Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Absolutely they both should be on the roster but Cherrington has player contract "control" issues with Iggy until June. Be interesting who wins this one Mgr. or GM. If Phylly needs Aviles make them take Shopach also in return for a relief pitcher which frees up the current concern of Bard or Aceves starting leaving the bullpen thin. No Iggy at short and the left side of the infield looks pitiful range wise
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster:
    Absolutely they both should be on the roster but Cherrington has player contract "control" issues with Iggy until June. Be interesting who wins this one Mgr. or GM. If Phylly needs Aviles make them take Shopach also in return for a relief pitcher which frees up the current concern of Bard or Aceves starting leaving the bullpen thin. No Iggy at short and the left side of the infield looks pitiful range wise
    Posted by upperco1


    Valentine's primarily responsibility is to focus on 2012;  Cherrington has to take a longer view.

    Even if we assume that both youngsters will become great players, are they really that much of an upgrade over the next 2-3 months, especially Lavarnway?
    I don't think they are.

    Is 2-3 months of Lavarnway rather than Salty worth 15-20 million dollars?  Because that's the reality if Lav develops as we all hope he will.  If the Sox had nobody else to catch it would be a more difficult decision, but the platoon of Salty/Shopp should be good enough, at least for a couple of months while Lav gets more development time catching and the Sox might save enough money to pay the equivalent of an Ellsbury, or a Lester, in 2018.

    It's a similar argument to the Patriots trading their extra 1st round draft pick to gain an extra pick.  The overall benefit to the organisation is served by taking the long term view.

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster:
    [Cherrington has to take a longer view. Even if we assume that both youngsters will become great players, are they really that much of an upgrade over the next 2-3 months, especially Lavarnway? I don't think they are. Is 2-3 months of Lavarnway rather than Salty worth 15-20 million dollars?  Because that's the reality if Lav develops as we all hope he will.  If the Sox had nobody else to catch it would be a more difficult decision, but the platoon of Salty/Shopp should be good enough, at least for a couple of months while Lav gets more development time catching and the Sox might save enough money to pay the equivalent of an Ellsbury, or a Lester, in 2018.Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    Well said!

    Are they willing to put Salty back in AAA?  I highly doubt it, just like making Bard a set-up man again egos are at play here and irrevocable damage can be done.  The current depth is great, and we just had 2 seasons derailed by a lack of it.  There isn't a 4th catcher that is even close to MLB ready.   Therefore trading Shoppach puts the team thin at catcher.

    Lava is the man come July 1st.


    I think Abraham is a light weight and here is some more evidence IMO.

    * By the time the season is done, bet you Mike Aviles has started 20 games in right field. If Jose Iglesias can't crack the lineup by the All-Star break, they have to start questioning the $8 million they dropped on him. Here's thinking he does and Aviles plays a lot of right.

    If Aviles plays well and Iglesias isn't the full time starter until next Spring, is the $8m in question?   Jose will turn 23, yes 23 in January! I'm not worried about the $8m if he starts from 23 yo to 30 yo or so.

    * Is there some compelling reason Kelly Shoppach is the backup catcher instead of Ryan Lavarnway? Perhaps Lavarnway needs a little polish, but he's a serviceable catcher and a very dangerous hitter.

    How can this issue be brought up without addressing depth?  Catchers get hurt! 

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    So you guys are in favor of playing catch up after the All Star break I take it. With the current pitching staff keep track of how many games are lost, extra batters faced, and so on with a below average left side infield. Hope you're right.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    it would be folly to sit two young exciting players this season for journeymen players...they need to be not only on the rosters but starting...aviles/punto/macdonald (is he still on the roster?) shoppach???? this team needed new blood badly - and not just the manager
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    This article is idiotic.  There isn't even a coherent argument - is Cafardo advocating that Lavarnway replace Shoppach or Salty, because he mentions both scenarios.  If he's advocating replacing Salty, then you have two right-handed catchers, one of whom simply cannot hit right-handed pitching.  If he's advocating replacing Shoppach, then he's negating his argument for starting Iglesias - how can you argue that the pitching staff wants Iglesias in the game, but doesn't mind chucking a veteran catcher in favor of a rookie who has never caught more than 66 games in the minor leagues?  

    Hey Boston Globe - how can I get paid for vomiting words onto a page?
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster:
    So you guys are in favor of playing catch up after the All Star break I take it. With the current pitching staff keep track of how many games are lost, extra batters faced, and so on with a below average left side infield. Hope you're right.
    Posted by upperco1


    Are you saying that the Sox should turn their pitching staff over to a catcher who has caught about 200 professional games, most of them under AAA, and by all accounts not very well?  Not to mention he's never caught more than 66 games in a season and that was in 2009....IN SINGLE A BALL!

    I think there is a reasonable argument to start Iglesias from the start, though I don't agree with it.  But the Lavarnway argument makes no sense to me.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    There won't be enough roster spots to carry both guys.  One of them will make it.  I think there's more of a neeed to carry an extra SS than an extra Catcher.  But we will see Ryan at some point during the season and hopefully he'll remain with the team moving forward....
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    The fact that Cafardo agrees with my position makes me want to re-evaluate everything I think.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    My only gripe with the article is when he said Iggy will hit better than people think. That might be more wishful thinking. The Sox IMO made a mistake by starting him in Triple A last year. After being injured in 2010 and playing basically half the season, he should have started the season in Double-A before being moved up. They moved him up too fast and he was overmatched. They shouldn't make the same mistake.

    This year he should start the year in Triple A. He doesn't have to spend the entire year. But give a month or two, see where he's at. I think if they start him in the majors to start the year, he'll continue to struggle at the plate and become nothing more than a defensive specialist who bounces around for his glove, starts occassionally but never gets 500 at-bats in a season.

    If he really is the prospect we're being told he is, giving him another year to develop might be the best for everyone in the long run. He's still just 22. 

    If they make him the starter on opening day, I hope I'm wrong and his hitting develops over time. 

    I'd bring Lavarnway up this year and I would certainly put that minor league outfielder -- forget the name -- on the fast track.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    ... he should have started the season in Double-A before being moved up. 

    I disagree. Iggy saw better pitching in AAA and had a better chance to improve his eye. It's not like the difference between AAA and AA is all that much anyways. 

    Also, Iggy did play some organized ball in Cuba as well before coming here.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster:
    ... he should have started the season in Double-A before being moved up.  I disagree. Iggy saw better pitching in AAA and had a better chance to improve his eye. It's not like the difference between AAA and AA is all that much anyways.  Also, Iggy did play some organized ball in Cuba as well before coming here.
    Posted by moonslav59


    It didn't help. He should have gotten the rest of at-bats in Double-A that he missed, then moved up during the season. Yeah he played in Cuba. But even if the competition was better, it's still the same as if he played a couple of years in college before going pro.

    All I'm saying is that the Sox should be cautious about the short-term benefit of better defense at SS at the expense of the long-term future of the player. The Sox can get by in the short-term with Aviles and Punto at SS.

    Now if Iggy can come in and hit .235, I'll take that with the stellar defene and hope that he can develop. Many players do. In fact, I would expect that. But if he's struggle to hit .180, then it's not worth it, especially since it could affect his defense.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    In response to "Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster":
    The fact that Cafardo agrees with my position makes me want to re-evaluate everything I think. Posted by moonslav59
    I was going to post something, but nothing can sum it all up better than this statement...I feel the same way.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Absolutely Yes! Lavarnway is a monster hitter and you can't send him down! For what? Cherington is a pure idiot who can't read talent, Bobby V know Ben is clueles. Same for Iglesias, pure talent needs to play every day now in the bigs. Cherington couldn't run a little league team!
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Boston Globe columnist Nick Cafardo refers to Ryan Lavarnway as a "Yale graduate."

    Lavarnway no doubt is intelligent, but does he hold a Yale degree?

    Last August the Yale Daily News reported:

    "Boston drafted the philosophy major 202nd overall in the sixth round of the 2008 MLB entry draft, and Lavarnway left Yale before graduating in order to pursue a professional baseball career."

    http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/aug/21/boola-boola-lavarnway-09-makes-major-league-baseba/
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    All I'm saying is that the Sox should be cautious about the short-term benefit of better defense at SS at the expense of the long-term future of the player. The Sox can get by in the short-term with Aviles and Punto at SS.

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've never been one to think playing at AA vs AAA shows more caution. The games the same, except the pitching is better and less wild in AAA, which in my mind is better for a player to regain or rehab.

    As for the here and now, I don't think playing Iggy everyday at the MLB will hamper his "future" any more or lessthan at AAA. He should play nearly everyday. I don't fall for the lost confidence of rookie's called up too son argument, but I suppose I could be wrong. 

    In short, to me, it's not about ruining or slowing Iggy's development by making him the MLB FT SS now. The only thing that deals with his future is the possibility of getting an extra year of control if we keep him down in AAA for 3 months. This is a valid argument, and I am willing to sacrifice some things in the now for something we won't see for several years from now, but I don't think this is one of those cases.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Shoppach is a salami and there was no reason for signing this guy -  i would rather have had Veritek - he couldve played every ten games and been a coach/mentor to salty/Lava....
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Pretty obvious that saving a few dollars and holding Iglesias back for months of this season is laughable for a near quarter of a billion dollar a year payroll. Pretty obvious to get rid of Wastefield and Varitek, and it's pretty obvious that Lavarnway and Iglesias will be needed to help this team from opening day on.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Absolutely they should. Give these young talents a chance to shine and they will.

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster:
    Absolutely they should. Give these young talents a chance to shine and they will.
    Posted by antiqueman1

    I agree, and even if they do not "shine" they should be better than the alternatives.

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

    Georom, you and one other poster is the near total extent of those that would rather have washed up Varitek over Shop. Shops can defend well, and is a good backup profile. Varitek was weak in every aspect of the position. If there was a market for Varitek he would not have retired. Do the math.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Cafardo?:Lavarnway and Iglesias should be on the final 25-man roster

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