Dissention? or Disintegration

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In Response to Re: Dissention? or Disintegration:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dissention? or Disintegration : Wake's #s, while not good, was still BIG LEAGUE; those other guys weren't.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Agree.
    BTW: You called it on the NY/Tiger series. I really felt NY had them after they won game one. A traditional NY team wins game 5 IMO.
    I felt all year NY was playing better than they really were. Their win total was reflective of their ability, but I also think it says something about how so many teams were flawed this year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In Response to Re: Dissention? or Disintegration:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dissention? or Disintegration : Agree. BTW: You called it on the NY/Tiger series. I really felt NY had them after they won game one. A traditional NY team wins game 5 IMO. I felt all year NY was playing better than they really were. Their win total was reflective of their ability, but I also think it says something about how so many teams were flawed this year.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    They had some very expensive goats; that may be impressive in Galilee, but in NY....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to harness' comment:
    [QUOTE]While the board is trying to connect imaginary dots from Tito's farewell speech, I thought I'd try to inject some stability into the rampant, low-class witch-hunt that is plaguing this board.

    Does anybody really think for one moment that dissention caused the collapse?
    Do you have any idea how much dissention occurs in a given clubhouse, with
    25 guys working and living together for a good part of 6 months?

    Ask Reggie Jackson, who has many rings despite playing under a volatile manager and a loudmouth, hands-on owner.
    Talent won those rings, just as injuries that decimated a pitching staff can lose a WC position.

    Sooooooooooooooo, Tito makes allusions about players not backing themselves up...losing control of the same players who's back he's had for 8 years. Now, in one month, suddenly there's all this dissention.
    Funny that we had the same players - only healthier - playing better baseball than any team in the game during the summer. Same team that was headed for a divisional title and 100 wins.

    On top of Buch and Dice going down, the team loses Beckett and Bedard, who was just starting to pitch well. Then the swoon begin. Then all of a sudden there is dissention. What the hell do you think will be born out of a clubhouse panic stricken and mobbed daily by by the press monster and fan expectation? Joy and love?

    Now here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, the very thing that worked in Tito's favor since 2004 was working against him. Gee, does this happen to other managers?
    Look how many successes the great managers of the game have had...and ask yourself why they ended up managing so many teams.

    Maybe, just maybe, Tito's loyalty to his coaches, for example, blinded him to the realities. Maybe the FO gave into him up to now because his approach had paid off. Now Tito had to face the fact his blind loyalty was just that. He got away with it when he had trusteed personnel like life-long friend Mills and close friend Farrell. 

    Mills leaves and the team seems unprepared out of ST. Lacking fundamentals.
    No way Tito blames DeMarco Hale. Bogar continues to show aggressive
    ineptness but Tito admirably has his back.
    Farrell leaves and pitchers start losing velocity. Experience erratic form. Injuries abound. No way Tito throws Young under the bus. And since the team is sitting pretty in late August, the status quo is allowed to continue.

    Tito made one statement that I think holds more truth than any whacked-out mind trip could post: He said "Maybe after 8 years in one place, (maybe) it's time for a new voice". After abject failure of this proportion, a man has to come to terms with himself. His approach worked for many years. But there were certain things he wasn't willing to change, like hardcore decisions that would have compromised the very core of what endeared him to players and fans alike.

    That's why it's hard for many of us to see him leave. He's a quality person. And the nature of the job eats into that. But perhaps it's better to absorb a blow to the gut...than a steady diet of deterioration.

     [/QUOTE]

    For all you folks who missed out on Harness, check out the quality of this post! With two plus years to reflect, how good was this analysis?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    The "expose" regarding chicken, beer and Tito's personal issues didn't come out until after the world series. Harness was spot on with his assessment, as he usually was, and the media ran with the more sensational excuses a few weeks later. Injuries and slumps don't create a media storm like dirty gossip. Harns was one of the best!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    I agree.

    harness is greatly missed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to BurritoT's comment:

    harness I see only a few peeps participating in another one of your snoozer threads, if you need some advice on how to run a successful thread call me 8675 309.


    Yes !!!!

     

    19,000+ posts... you can see in this thread he took the time to respond to everyone... even people being 'smart' like I. 

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to JoseLaguna's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They lost nearly all their starting pitchers prior the the September collapse and there were manny other injuries also.  My interpretation of the OP by Harness was that the collapse was caused by injuries. Tampa Bay also got red hot and the Yankees permitted TB to win the last few games. 

    Did the column by the Globe columnist that blamed the entire collapse on dissention and chicken and beer consumed by starting pitchers on their off days come out after this post by Harness? 

     

    Do you have a post by Harness that addresses the "chicken and beer" fiasco that swayed so many fans into blaming the collapse on dissention instead of injuries?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    There is really very little unexplainable in BB.  If you start with 90 wins, and add back what a healthy Scutaro, Youk, Crawford, Drew, Buchholz, and Lackey would've added, we'd have to be over 100 wins, while acknowledging you have to have some injuries.

    The ERA difference on Lackey alone is probably worth about 5 games.

    And it's almost impossible to predict Bard's almost epic collapse.  The man was Koji through the end of August.  Then he goes 0-4 in September with an ERA of almost 11.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    Nice to see Pike starting to feel right at home here again.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    Harness was a great poster, but couldn't spell "dissension" to save his life. Wink

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Harness was a great poster, but couldn't spell "dissension" to save his life. Wink

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe it was just his failing eyesight.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    I think Harness's favorite baseball word was spelled C-E-R-A. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Harness's favorite baseball word was spelled C-E-R-A. 

    [/QUOTE]

    And you guys thought I was bad!

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    Many things go into a team winning or losing. We can only speculate. Obviously , injuries play a big part. But try to be consistent. Don't say that dissension and clubhouse issues do not contribute to losing, then turn around and say that a good clubhouse atmosphere contributes to winning. You can't have it both ways. In my opinion, it was not the beer and chicken that was the problem. It was the disrespect, and the failure of management to deal with it that hurt. That and pitchers becoming overweight and out of shape. Things are much better now. " Learn from your mistakes " is a good motto for all of us. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    Wow. I saw Harness' name and thought he was back!

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    Great post as usual. He and I both agreed that there was more to the story than some players just behaving badly, and that it was a witch-hunt. It's still ridiculous to me that it carries on somewhat to this day.

    We were also HUGE Varitek supporters, and agreed that the position of catcher was more about defense than offense. Although, he always had more info to back it up, which was appreciated. :)

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    Too bad

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Too bad

    [/QUOTE]

    It's really too bad he missed this past season here. I'm sure he was following the team, but it's sad he couldn't be here giving his commentary on it.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Dissention? or Disintegration

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Too bad

    [/QUOTE]

    It's really too bad he missed this past season here. I'm sure he was following the team, but it's sad he couldn't be here giving his commentary on it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Assuming he's all right, I'm sure he was happy with the result.

     
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