Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    I think the six should do a 2/30 with ortiz. He has earned it
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Ortiz shed down some pounds and came back healthy and productive for the team.  I think he earned it just by doing that.  He deserves every rights to ask for multi year deal but I'm not sure Ben would grant him.  IMO it's up to Youk.  If Youk revives and puts up monster numbers and Papi asks multi year deal, then Ben will simply pick up Youk's option and use him as our DH in 2013.  Papi won't be taking same deal he took this year after strong year.  

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    It should have been done in November when we offered him $18 for 2yrs and he asked for $22 but wanted the deal done by Thanksgiving. I screamed on this forum and elsewhere that he should be named captain and given a 2-3yr deal, but Henry was too busy sulking and Cherington was GM in name only. Phone calls went unreturned, and eventually the whole thing became contentious. Penny wise and pound foolish! Now we've already ruined any chance for a home team discount, so I believe we'll have to let him walk elsewhere, probably for a 2yr $28 deal. Yankees? A scary possibility....
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    2 yrs / 25 million in a heartbeat.

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Nick Cafardo's column failed to address the potential luxury tax implications of an extension for David Ortiz. A slew of Red Sox players will be due raises in 2013 and a Big Papi extension could push the Sox beyond the $178 threshold for a second time*, resulting in a 30 percent surcharge. A two-year, $20 million extension could cost the Sox $13 million in 2013 alone.

    The Red Sox might be required to decide whether David Ortiz is worth 30 percent over market value (not to mention potential escalating surcharges in later years) .

    * h
    ttp://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/business/luxury-tax/
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Hill: there is a lot of money coming off the books this year (DiceK, Youk, Jenks come to mind).

    Also, there are moves that can be made to get the Sox under the threshhold.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Papi has been great and he deserves to retire as a Red Sox and a two or three year deal is completely reasonable for a 36 year old who is currently is pretty good shape, but the devil is in the $$$.....Papi would seem to want two years/30+MM....to stay at what he is making now......at that #, the Sox would have to weigh his production versus what they could get from a Lavarnway plus what they could spend the extra $$ on.....which would be best for the team....very tough choice when you may need $$$ to sign Ellsbury, or go get another top starter.

     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal:
    [QUOTE]Hill: there is a lot of money coming off the books this year (DiceK, Youk, Jenks come to mind). Also, there are moves that can be made to get the Sox under the threshhold.
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]
    The following Red Sox will be due raises (by arbitration unless specified):
    Jon Lester ($4 million), Clay Buchholz ($2 million), Dustin Pedroia ($2 million) Carl Crawford ($500,000), Jacoby Ellsbury, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Andrew Bailey, Ryan Sweeney, Alfredo Aceves, Mike Aviles, Matt Albers, Josh Bard, Andrew Miller, Franklin Morales and Rich Hill. Kevin Youkilis will be owed a $1 million raise if the Sox exercise the option or a $1 million buyout if the Sox do not.

    The Sox could save about $10.5 million on Kevin Youkilis, $8.67 million on Daisuke Matsuzaka and $6 million on Bobby Jenks.

    The 2012 Red Sox payroll for luxury tax purposes has been estimated at about $185+ million:

    http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/01/26/budget-isnt-problem-another-look-red-sox-payro

    The luxury tax threshold stands at $178 million in 2012 and again in 2013 before jumping to $189 million in 2014-16 with escalating penalties for repeat offenders.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Year to year.
    Bonus attachment if he signs on for 2014.  (if offered)

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Yes. Give him two years twenty two million. He has earned it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hmwazmo. Show hmwazmo's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    1 year plus an option year.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Ortiz has been abig part of the Sox success for many years.  He is a pro who has redeemed himself after having a terrible start to both 2010 and 2011.

    He has been all the good things that many other posters have mentioned....

    BUT, there is no way that he should get a multi year deal at this time.  Much too big of a gamble for the team to do anything but take him from year to year.  He will not accept two years at 20 million right now because he would claim that such a deal would be a pay cut (more disrespect?), and offering him two more years at what he is making now is foolish business no matter what he has accomplished in the past.

    He may claim that he is disrespected, but no other DH is making what he is making and I doubt that any DH in 2013 will make what he gets from the Sox even if they "only" offer him 10 million.

    He will not play in Boston forever and will not play major league baseball forever either.  If next winter he can find someone else to pay him more than the Sox will offer for 2013, you can bet that he will take it just like Papelbon and others have in previous winters.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    So....NOBODY seems to think this "resurgence" has ANYTHING to do with the contract year? It applies to every other athlete, but somehow, magically, not Ortiz?

    Give me a break. The last time he had financial comfort in Boston, he got off to terrible starts for nearly 2 months, 2 seasons in a row. Why did it take to THIS SEASON to show up in shape? Why did it take to THIS SEASON to start showing some "leadership"? He's whined about everything from respect, to RBI, to money, to who should be in the rotation.

    Paid for what he's done? What the F U C K was the other 100mil he's collected from the Sox for?

    If he wanted to show some leadership, last September would have been a DANDY time. But no, he sat back and did nothing but critique the manager about starting pitching choices, and then threatened that he might go to NY because he doesn't want to deal with the drama. A true LEADER wouldn't have let the drama submarine an entire season.

    I am so sick of this guy, yes he's DONE a lot of good things in Boston. And just like those things, he should be part of the PAST of the Red Sox, NOT THE FUTURE!

    THink Lavarnway could use some DH at bats? Crawford CAN swing a bat RIGHT NOW, think it might be valuable to have a spot for him to take some hacks? Think Youk could maybe use some at bats at DH in light of Middlebrooks? Then roll that into next year...and the year AFTER that? Why? They've financially painted themselves into a corner already, they might as well continue to do it with the roster as well. HEY! While they're at it, think they can find ANOTHER left handed hitting, poor throwing, fast outfielder? They need another one of those too.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal:
    [QUOTE]So....NOBODY seems to think this "resurgence" has ANYTHING to do with the contract year? It applies to every other athlete, but somehow, magically, not Ortiz? Give me a break. The last time he had financial comfort in Boston, he got off to terrible starts for nearly 2 months, 2 seasons in a row. Why did it take to THIS SEASON to show up in shape? Why did it take to THIS SEASON to start showing some "leadership"? He's whined about everything from respect, to RBI, to money, to who should be in the rotation. Paid for what he's done? What the F U C K was the other 100mil he's collected from the Sox for? If he wanted to show some leadership, last September would have been a DANDY time. But no, he sat back and did nothing but critique the manager about starting pitching choices, and then threatened that he might go to NY because he doesn't want to deal with the drama. A true LEADER wouldn't have let the drama submarine an entire season. I am so sick of this guy, yes he's DONE a lot of good things in Boston. And just like those things, he should be part of the PAST of the Red Sox, NOT THE FUTURE! THink Lavarnway could use some DH at bats? Crawford CAN swing a bat RIGHT NOW, think it might be valuable to have a spot for him to take some hacks? Think Youk could maybe use some at bats at DH in light of Middlebrooks? Then roll that into next year...and the year AFTER that? Why? They've financially painted themselves into a corner already, they might as well continue to do it with the roster as well. HEY! While they're at it, think they can find ANOTHER left handed hitting, poor throwing, fast outfielder? They need another one of those too.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]Tough take but many elements of it are fair.

    The RS seem to be more than happy to pay a premium each year to have the options at the end of the season. It is their right. Cafardo would be the first on the train to blast the RS if they did a two year $25M extension and Ortiz had a career ending injury 24 hours after signing the deal.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Why can't they just sign him year to year? You just never know what will happen. He is getting paid great money. So, I don't think he should complain one bit. Just continue to play ball.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    No, unless he wants to take a more reasonable salary.  He's already the highest paid DH.  I like Papi, but loyalty works both ways.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Agree with Joeb here.  This is not a case of him being disrespected in any way.  How? because they didn't offer a 36 year old player a multi year deal, and instead gave him almost 15 million for one year?

    Love everything Ortiz has done for the team but he just sounds like a spoiled child when he talks like this.  For that matter, so does Cafardo.
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    Mazz and felger were doing their usual bashing players today and were way off on papi..they said he just decided to hit lefties this year and get into shape...maybe they should have looks at the stat sheet where papi hit over .300 vs lefty starters in 2011..Also papi usually looks good coming into camp...I wouldve met in the middle with him last year on a 2yr 20mil deal with incentives to reach 12mil per year...Hes proved hes worth it IMO...and while Im at it, Felger saying shop sucks and all...Sorry, but even the lower tier players are still in the group of best players in the big picture..i mean, millions of guys try and make it to the show and only 7-800 a year actually do..and hes one of them...is he one of the best in MLB? absolutely not..but hes still better than most if hes playing in the show..isnt he?
     
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    Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Nick Cafardo?:Step up to the plate on Ortiz/For what he has meant, he deserves 2-year deal:
    [QUOTE]2 yrs / 25 million in a heartbeat.
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]

    I see where you're coming from, but I disagree slightly.  2/$25M is roughly what it would cost to go year to year with Ortiz, making him a qualifying offer each year (~$12.65M this year).  Doing it that way greatly reduces the risk of the deal, since there's nothing binding the Sox to make another qualifying offer after 2013.  If Ortiz wants 2 more years, it should be for no more than $22M total, which is what he was supposedly asking for last fall.  The question becomes, is Lavarnway or Salty an everyday catcher, or do they need time to rest at DH while keeping their bats in the lineup?  Yes Ortiz is special, but multiyear deals for age 37 and 38 seasons just seems like a bad idea.
     
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