Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    No, it doesn't seem like that's what they are doing but they sure should be
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    No.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

     NO...INJURIES...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    What gave it away?  The lack of activity in the off season.  Mazz has an excellent grasp of the obvious.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]What gave it away?  The lack of activity in the off season.  Mazz has an excellent grasp of the obvious.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    That's not fair.  The lack of activity in the off-season is that Theo killed the budget.  What could Ben really do with so much dead money on the payroll?
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012. : That's not fair.  The lack of activity in the off-season is that Theo killed the budget.  What could Ben really do with so much dead money on the payroll?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Stop blaming Theo.  There's no way players with huge contracts get signed without JH signoff and lucchino's stamp of approval.  In fact, there's no proof that Crawford was someone that Theo even wanted.

    And in any case, this team isn't anywhere close to losing money.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    We are under the luxury tax threshold of $178 million, which is exactly where we should stay. You know how much I hate it that a team with the highest ticket prices in baseball has to have a "bridge year", but in light of our numerous injuries and the many holes in our pitching staff, it's just we're we are at right now. Allowing next years effective tax to drop from 30% to 17%, instead of rising to 40%, is the SMART thing to do. The Yankees have already comitted to theirs rising from 40% to 50% next year, and this will be a drag on their budget, however slight this may be. I am all in favor of 1 rebuilding year, followed by an aggressive spending year next season to solve all our needs. I also anticipate some additions by subtraction as the year progresses, in preparation for next year. Theo left us in this position, and wise fans will be smart enough to be patient. 
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    I don't think the Sox consider this a bridge year at all. Yes they have had to do alot of shuffling due to injuries, but why would we expect them to replace injured players with LT contracts with high priced replacements? What, so posters can complain about the contracts of the replacements when they dont perform up to expectations?....and other posters will complain about the Minor league talent we gave up to get them? I think at this point the FO has played it just about right....this team still has the talent to more than complete for a playoff berth(even with the injuries).....come Late July if things do not go well, then we can consider it a bridge year and start seeing what our Minor Legue talent can do. I can agree with Mazz' point is that it is a Bridge year from a Budget perspective and maybe a bigger in flux of young guys by next year, but when someone says Bridge year it implies the team is giving up on winning for that year and that clearly isnt the case......yet.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    No question the Sox are trying to win this year, but in doing so they want to be careful about not jeoopardizing the future with a stupid move right now.  Given that CC and Ells are both on the DL, the outfield is actually doing OK and probably on a par with 2011.  Infield is definitely on a par with 2012 even though AGon is in a bit of a slump.  Catching ditto--at the plate, not behind it.  Ortiz is far and away the best DH in the AL.  The Sox offense is right near the top of the AL. 

    The two big problems right now are starting pitching and the bullpen, and the latter is actually doing pretty well despite the absence of Papelbon, Bard, Bailey, and Melancon.

    Specifically, this bullpen has now gone ten games and 29 innings while giving up just 2 runs, neither of which hurt. That's pretty darn good and way better than anything the starters have done.

    As for the starters, definitely a mixed bag.  Buchholz stinks so far.  Beckett is inconsistent and now might go on the DL because of those 126 pitches. Lester looked very good last time out, but still has an ERA over 4. Doubront and Bard have done better than I expected, but lack experience and consequently can't go over 150 innings this year. Plus last night Bard didn't look that great at all.  But Cook is ready to step in and reportedly Matsuzaka is not far behind with his brand new elbow. 

    So I just don't know what the FO is supposed to do beyond what's been done.  They should shortly have seven usable starters--Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Doubront, Bard, Cook, and Matsuzaka--four of whom have had at least one very good season in the past.  Beckett last year and 2007.  Matsuzaka in 2009 or 2010.  Buchholz in 2010.  Lester last year, the year before, the year before, etc. 

    Middlebrooks is available, but the Sox should make a good effort to use Youk or trade him, probably both.  CC and Ells could really help--or not.  We just don't know when either will return or how effectively. 

     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    If I ever agree with Massarotti, please tell me to shut up.

     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE] NO...INJURIES...
    Posted by 56redsox[/QUOTE]
    As for injuries .. all teams have them and using that for going on 3 years in a row begins to ring a little hollow. Everyone knew that the team wasn't going to have lackey and dice-k for at least half a season or more and management is supposed to account for that ... really no point in calling them injuries. Crawford and Elsbury are another story ... but if you look at the production from sweeney and ross; I think they are pleasant surprises and I don't know how much more crawford would have produced than either one of them at this point in the season .Elsbury is a different case; as he could be on the verge of becoming one of the top players in the game ... I think everyone was waiting to see if he could repeat. As for Youklis -- if a player hardly ever plays more than 130 games a year, can you really blame his visit to the DL on injuries? Melancon's not hurt, bailey is - but is he better than aceves in the closing spot? Like I said, injuries are part of the game; and like the yankees, the starting pitching has been somewhat dreadful, and oddly enough - no starting pitchers are injured.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012. : As for injuries .. all teams have them and using that for going on 3 years in a row begins to ring a little hollow. Everyone knew that the team wasn't going to have lackey and dice-k for at least half a season or more and management is supposed to account for that ... really no point in calling them injuries. Crawford and Elsbury are another story ... but if you look at the production from sweeney and ross; I think they are pleasant surprises and I don't know how much more crawford would have produced than either one of them at this point in the season .Elsbury is a different case; as he could be on the verge of becoming one of the top players in the game ... I think everyone was waiting to see if he could repeat. As for Youklis -- if a player hardly ever plays more than 130 games a year, can you really blame his visit to the DL on injuries? Melancon's not hurt, bailey is - but is he better than aceves in the closing spot? Like I said, injuries are part of the game; and like the yankees, the starting pitching has been somewhat dreadful, and oddly enough - no starting pitchers are injured.
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]

    WHILE I AGREE WITH EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES, PRI,  FOR CRAWFORD AND  ELLS TO BE LOST FOR HALF THE SEASON, THE CLOSER THE ENTIRE YEAR RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE, IS MORE THAN A FEW PLAYERS ON AND OFF THE DL
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012. : WHILE I AGREE WITH EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES, PRI,  FOR CRAWFORD AND  ELLS TO BE LOST FOR HALF THE SEASON, THE CLOSER THE ENTIRE YEAR RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE, IS MORE THAN A FEW PLAYERS ON AND OFF THE DL.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]
    Elsbury is an enoromous lost - but crawford's expected production is mostly being replaced by ross (hes played most of his games in LF). Hard to know what you're missing from bailey, but aceves does have 5 saves. If you want to say that they'd be doing better if they had elsbury and bailey; I won't argue with you, but I still think at the end of the day -- its the starting pitching and perhaps a slow start from some of the all stars (pedroia and gonzalez). You couldn't really ask for more from ortiz, aviles, saltalamachia or sweeney.

     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    fair post pri however replacing Bailey with Aceves and losing his long relief may prove to be immeasurable. Throws off the entire bullpen
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]fair post pri however replacing Bailey with Aceves and losing his long relief may prove to be immeasurable. Throws off the entire bullpen
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]
     I know we're getting closer to consensus, because you're typing in lower case again. I agree with you ... bullpen balance was thrown off when bailey went down.

     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012. :  I know we're getting closer to consensus, because you're typing in lower case again. I agree with you ... bullpen balance was thrown off when bailey went down.
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]

    sometimes I'm in CAPS LOCK for work and by the time I realize it, I've already posted. no disrespect intended.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012. : sometimes I'm in CAPS LOCK for work and by the time I realize it, I've already posted. no disrespect intended.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]
    none taken.
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    I heard Mazz talk about this yesterday, and my view is why can't they be doing both. The fact that they didn't make any big deals in the offseason is hardly proof. You can't spend big every offseason.

    They filled some holes -- RF, SS, so they don't have to rush the young guys. They committed to young guys in the rotation, which should be an improvement at the back of the order and build for the future. 

    Why do they have to blow it up? Get rid of who? Crawford's not tradeable. Ellsbury is a young guy who was great in September, so supposedly wasn't part of the bad culture you hear about a lot. Wouldn't he be a young guy you build around? A-Gon is one of the hitters you're building around. He's slumping now, but who doesn't slump. In fact, he accepted the blame for last night's loss. Is Pedey the problem? His biggest sin is one poorly phrases sentence when he came to the defense of a teammate. Dump Ortiz? Why? He's hitting and has a personality that supposedly is missing.

    Trade Youk? OK, fine. That's one. Iggy can't hit so why rush him. Aviles has been fine at SS. Dump Salty for Lavarnway? OK, fine. THat's two.

    As far as the rotation, Lester is always given a pass for last fall, so I doubt he's one who is supposed to be traded. Buccholz? He was hurt so he can't be blamed for last September, and how tradeable is he? Lackey's on DL and untradeable. 

    So when you hear blow up the core and get younger and look to the future, it comes down realistically to who? Beckett, Youk and Salty? Beckett's been the best pitcher last year and this year, so are you really going to gain by trading him? Ridiculous. OK, so he might be a bit high maintenance. Get over it.

    I get sick of these general statements about blowing up the core and the team being unlikeable. How about specifics?
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]When's the last time a team paid $15 million for a stop-gap DH? The idea that this is a bridge year is laughable. We just went out and spet $300+ million to previous year on free agents. When healthy, Gonzalez, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Crawford and Ortiz are perennial All-Stars, that's the majority of our lineup.
    Posted by SpruceTrap[/QUOTE] I don't know about the bridge part ... I tend to agree with you - But a lot of what happens to crawford for the life of this very long contract depends on who shows up - small town carl or big city carl. After this season; he'll be a speed merchant well into being on the wrong side of 30. As for Elsbury; I would love to see what he'll do when he comes back - but perennial all star?
     
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    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    Other than Texas who else scares a healthy Sox team? Let's with hold judgement until the assumed first 25 play 40 games. If this group can stay within 5 games until July I think given health Sox win the division
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.

    In Response to Re: Do you agee with Tony Massarotti-It seems like the Red Sox are more focused on building for 2013 than contending in 2012.:
    [QUOTE]Hell yes. We are in last place and it is going to get worse. FO did nothing to cure the problems of last year and less than nothing to improve us. I think the Prior signing says it all. However, it is fair to say they might be more than a little gun shy after all the bad moves made by theo. What is the last good signing or trade???????Theo destroyed the future of the red sox. There is little quality on the farm. There can be no harmony until whatever caused sept is taken care of. I agree with those who say it is hard to define a bridge that is costing 180 million but what are we going to say when we are 15 out???Whether it is a bridge or not we stink.
    Posted by teddybaseball009[/QUOTE]
    Last good trade by Theo ????
    Gee, I don't know......how about STEALING Gonzalez for virtually nothing ?
    Or Saltalamacchia for almost nothing ? Picking Aceves off the scrap heap ?
    Drafting and signing Bradley, Barnes, Ranaudo,Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Brentz,etc etc.
    Yes the Crawford, Lackey and newest Beckett contracts ARE millstones, but if one criticizes one must also give credit.
    How about everyone takes a deep breath and waits until late July before calling for giving up on the season ?
     
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