of 3- from $.875M in '11) 
    Taza ~$0.8M  (est, pre-arb, then 4 more arbs: made $1.1M x 3 yrs)
    Lowrie ~$.8M (est arb- 1st of 3- from $.45M in '11)
    DMac ~$0.5M  (est, pre-arb, then 3 more arbs: made $.47M in '11)
    Moral ~$0.5M (est arb-1st of 3- from $.424M in '11)
    Doub ~$0.5M (pre-arb, then 2 more pre-arbs+3 arbs: made $.417M)
    Atch  ~$0.5M (pre-arb, then 1 more pre-arb+3 arbs: made $.454M)
    R.Hill ~$0.5M (2nd arb? out of 3???)
    All the rest are pre-arb and close to minimum salary:.

    Oki??? 2nd of 3 arbs: made $1.75M in '11 (May let him go)

    By my estimate, our total payroll budget (assuming we sign the arb guys)is currently at about: Lavarnway, Kalish, Reddick, Bowden (no options), Weiland, Anderson, Tejada, Exposito, Pimental, etc...
    Add about $8M for the rest at near min salary:



    $156M Total Estimated Salary for 2012 with no moves.

    It was about $164M in 2011 and $168M in 2010 according to Cots.
    It was about $167M in 2011 according to baseball reference, and they estimate our 2012 player payroll budget (with arbs signed) at about $160.4M.

    I think many posters are grossly over-estimating how much we have to spend this winter to fill at least 7 slots (with kids or otherwise):
    1) SP
    2) SP
    3) Closer/Set-up
    4) DH
    5) RP
    6) RF (RH'd)
    7) C



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    The way Ben states it, it seems clear to me that offering a contract - or at least discussing real dollar terms - had not come close to what was being sought by Paps' agents.

    The very speed in which the Phillies signed Papelbon speaks to his desire to leave and the vast gap between realities of negotiations.

    Sad to see him leave, but I think he was willing to leave two seasons ago.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Can they really afford to start Aceves now that Paps is gone?  I think he is far more valuable in the 7th.  Not sure Bard has the makeup for a closer.  Has the stuff though.   When he was first drafted.  He had control issues and was converted to relief.  So I dunno.  I think they go the cheap route and rely on a couple reclamation projects, (i.e.  Nathan, et al.) 

    Each time Rivera became a FA I thought the Yanks would let him go, effectively thinking he was done.  But each time they signed him.  The difference?  Mariano throws that cut fast ball, probably the best in all of baseball.  Paps has the one pitch.  Four years is a long time.  So maybe he will be like Clemens and be great.  But he wasn't getting old on Ben's watch. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    Ben said changes.  This is step 1.  I think that paps wanted gone anyway and once he gotthe offer from philly.....done deal....sox had no chance.  my only hope is that a new coaching staff...pitching coach worth spit...can do something special with the current bunch.  I just don't see Ben making hugh changes with the current staff.  more like shuffling and holding people accountable.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    In Response to Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?:
    [QUOTE]Our CBT budget so far... (avg anual salary of contract) AGon  $22.0M Craw  $20.3M Beck   $17.0M Lack   $16.5M Youk  $10.3M Dice     $8.0M Buch    $7.5M Ells     ~$7.0M (est arb raise- 2nd of 3- from $2.4M in '11) Pedey $6.7M Lest    $6.0M Jenks  $6.0M Scut    $5.7M Bard  ~2.5M  (est arb- 1sy of 3- from $.505M in '11) Acev ~$2.5M (est arb- 1st of 3- from $.65M in '11)  Salty  ~$2.5M (est arb-2nd of 3- from $.75M in '11) Iggy    $2.1M Aviles~$1.0M (est arb-1st of 3- from $.64M in '11) Albers~1.0M   (est arb- 2nd of 3- from $.875M in '11)  Taza  ~$0.8M   (est, pre-arb, then 4 more arbs: made $1.1M x 3 yrs) Lowrie ~$.8M (est arb- 1st of 3- from $.45M in '11) DMac ~$0.5M   (est, pre-arb, then 3 more arbs: made $.47M in '11) Moral ~$0.5M (est arb-1st of 3- from $.424M in '11) Doub ~$0.5M (pre-arb, then 2 more pre-arbs+3 arbs: made $.417M) Atch  ~$0.5M (pre-arb, then 1 more pre-arb+3 arbs: made $.454M) R.Hill ~$0.5M (2nd arb? out of 3???) All the rest are pre-arb and close to minimum salary:. Oki??? 2nd of 3 arbs: made $1.75M in '11 (May let him go) By my estimate, our total payroll budget (assuming we sign the arb guys)is currently at about: Lavarnway, Kalish, Reddick, Bowden (no options), Weiland, Anderson, Tejada, Exposito, Pimental, etc... Add about $8M for the rest at near min salary: $156M Total Estimated Salary for 2012 with no moves. It was about $164M in 2011 and $168M in 2010 according to Cots. It was about $167M in 2011 according to baseball reference, and they estimate our 2012 player payroll budget (with arbs signed) at about $160.4M . I think many posters are grossly over-estimating how much we have to spend this winter to fill at least 7 slots (with kids or otherwise): 1) SP 2) SP 3) Closer/Set-up 4) DH 5) RP 6) RF (RH'd) 7) C
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moonslav, I have to say that you are very ANALytical. But its all good cos at the end of the day it is all about the numbers. So we can agree on whats coming out of the books, about $49M, including Papi's $. Then you substract arb awards, about $10M total, we have about $39M if they keep the budget same as last year. Now if Mr. Henry can add about $10M to that we are looking at about $50M budget that they can play with. Instead of signing bridge players I say go after a player like Pujols. I think they can make a decision now either to win it all or to be a "me too team". They dont have to sign any other player thr free agency, sign this guy and go after trades for pitching.
     
    Its interesting that Sox spend about $33M going to 2012 non-playing players (Lackey, Dice, Jenks, Iggy). That just shows how much money is going down the tube. It is out of my understanding why are we paying $2.1M year after year for Iggy? I wonder if Sox can release any of these players?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?

    In Response to Re: Did they even offer Papelbon a contract?:
    [QUOTE]Ben said changes.  This is step 1.  I think that paps wanted gone anyway and once he gotthe offer from philly.....done deal....sox had no chance.  my only hope is that a new coaching staff...pitching coach worth spit...can do something special with the current bunch.  I just don't see Ben making hugh changes with the current staff.  more like shuffling and holding people accountable.
    Posted by never1954[/QUOTE]

    Agree that Papelbon would have left even if the Red Sox had offered him the same or more than Philly did.  I believe he didn't want to stay in Boston. 
     

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