Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender?

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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Can you pinpoint for me where Rosenthall made that comment "blow past the luxury tax threshhold"? What I read is that the Sox are in a tough situation / box and need to decide among host of different actions in order to improve themselves.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Absolutely. They are going to have to.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Well, the Yankees didn't go that route last year since they decided to do some dumpster diving and came up with Colon and Garcia. Perhaps they grew tired of paying the 40 percent luxury tax. If you were a Yankee fan, would you had been upset with that strategy? It turns out that his moves were a stroke of genius. Hats off to a GM for doing it the hard way instead of telling the owner to run off to the bank.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    without a doubt i agree with rosenthal. the sox have had 2 3rd places finishes in a row. that is unacceptable for a team with some of the highest ticket prices and highest revenue streams. pay the luxury tax in order to win. the fans deserve it.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Why can't the whiners decide if :

    The onus is on Lucchino
    Theo wanting to leave
    Tito's lack of discipline
    Terrible starting pitching in September
    Poor conditioning, poor attitudes
    A teamwide collapse in September
    Blown saves by Papelbon and Bard down the stretch
    Fried Chicken
    Bud Light
    Video Games
    Liverpool Futbal
    The poor start last April
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender? : LMAO don't you feel even more foolish now consider yourself OWNED by 2004Idiots
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    Lucchino needs the Sox to win; this is on him now. And to win, the Sox just might need to blow past the luxury-tax threshold, painful as the implications might be."



    Just MIGHT need to and just MIGHT not need to. Read the entire article and see the many options that are presented. Half of the readers will react like 2004Idiots did and others will see other more realistic options. The Thread title seemed editorial to me while the referenced article by Rosenthall was not. Rosenthall was realistic and did a great job at listing many other options.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender?:
    [QUOTE]without a doubt i agree with rosenthal. the sox have had 2 3rd places finishes in a row. that is unacceptable for a team with some of the highest ticket prices and highest revenue streams. pay the luxury tax in order to win. the fans deserve it.
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    Yankee revenue was $427 mil. in 2010. Red Sox revenues were $272 mil. Yankees. Yanks had 40% more revenue or $155 mil. more than Boston. That is why they can afford a payroll that exceeds $204 mil. and can afford to go after Darvish this winter. By the way, the Red Sox had an operating deficit in 2010. They are not as wealthy as your agenda wishes them to be.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    The Sox FO will have to do whatever is necessary to point the club in the direction they wish to go.  Add a couple of reliable starters and a RF hitter or stand pat, don't exceed the cap and hope for the best next year and call it a "Theo bridge year" if things don't work out and the Sox finish 3rd or maybe even 4th if the Jays retool this year.  The Sox have dug a hole that is hard to see out of right now.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    CBA isn't determined until year end, and it is prorated on player costs that are traded. The CBA talk is nonsense as far as going over 10 to 20M, as if a few million in tax is reason to ride on one flat tire.  
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Of course they don't need to do that if all they hope to do is stagger into the playoffs with no real chance to win it all, like some here would apparently be ok with. But real fans want a true chance for a ring, and that requires a closer, starter, and probably 2 good relievers. This team is too expensive and good to not provide the final pieces as myself and others have been saying all along, and there are no magic wands out there kids. Look, most years you stay well under the cap. Some years, if several prospects emerge, you can even be many dozens of millions under it. But some years, such as those when 2 starters are out with Tommy John surgery and some poor spending choises remain on the books, you gotta pay. One thing should be understood by all here : this town doesn't do "bridge years". To whom much is given, much is required. Give this team what it needs to win a ring each and every year, or you will be called on it. Period.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    It's easy to play around with other people's money.

    I'd love for Henry to Ok going over the threshold, but would certainly understand if he told Ben to stay near it. While mistakes were made on who we spent recent massive outlays on, that doesn't change the fact that henry did spend big the last 2 years. I hesitate to ask him to do it every year. We have a great foundation of players. We can fill the open high need slots in a cost effective way and still be competitive. Favorites? Not likely, but very competitive, yes.

    For argument's sake, let's say we go to $185M. Assuming Bard and Aceves will be our 4/5 starters and after the arbs, we should be at about $175M, so that leaves about $10M to fill these 2 vital slots:

    Closer: _________
    Set-up: ________

    and these less vital slots (possible in-house choices):

    RF  (Reddick or Kalish & DMac)
    RP3 (Jenks, Morales, Albers, Atchison, Doubront, Bowden...)
    SP6 (Tazawa, Doubront, Weiland, Wilson, Ranaudo...)
    C2  (Lavarnway, Exposito...)

     
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Obama is doing 4 bridge years. Much taxpayer money has been given, but zero on the much part.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender?:
    [QUOTE]The Sox FO will have to do whatever is necessary to point the club in the direction they wish to go.  Add a couple of reliable starters and a RF hitter or stand pat, don't exceed the cap and hope for the best next year and call it a "Theo bridge year" if things don't work out and the Sox finish 3rd or maybe even 4th if the Jays retool this year.  The Sox have dug a hole that is hard to see out of right now.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    They certainly made an attempt at that last winter in signing Crawford and Gonzalez. It is unrealistic to expect ownership to win the FA sweepstakes year after year - only the Yankees have that track record. It didn't result in a WS Championship that many spoiled fans felt entitled to. Other teams have long term FA contracts go sour on them also. Somehow many on this forum are blind to that fact. Myopia.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    The obvious temptation is to swing deals for low salaried but proven youngsters, but the cost in prospects and net financial damage to the club long term makes this cost prohibitive, IMO. It's actually cheaper to just take the medicine now (higher payroll and luxury tax hit), than to clean out our farm system on middle of the road players who may not be the real deal. Top tiered prospects are for two things only: joing the big club or trading for studs. We are a large market team and need to remember our role in the baseball universe. You never wanna mess with the flux capacitor, or force, or whatever you kids are calling it nowadays...





    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender?:
    [QUOTE]It's easy to play around with other people's money. I'd love for Henry to Ok going over the threshold, but would certainly understand if he told Ben to stay near it. While mistakes were made on who we spent recent massive outlays on, that doesn't change the fact that henry did spend big the last 2 years. I hesitate to ask him to do it every year. We have a great foundation of players. We can fill the open high need slots in a cost effective way and still be competitive. Favorites? Not likely, but very competitive, yes. For argument's sake, let's say we go to $185M. Assuming Bard and Aceves will be our 4/5 starters and after the arbs, we should be at about $175M, so that leaves about $10M to fill these 2 vital slots: Closer: _________ Set-up: ________ and these less vital slots (possible in-house choices): RF  (Reddick or Kalish & DMac) RP3 (Jenks, Morales, Albers, Atchison, Doubront, Bowden...) SP6 (Tazawa, Doubront, Weiland, Wilson, Ranaudo...) C2  (Lavarnway, Exposito...)  
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Do whatever it takes man. What do I care? Ain't my money.....
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    the yankees were over the luxury tax threshold last year and have been for many years. they went cheap last year on pitchers because their payroll was already well over 200 million. sox need to up the ante or another 3rd place finish will be soon to follow.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    CC Sabathia salary is $25 mil. plus luxury tax penalty of $10 mil.

    The $10 mil. goes to subsidize the poor teams.

    But why should a Yankee fan care as long as a Steinbrenner has $$$$ to burn.

    I say that we replace John Henry with Bill Gates or Warren Buffett and have a team of All Stars all making $30 mil., after all it isn't our $$$$.

    Have a team that is so superior to the competition that we can stop being a fan in May of every year and spend the rest of the summer at the beach or sail around the globe. Now that would be Utopia.

    Our luxury tax penalties could completely subsidize two poor teams and that would be very benevolent and good for the economy. Does anyone how the email address of gates or Buffet?
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    Not if it means overspending on guys who will put larger restraints on the future of the club. 

    The RS have always been handicapped by a small staduim which means seating revenue is not what other larger market teams can bring in.

    The offense can produce good numbers with what is currently on the team.  Not many people would disagree with that.

    The team needs a healthy Buchholz to stabilize the #3 spot in the rotation.  They will need to piece meal the back end and another bullpen spot whether its a setup guy or a closer depending what they do with Bard.  And I am not sold on putting him in the rotation as it causes two holes. I am not sure he can do an entire season and give them the innings needed out of a fifth starter.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    The obvious temptation is to swing deals for low salaried but proven youngsters, but the cost in prospects and net financial damage to the club long term makes this cost prohibitive, IMO. It's actually cheaper to just take the medicine now (higher payroll and luxury tax hit), than to clean out our farm system on middle of the road players who may not be the real deal. Top tiered prospects are for two things only: joing the big club or trading for studs. We are a large market team and need to remember our role in the baseball universe. You never wanna mess with the flux capacitor, or force, or whatever you kids are calling it nowadays...

    Going over the threshold this year will raise our rate another notch, but I'm pretty sure it will happen to some extent. We had lots of draft picks this year and are pretty deep on the low farm level, so I'm not too concerned about our future. 

    I think there's a way to go over the threshold by maybe $10M or so, and end up with a solid team. I still think we will make a significant trade or two, one that might involve lower level prospects. I suggested a deal for Wandy Rodriguez, and that would allow us to keep Aceves or Bard in the pen. He is a bit costly though, so we may have to find a pitcher with lower salary. We may also trade away some salary in order to free up salary for FA signings, maybe Youk, Scutty, or Jenks or some lesser costs players that will help a little.

    Top tier salary teams often go a year here or there without spending large.


     
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    Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series conte...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ken Rosenthal-blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that's what it takes to field a World Series contender?:
    [QUOTE]Do whatever it takes man. What do I care? Ain't my money.....
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Well said Examiner. I have never seen or read about a fanbase of a large market team that is so concerned over payroll and the Luxury Tax. If Boston decided to drop payroll the 85 million annually, like the Mets are trying to do, then there should be an uproar.

    My personal opinion is that once you have invested (luxury tax cap) that much money, you want to at least give yourself a fighting chance come the post season. And if that means investing another 20 million & taking a hit on taxes, so be it. But if Sox ownership wants to stay exactly at that threshold, then that is there choice. The Red Sox as constructed right now are still one of the top 5 teams in the AL and that gives them a fighting chance in September.
     
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