Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Some pretty good stats to support his argument.  That said, my complaint before this year was that he never batted in more than 68 runs in a single year.  Plus, of course, his consistent nonavailability.  The stats say otherwise, however. 

    As for this year, I think Abraham is off base in saying it's the cost of doing business.  This is a good team with a real shot at the playoffs and even the WS, and J.D. Drew is hurting, not helping.  Plus, if his nonperformance this year is acceptable, that to me means the Sox paid him $70M for four years, which is $17.5M per year.  And, because of that $14M salary this year, Francona still tries to play Drew at every opportunity.  I would rather see Reddick in right field--at least, when Crawford comes off the DL. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Why do the stats SEEM to support his argument?

    Because baseball simply does not have the talented outfielders of years past. No Yastrzemskis, Reggie Jacksons,Clementes, Bonds, Frank Robinsons, Al Kalines, etc. This particular era of MLB seems to have many, many more talented infielders than outfielders.

    If Drew played in 1972, it is doubful he would be a starter on any team....well maybe AAA.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]Why do the stats SEEM to support his argument? Because baseball simply does not have the talented outfielders of years past. No Yastrzemskis, Reggie Jacksons,Clementes, Bonds, Frank Robinsons, Al Kalines, etc. This particular era of MLB seems to have many, many more talented infielders than outfielders. If Drew played in 1972, it is doubful he would be a starter on any team....well maybe AAA.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Interesting that you mention the year 1972.  Know how many RBI Yaz had that year?

    You guessed it...68.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    I think Zilla has a point about the lack of quality outfielders.  In fact, that has always been my arguement about why it was not such a travesty for the Sox to sign him.  They were in need of a right fielder in the winter of 06.  had no one in the higher farm levels.  So, they hit the open market.  And, lo and behold, though it hardly seemed possible, the very best available rightfielder on the market was JD Drew.  And they paid him accordingly.  Market value.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    The Angels signed Gary Matthews Jr. that same offseason for 5 years, 50 million.  That was a much worse contract than Drew.  The next year they signed Torii Hunter for 5 years, 90 million.  That one has turned out to be pretty questionable too.  Now this year they topped themselves by taking on the last 4 years of Wells' contract for about 80 million.  That has disaster written all over it. 
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    When it comes down to it, people should be looking at Theo....not Drew.  Drew is a MLB player who would belittle any of us on our highschool teams, so he's wasn't Ken Griffey Jr. but the stats prove he was above average...ok so he was over paid....blame THEO!!!! don't blame a man for cashing his paycheck....cause you all know *** well you'd cash his check if you got it from your boss as well.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    is this the same tool who carried around Theo's water regarding signing Old Man River Cameron and moving him into CF????

    one more reason we should all be reaching for our guns when stat geeks try to spin their nonsense with numbers and not common sense...

    JD is a mediocre player at best during his Sox tenure - this year he is a laughing stock - yet somehow this salami decides to write a peice trying to convince us that JD is not merely adequate BUT ONE OF THE BEST RF in the majors...

    Bootlicker extraordinaire!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]is this the same tool who carried around Theo's water regarding signing Old Man River Cameron and moving him into CF???? one more reason we should all be reaching for our guns when stat geeks try to spin their nonsense with numbers and not common sense... JD is a mediocre player at best during his Sox tenure - this year he is a laughing stock - yet somehow this salami decides to write a peice trying to convince us that JD is not merely adequate BUT ONE OF THE BEST RF in the majors... Bootlicker extraordinaire!
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    LOL all he did was post actual numbers.  Most of the other right fielders were even 'more mediocre' than Drew over the 4 years, that's the real point.  It ain't rocket science. 


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    How's the old saying go, you can't truly appriecaite what you have until it's gone!

    While Abraham's did a nice job of organizing the data to support his argument. I'm sure that Epstein and Francona already knew that "Drew has been among the best RF in the AL since 2007 (even at 14M per year!). Those who know the game, understand that Drew has been an above average RF over the life of his current deal, his defense especially in Fenway, has never truly been appreciated by the casual fan. For his detractors, his inablity to hit .300 with 30 bombs which is what we thought we were getting when we stole him from the Dodgers is a the heart of thier dicontent, even his most ardent supporters know the reality is that Drew has underperformed to expectations with the bat since arriving in Boston. His personna nongrata doesn't help him with the fans, remember he replaced the popular oft injured former #1 pick the infamous Trot "the original dirt dog" Nixon

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    we stole him from the Dodgers?????? what????
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    People would like Drew a lot more if he scowled when he struck out and punched walls like a moron.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Drew looks just about finished at this point. Over the years, he has had his moments , but probably was not much more than an average player, all in all. Was he worth the money?  No, but how many players really are?  In my opinion, if Theo had it to do over, he would not.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Narrowing the field to 9 players makes the comparison somewhat less meaningful.

    When you widen the parameters from 2007, Drew has the 8th best WAR behind Suzuki, Werth, Pence, Markakis, Bautista, Rios, and Swisher.

    He is slightly ahead of Ludwick, Ethier, Ordonez, Hart, and Abreu.

    He places 6th in OPS (.835), just ahead of J. Dye, and Swisher.

    On fangraphs, I "narrowed" the sample size to exactly 30 RF'ers:
    (I think they include other OF'er who played some RF as well as other OF positions and 1800+ total PAs)
    Drew is 10th in OPS.
    10th in wOBA
    10th in WAR
    13th in HRs
    10th in wRC+ (118), however he is just 1 point ahead of 5 others.
    He is 2 pts ahead of Brad Hawpe!
    He is 3 points ahead of 2 others.

    Judge for yourself.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    moonslav and others fully behind Peter Abraham and J.D. Drew--

    I peaked at the espn player stats, rightfielders only, for the four season, 2007 thru 2011. 

    Among all MLB rightfielders (the thread title says, "among the best in baseball"),
    J.D.'s OPS was 13th in 2007 and 2010, which ain't "among the best in baseball."  In 2009 Drew's OPS was the best among all MLB players--it was .914.  Pretty darn good.  And in 2008 he didn't play enough to be considered "qualified." 

    I will grant that his fielding has been consistently "among the best in baseball." 

    But right now I think there is a little doubt about the overall rightfielder.  Above average?  Yes.  But not elite. 

    I think the Sox picked him up after he had peaked.  That got a good player and could afford his salary, but not an elite player. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    moonslav and others fully behind Peter Abraham and J.D. Drew--

    I said "judge for yourself". Personally, I have often said JD was overpaid, but is not as bad as many posters make him out to be.

    His OBP is valuable. His fielding was much needed for our tough RF. His low RBI numbers are partially not his fault, since he is often pitched around due to weaker hitters behind him.

    The numbers I showed above put Drew in about the 12th best out of 30, and barely ahead of several others. At his pay: judge for yourself.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]Words of wisdom my friends, as I've said before J.D. Drew is the most over rated under rated player.  The enlightened fans find themselves going over the top to defend Drew because of all the hate he has received and as the starter of this thread has pointed out clearly there is no evidence to call Drew a bad player.  As a matter of fact over the past decade he has produced compared to other MLB outfielders and his salary is in line with his stats compared to the league. I love how the natural refute in the face of evidence comes down to circumstances, such as "a player striking out" or "player acting like he doesn't care"  These are B.S. excuses for not liking a player, if you hate someone you will find any reason to hate on them.......haterade is a very powerful drink.  You can go back and find countless times that EVERY player has struck out, even in big spots and if you happen to dislike that player then it will stand out in your mind even more. The next argument I love is how J.D. Drew plays the game as if he doesn't care and with no passion.  This is not only ridiculous but it's once again just a scape goat.  People look at AVG and HR's it's all about the stats not someone's demeanor if this was true....NO ONE WOULD LIKE ADRIAN GONZALEZ, who plays the game with pretty much the same attitude as Drew does.  Personally i don't want a pre-Madonna, over the top, melodramatic punk he cries and yells every time a play doesn't go his way....in my personal opinion professional athletes who keep a cool head have always tended to play better.....just look at, well, Adrain Gonzalez. 
    Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh[/QUOTE]

    Yeah. What he said.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]How's the old saying go, you can't truly appriecaite what you have until it's gone! While Abraham's did a nice job of organizing the data to support his argument. I'm sure that Epstein and Francona already knew that "Drew has been among the best RF in the AL since 2007 (even at 14M per year!). Those who know the game, understand that Drew has been an above average RF over the life of his current deal, his defense especially in Fenway, has never truly been appreciated by the casual fan. For his detractors, his inablity to hit .300 with 30 bombs which is what we thought we were getting when we stole him from the Dodgers is a the heart of thier dicontent, even his most ardent supporters know the reality is that Drew has underperformed to expectations with the bat since arriving in Boston. His personna nongrata doesn't help him with the fans, remember he replaced the popular oft injured former #1 pick the infamous Trot "the original dirt dog" Nixon
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    i'm waiting for the punch-line.
    btw, you're not another alias for cream-puff abraham are you?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]moonslav and others fully behind Peter Abraham and J.D. Drew-- I said "judge for yourself". Personally, I have often said JD was overpaid, but is not as bad as many posters make him out to be. His OBP is valuable. His fielding was much needed for our tough RF. His low RBI numbers are partially not his fault, since he is often pitched around due to weaker hitters behind him. The numbers I showed above put Drew in about the 12th best out of 30, and barely ahead of several others. At his pay: judge for yourself.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    "weaker hitters behind him."

    if they were weaker than nancy, then they are not hitters, they are batters.
    anyone who carries a bat to the plate is a batter; to be a hitter, you have to earn it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]People would like Drew a lot more if he scowled when he struck out and punched walls like a moron.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    people would like him a lot more if he left.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Drew's demeanor is fine with me.  He doesn't have to shout and scream or jump around or whatever.  Detached is fine because I believe he is focused when he is on the field. 

    But please don't tell me he is like AGon.  AGon actually smiles now and then and of course chats with whoever is on first.  On the bench he loves talking about what's happening on the field and in the game--or whatever.  I have no memories of Ted Williams when he was playing, but know that after he retired he loves talking about baseball, and he turned out to be a pretty decent manager for the Senators and then the Rangers, which is rare in a superstar. 

    I cannot image Drew ever managing or even talking about the game.  And that is fine with me because I don't doubt his focus or ability to play (his hitting this year notwithstanding).

    Despite Abraham's stats, I don't think Drew has been worth the $14M a year, but also think that is almost irrelevant because the Sox could afford him. 

    Someone else, I forget who, made a very good observation.  These days there aren't a lot of great hitting outfielders.  The Sox and Yankees are the two best hitting/scoring lineups in MLB and between have one great-hitting outfielder, Granderson in what is clearly a career year.  Ellsbury is terrific too, but not quite in Granderson's category.  Meanwhile the infielders on both teams are strong at the corners and at 2B, with only SS not so strong (at hitting). 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]we stole him from the Dodgers?????? what????
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    JD opted out of his deal in LA and then signed with the Sox. Many in the game felt as though the Sox enticed him to opt out...Hence the reference "stole him"...it was meant to be "tounge in cheek".
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : i'm waiting for the punch-line. btw, you're not another alias for cream-puff abraham are you?
    Posted by --the--yazzer[/QUOTE]

    I think my MO over the years has always been to represent things through my own perspective and not be swayed by bias reporting or homerism...No need for a punch line...Unless you go down the "I'd rather have, had Nixon playing right"....I've long been a supporter of Drew's, but, I can also see why he has his share of detractors. He's been a solid club house guy, a better than we give him credit for all around player, a pro's pro if you will, alibiet oft injured...Some could argue (and many do just that), that he's over paid and at the heart of thier distain is he's not the middle of the order impact bat we thought we were getting and spends too much time nursing injuries and doesn't appear to be passionate ball player AKA a Dirt Dog...We all know if he was a hack in the outfield, an @$$ in the clubhouse, but hit .300 with 30 bombs, his detractors all would be hailing him as a hall of famer...How's that for a punch line...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : JD opted out of his deal in LA and then signed with the Sox. Many in the game felt as though the Sox enticed him to opt out...Hence the reference "stole him"...it was meant to be "tounge in cheek".
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    ty 4 clarifying that...im not a Drew basher, never have been but he looks like a man thinking about his future as a recreational fisherman and not a mlb ballplayer
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]Why do the stats SEEM to support his argument? Because baseball simply does not have the talented outfielders of years past. No Yastrzemskis, Reggie Jacksons,Clementes, Bonds, Frank Robinsons, Al Kalines, etc. This particular era of MLB seems to have many, many more talented infielders than outfielders. If Drew played in 1972, it is doubful he would be a starter on any team....well maybe AAA.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    First, if there is a lack of quality OF'ers, it just proves the point that there wasn't really a better option in RF since 2007. Obviously, NO ON IS DEFENDING HOW HE IS HITTING THIS YEAR.

    But your 1972 post shows a little bit lack of knowledge of baseball history.

    Here are the starting RF'ers in 1972 and their OPS:

    Billy Williams 1.005
    Jim Wynn .860
    Al Kaline .849
    Reggie Smith .840
    Roberto Clemente .835 

    Rusty Staub .824
    Jose Cardenal .810
    Richie Scheinblum .800
    Frank Robinson .795
    Ron Fairly .779
    Bobby Bonds .772
    Bernie Carbo .759
    Cesar Geronimo .756
    Roger Freed .740
    Joe Lahoud .730
    Pat Kelly .723
    Johnny Callison .691
    Mike Lum .673
    Buddy Bell.672
    Merv Rettenmund .663
    Cesar Tovar .663
    Angel Mangual .649
    Leroy Stanton .688
    Ted Ford .680
    Cito Gaston .674

    Umm... It seems to be starting Drew over most of these guys is a no-brainer.

    Obviously, Drew's OPS this year would be at the bottom. But the point of the the thread is if Drew was productive since he's been here and his .835 OPS would be near the top.

     
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