Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fir.eballer58. Show fir.eballer58's posts

    Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red Sox

    by Jim Bowden/ESPN
    David Ortiz, 35, is the face of the Boston Red Sox, and he’s off to an uncharacteristically fast start, hitting .326/.394/.612/1.006 with 17 doubles, 15 home runs, 36 RBIs and an impressive 25-26 BB/K ratio. He is leading the Red Sox once again and giving the Fenway faithful hopes of another world championship.

    Big Papi is eligible for free agency at season’s end, and the Red Sox should take care of him now. Give him a two-year extension at $15 million per year -- $30 million guaranteed, with no incentives, no awards, but plenty of respect.

    The acquisitions of Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford have re-invigorated Ortiz. He has more protection in the lineup than he’s had since he and Manny Ramirez brought a second World Series trophy back to Fenway Park in 2007. Ortiz is also still learning, even at age 35. Taking batting practice and watching nightly the way Gonzalez and Crawford bang the outside pitch the other way has been contagious for him. He’s starting to do the same, and the Ortiz over-shift is no longer as effective.

    From a former general manager's perspective, there are several factors that should be considered before offering Ortiz an extension:

    1. Length and consistency of career
    Ortiz has played in 145 games six of the past seven years, including the past two seasons. He has driven in 100 runs or more in six of the past eight years, including 102 last year. This year's OPS is above his career average (.923). He doesn’t get hurt, and he stays consistent. His worst offensive year since joining the Red Sox in 2003 was the year he hit .238, but he still managed to belt out 28 home runs and drive in 99.

    2. Injury risk
    Since 2004, Ortiz has only been on the disabled list once, and that was in 2008. He doesn’t play a position in the field, so as a full-time DH, the risk of injury is the least of any position in baseball.

    3. Production curve
    Big Papi’s prime was from 2004-06, when he averaged 47 home runs, 111 RBIs and an OPS of 1.047. From 2007-10, he averaged 30 home runs and 101 RBIs and an OPS of .909. This year, he’s on pace to have his best statistical season since 2007. Bottom line: There are no signs of production decline since the 2007 season.

    4. Leadership
    He’s one of the leaders in the Red Sox clubhouse. Every player I’ve known who has played with Ortiz raves about him. He has a tremendous amount of baseball experience and wisdom and is always sharing it with his teammates. He is the type of leader who wants to help his teammates get better, not just himself.

    5. Bat speed/hand–eye coordination
    Bat speed is always one of the first indicators that a player is about to start his decline. Ortiz's bat speed is still there, the same as it was when he helped the Red Sox win a World Series in 2007. His hand-eye coordination and pitch recognition have stayed the same. There are no mechanical or physical issues with his swing or approach at the plate that show a player going backwards.

    6. Passion
    This is a very important factor in evaluating older players and the risk of giving them multi-year contracts. Do they still have the passion to win championships, to ride the buses, fly on the planes, check in and check out of hotels, to play the grueling schedule? Ortiz still has the passion. Look no further than earlier this week, when Yankee rookie pitcher Hector Noesi threw Ortiz a pitch inside and knocked him off the plate. Next pitch? Home run to right field. Next movement? Bat flip and a stare into the Yankees' dugout. That's passion. The next night, he doubled and shot another aggressive look toward the Yankees' dugout. The fire is still in his belly.

    7. Free agent risk
    There shouldn’t be much risk of Ortiz leaving because he wants to finish his career with the Red Sox. However, he once put on a New York Yankees hat for an ESPN TV advertisement, much to the dismay of the team’s mascot and thousands of Red Sox fans. Plus, Theo Epstein might have made a call on Mariano Rivera and/or Derek Jeter last November. Brian Cashman might make a call on Big Papi after Jorge Posada steps aside this winter. That's a risk the Red Sox don’t need to take.

    8. Cost and length of contract
    The Red Sox have taken care of Ortiz for a long time. He’s done the same for them. Boston will have paid him close to $83 million since 2003. He will have hit approximately 325 home runs while driving in over 1,000 runs in a Red Sox uniform. It's a perfect marriage. In baseball, you never know when a player is going to decline. Sometimes, it takes a few years and sometimes a hitter’s career ends unexpectedly on a hot summer night. There is always risk. Ortiz deserves more than a one-year deal. He should ask for three years and compromise at two. He should also get a raise from $13 million to $15 million. He’s earned it.

    In the final analysis, the Red Sox should extend Big Papi!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nickarcese. Show nickarcese's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    concurr but closer to 24 mil for 2, the going rate is 7 mil per for DH, 20-24 would be very much above market
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mudbugger. Show mudbugger's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    2 years for $20 million.  And that is being generous when the market is dictating $6-8 million per yer for a DH.

    and you could throw in a club option for a 3rd year if he remains status quo in his production.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I thought 30 was quite high when I read this article yesterday. I think nickarcese probably has the numbers about right, given what Big Papi has meant to this club. I think a mutual option for a third year should be included as well.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    Wait. 
    Offer the 30 for 3 years.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I agree with the posters.  anything more than $24M/2 at age 36/37 is too much.  There are reasons to keep him, but remember he was at .854 over the three previous seasons.  And we have a substantial advantage in FA.  All we need to do is to offer him arb.  How much of a raise will he get over his $12.5M?  Even if they gave him $14M, it'll be a lot better than $30M/2.  And if he declines, we get two picks, and we'll still get a good DH with the $12.5M his departure would free up.

    Not seeing much downside here.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    ...and the Yankess get Papi. Keeping him from the Yanks is nearly worth $30M in and of itself.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from REBEL. Show REBEL's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    In Response to Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]by Jim Bowden/ESPN David Ortiz , 35, is the face of the Boston Red Sox , and he’s off to an uncharacteristically fast start, hitting .326/.394/.612/1.006 with 17 doubles, 15 home runs, 36 RBIs and an impressive 25-26 BB/K ratio. He is leading the Red Sox once again and giving the Fenway faithful hopes of another world championship. Big Papi is eligible for free agency at season’s end, and the Red Sox should take care of him now. Give him a two-year extension at $15 million per year -- $30 million guaranteed, with no incentives, no awards, but plenty of respect. The acquisitions of Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford have re-invigorated Ortiz. He has more protection in the lineup than he’s had since he and Manny Ramirez brought a second World Series trophy back to Fenway Park in 2007. Ortiz is also still learning, even at age 35. Taking batting practice and watching nightly the way Gonzalez and Crawford bang the outside pitch the other way has been contagious for him. He’s starting to do the same, and the Ortiz over-shift is no longer as effective. From a former general manager's perspective, there are several factors that should be considered before offering Ortiz an extension: 1. Length and consistency of career Ortiz has played in 145 games six of the past seven years, including the past two seasons. He has driven in 100 runs or more in six of the past eight years, including 102 last year. This year's OPS is above his career average (.923). He doesn’t get hurt, and he stays consistent. His worst offensive year since joining the Red Sox in 2003 was the year he hit .238, but he still managed to belt out 28 home runs and drive in 99. 2. Injury risk Since 2004, Ortiz has only been on the disabled list once, and that was in 2008. He doesn’t play a position in the field, so as a full-time DH, the risk of injury is the least of any position in baseball. 3. Production curve Big Papi’s prime was from 2004-06, when he averaged 47 home runs, 111 RBIs and an OPS of 1.047. From 2007-10, he averaged 30 home runs and 101 RBIs and an OPS of .909. This year, he’s on pace to have his best statistical season since 2007. Bottom line: There are no signs of production decline since the 2007 season. 4. Leadership He’s one of the leaders in the Red Sox clubhouse. Every player I’ve known who has played with Ortiz raves about him. He has a tremendous amount of baseball experience and wisdom and is always sharing it with his teammates. He is the type of leader who wants to help his teammates get better, not just himself. 5. Bat speed/hand–eye coordination Bat speed is always one of the first indicators that a player is about to start his decline. Ortiz's bat speed is still there, the same as it was when he helped the Red Sox win a World Series in 2007. His hand-eye coordination and pitch recognition have stayed the same. There are no mechanical or physical issues with his swing or approach at the plate that show a player going backwards. 6. Passion This is a very important factor in evaluating older players and the risk of giving them multi-year contracts. Do they still have the passion to win championships, to ride the buses, fly on the planes, check in and check out of hotels, to play the grueling schedule? Ortiz still has the passion. Look no further than earlier this week, when Yankee rookie pitcher Hector Noesi threw Ortiz a pitch inside and knocked him off the plate. Next pitch? Home run to right field. Next movement? Bat flip and a stare into the Yankees' dugout. That's passion. The next night, he doubled and shot another aggressive look toward the Yankees' dugout. The fire is still in his belly. 7. Free agent risk There shouldn’t be much risk of Ortiz leaving because he wants to finish his career with the Red Sox. However, he once put on a New York Yankees hat for an ESPN TV advertisement, much to the dismay of the team’s mascot and thousands of Red Sox fans. Plus, Theo Epstein might have made a call on Mariano Rivera and/or Derek Jeter last November. Brian Cashman might make a call on Big Papi after Jorge Posada steps aside this winter. That's a risk the Red Sox don’t need to take. 8. Cost and length of contract The Red Sox have taken care of Ortiz for a long time. He’s done the same for them. Boston will have paid him close to $83 million since 2003. He will have hit approximately 325 home runs while driving in over 1,000 runs in a Red Sox uniform. It's a perfect marriage. In baseball, you never know when a player is going to decline. Sometimes, it takes a few years and sometimes a hitter’s career ends unexpectedly on a hot summer night. There is always risk. Ortiz deserves more than a one-year deal. He should ask for three years and compromise at two. He should also get a raise from $13 million to $15 million. He’s earned it. In the final analysis, the Red Sox should extend Big Papi!
    Posted by fir.eballer58[/QUOTE]
    A TWO YEAR $22 MILLION IS ABOUT RIGHT!  12 AND 10!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

       Not going to happen this will be Papi's last chance to cash in and will not settle for a two year deal and somebody 'hello Yankees' will give him a four year deal
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    As of right now....2 years at what hes getting now with incentives, plus option for 3rd..The sox have the $$ and hes by far the best DH this year..Talk to me in september though...Things can change, although it doesnt look like it from where Im sitting..
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    Two at 12.5, with the remainder of the 30 to me.  Option for third year, mutual.

    Darn it Moon  - you had to go and say it.  OK.  30 to Papi.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I'll be honest.  I think he gets 2 years/$25... somewhere in the middle there.  The Yankees may try to get him but then again, they have Montero waiting in the wings and it wouldn't really make sense for them to sign him.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I agree with Yaz! as usual.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

     I love Papi and he is tremendous so far in '11 BUT a 1 year at $ 8.5  million contract, and a club option for year 2 is more in line.  This guy turns 36 in November.  He likely will not produce at this level at nearly 38 years old. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I agree with moon. Keeping Papi from the Yankees is a key priority.

    Papi must salivate at the thought of playing 81 games hitting to a short fence in RF  with a strong tail wind off the Harlem River.

    And so do the Yankees.

    Pay him the $30 mil.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    Ortiz should sign with the Yankees just to leave the bigotry of most Red Sox fans. The abuse he took in 2009 and 2010 was brutal! He's done more for the Red Sox than Wastefield has done in his entire life, yet most Red Sox fans are delighted that a 5 plus ERA since the last half of 2009 is still waddling like fat duck out there.

    Ortiz should not be signed to a multi-year contract at this stage. The Red Sox bid plus one on any base offers, and if the Yankees offered 2 years, offer the 2nd year in a lifetime services contract payable over a longer period of time. If he turns that down, best wished and thanks for all he has done for the Red Sox. Despite his current blistering 2011 partial year start, he is in the final stage of his career. Year to year, and lifetime services to match any team that puts up a 2nd year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tombirner. Show tombirner's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Ortiz should sign with the Yankees just to leave the bigotry of most Red Sox fans. The abuse he took in 2009 and 2010 was brutal! He's done more for the Red Sox than Wastefield has done in his entire life, yet most Red Sox fans are delighted that a 5 plus ERA since the last half of 2009 is still waddling like fat duck out there. Ortiz should not be signed to a multi-year contract at this stage. The Red Sox bid plus one on any base offers, and if the Yankees offered 2 years, offer the 2nd year in a lifetime services contract payable over a longer period of time. If he turns that down, best wished and thanks for all he has done for the Red Sox. Despite his current blistering 2011 partial year start, he is in the final stage of his career. Year to year, and lifetime services to match any team that puts up a 2nd year.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    Ortiz is arguably the most beloved athlete in the history of Boston sports. I almost never post here, but I had to just to say I honestly wonder if you aren't mentally ill, a troll, some sort of eccentric genius, or some combination of the three, with your Ellsbury/Lowrie/Wakefield obsession. You fascinate me.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    You guys want to anti-up 30 million for a 35 year old DH?  lol!  LOL! Hahahahahahahhahahahaha!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    No tombirner Louie Tiant was as much beloved, Boomer Scott was loved, Wade Boggs was an all-time favorite, and Roger Clemens was at one time the most favorite Red Sox player since Yaz.... AND THEY ALL PLAYED FOR THE YANKEES!

    Man, 101 Red Sox and you all fail.... I could school you all.  The purpose is to (if the Yankees try to sign Ortiz) let the Yankees get stuck with Ortiz for 3 years... and if they don't try than the RS should stick to one year deals. 

    Believe me if the money is right Ortiz will leave your sentimental azzes just like Tiant, and Boggs.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I think you give him 1 year guaranteed, with 2 club options for the next 2 years, that can switch to guaranteed based on AB's or final OBP or something.  Basically if he keeps producing, he keeps playing.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    I honestly thought this was Papi's last year here, and liked the ideal of a younger, positional DH.  

    It is getting really hard to ignore Ortiz's numbers this season however, I know he's going to be 36 next year and age is going to eventually catch up with him...but Maybe Gonzo in the lineup has really helped him out.  Last year it looked like he couldn't keep up with a fastball, this year he looks dangerous again. 

    In the end I think they can work something out that benefits both teams, 2/24 sounds about right to me. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Ortiz should sign with the Yankees just to leave the bigotry of most Red Sox fans. The abuse he took in 2009 and 2010 was brutal! He's done more for the Red Sox than Wastefield has done in his entire life, yet most Red Sox fans are delighted that a 5 plus ERA since the last half of 2009 is still waddling like fat duck out there. Ortiz should not be signed to a multi-year contract at this stage. The Red Sox bid plus one on any base offers, and if the Yankees offered 2 years, offer the 2nd year in a lifetime services contract payable over a longer period of time. If he turns that down, best wished and thanks for all he has done for the Red Sox. Despite his current blistering 2011 partial year start, he is in the final stage of his career. Year to year, and lifetime services to match any team that puts up a 2nd year.
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]
    You lost the right to call anyone a bigot when you 1) said Ellsbury would look good in a Cleveland Indian uniform, 2) were upset the Indians moved away from Chief Wahoo to a C on their caps.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    the way papi is hitting, adding 2 years can be justified
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Jim Bowden/ESPN:he would pursue a two-year, $30MM extension with David Ortiz if he were running the Red...

    $30M for two years is too much, but he does look great right now.

    He bats 5th and is not very well protected in the lineup.  When Manny was here, Ortiz batted 3d and Manny 4th--now that's protection. 

     

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