Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    The question is do you agree with it?

    When was the last time Shaughnessy wrote an original article that he actually had to go out and dig for? I don't know and I usually like his writing but the article just sent me in a different direction today. It's like he's turned into a Felger clone--which has to be about the worst comparison I have ever made.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigdog1. Show bigdog1's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    No, I think Shaunessy went way over the top on this article, paplebon was not coming back it was mutual and Valentine is a far better manager than Sveum.  Management knows what they are doing.  Do you wonder if management duped Theo into taking Seuvm?  Be patient.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sapper1. Show sapper1's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

     Shaughnessy is an idiot! Has alot of time on his hands...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos":
    [QUOTE]No, I think Shaunessy went way over the top on this article, paplebon was not coming back it was mutual and Valentine is a far better manager than Sveum.  Management knows what they are doing.  Do you wonder if management duped Theo into taking Seuvm?  Be patient.
    Posted by bigdog1[/QUOTE]

    Shaughnessy is blowing things out of proportion. The article is ridiculous. Theo signed Sveum because he wanted to. He wasn't "duped" by anyone.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Shaghnessy is always trying to note the controversy and failings of the subjects of his rants.  And this article was one of his most ridiculous attempts.

    We may not like waiting, and the FO may be in the process of sorting out its chain of command, and I do think that Lucchino has made Cherington look like a second banana right of the gate (purposely or not?).  But none of that makes the organization a "doofus" organization.  It wasn't all that long ago that the Sox organization was considered one of the best in all sports.  And all of the princiapl architects of that, except for Theo, are still there.

    That said, I agree with Cafardo, who wonders why no such controversy and public outcry has followed the Braves equally catastrophic collapse.

    If the Celtics were playing games would the Sox be under such media scrutiny?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

      FROM WHERE I SIT, SHAUGHNESSY IS ALWAYS "SPOT ON" !!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos" : Shaughnessy is blowing things out of proportion. The article is ridiculous. Theo signed Sveum because he wanted to. He wasn't "duped" by anyone.
    Posted by jrh1194[/QUOTE]

    A manager is only as good as his players...Fact....Take the best manager in baseball and have him manage  Say..(Baltimore  ) and see what happens...Fact ..How many really good managers have won manager of the year with a bad team? Fact Take the worst manager and put him with Yankees will the Yanks have a losing season. Not !!..Bill Belichick coaching Cleveland Browns??? Players must perform for your manager but then again ,Thats only if players want too...Fact..You fire managers not players.......It's sad but players have control of what goes down........And who the manager of the year is.....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from agarbari. Show agarbari's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    If you were a free agent would you want to come to this chaos here ? I would not.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos" : A manager is only as good as his players...Fact....Take the best manager in baseball and have him manage  Say..(Baltimore  ) and see what happens...Fact ..How many really good managers have won manager of the year with a bad team? Fact Take the worst manager and put him with Yankees will the Yanks have a losing season. Not !!..Bill Belichick coaching Cleveland Browns??? Players must perform for your manager but then again ,Thats only if players want too...Fact..You fire managers not players.......It's sad but players have control of what goes down........And who the manager of the year is.....
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]   AS  B B WOULD SAY ....... "SON, IT IS WHAT IT IS" !!!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from OscarGamble. Show OscarGamble's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Way out of proportion. Holding out for Matt Garza? Ridiculous, unless the Cubs wanted to dump his contract. This type of scenario is not unprecented; in the end, you don't get a player the caliber of Garza for a front office guy leaving a year early.
    Still, Boston should hold out for what they want beacause for all we know, Epstein might end up being the Cubs most noteworthy acquisition this entire offseason. They got a high-profile, 36 year-old club president with 2 World Series rings and rest assured, Cubs ownership isn't downplaying that. Opening Day program? Theo Epstein on the cover. Cubs 2012 media guide? Theo Epstein on the cover, etc.
    If/when Selig makes the call, I bet he takes that into account and Chicago ends up giving Boston more than they intended to.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Plluto29. Show Plluto29's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    I agree with Shaugnessy in that the Red Sox seem to be a rudderless ship (or maybe too many captains grabbing the wheel and causing the ship to be driven erracticall and not going anywhere towards improving the situation).  It is not necessarily the loss of Papelbon or not signing Sveum that are troublesome for me (as has correctly been pointed out above, Papelbon was not going to be re-signed for 4 years, and at this point it almost does not matter who the Red Sox bring in to be the manager as the next candidate almost certainly will be a caretaker through this chaotic time, be fired in favor of a longer term solution in 2-3 years).  As for compensation from the Cubs, Shaughnessy is off base thinking that the Cubs were going to force themselves to part with Garza (or anyone else who might help the Sox either immediately or in 1-2 years) to get Theo.  The Red Sox were not going to get any more than a used bag of baseballs for Theo in any event.  He's a GM not a player. If the Sox ownership group is undermining Ben then this chaotic situation will continue leading to more fan frustration. If the ownership group believes in Ben then let him do the job and stay out of the way.  If they don't believe in him, why did he get hired? This is where Shaughnessy is totally correct. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    I think the real failure of the Sox lies with not matching up the personalities of the players they brought into the Sox organization the last couple of years.  The FO paid for good players to come to the team but the intangible inner workings in the clubhouse were basically ignored.  The players remained nothing more than a group of individuals being paid to play the game for large sums of money and to that end the individual became more important than the team concept.  I compare the current Sox to the current Yanks and the difference does not lie in the talent put on the field - rather in the attitude of the team as a whole.  The Yanks are very similar to the Sox in that they both spend big to achieve big.  The Rays are the perfect example of team concept over individual effort and the ability to overachieve when management is steering the ship and the crew is happy.  In short the Sox lack any team spirit and cohesiveness that allows a team to overcome the natural clubhouse disagreements.  There is no respected leader (FO or field) that can step up and set things right when the ship veers off course.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Nope. This is a non story. If the Celtics are playing we are reading about sports and this article doeasn't make the Sunday edition. Strickly literary fluff.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Not chaos, but a little sloppy.  People forget that Theo and Tito were masters of the press.  This is all about manipulation of the media and the fans, and LL and Ben are not on message right now.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Shaughnessy is a sports writer who always dwells on the negative and thrives on doing that. He always tries to pick out every negative aspect of any situation and magnify the problem. He pretty much is garbage, but I guess the Globe wants someone like him, as it sells newspapers. Has he ever really written a positive article about the Sox, other a true like human interest story? Ignore him and realize he is their to present the negative about most situations.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SculEsqare. Show SculEsqare's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Tell It Like It Is! When this situation happens to other teams we laugh at them, they can’t get there %$##@ together; THE SOX, we’re above that; we’re a class act. Look at us now, a circus of embarrassment, indecision with no game plan. How did this go so bad so fast?  Would any big name want to be part of an organization of indecision on a team of class b wana be prima-donnas.  Get real folks, we’re old, undisciplined, and just collecting a pay check. While other teams are getting better we still have a catching staff who can’t throw anyone out, along with a premier first baseman that never breaks a sweat trotting to first.  We have no proven closer. No team leaders. A left fielder that never will make it while under the microscope. A pitching staff who believe they have a right to be bad because their human and on and on. All while we’re waiting for a whole new coaching staff to come on board, good luck with all that. The killer instinct is gone; the desire to be the best of the best is gone; our tradition is being abused; when did we as fans accept mediocrity. Fans, maybe that’s the problem, to many fans and not enough of us left who realize the Sox are a way of life.  Take the blinders off folks; we’re in for a tough couple of years. Please don’t give me “if you were a real fan you would”, I still have splinters in my %## from sitting in the bleachers watching Jimmy P and Jacky J.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuck45. Show chuck45's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Sox fans no i dont agree with DS,whats the rush ,if i recall ST is still months away.Have no problem with SOX taking their time ,with hiring a manager.After all this is a very important position.Actually im more anxious on signing bull pen pitchers,last but not least a starter too.Also need a outfielder who is a rightie.GO SOX.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    People tend to have a knee jerk reaction to Shaughnessy's writing , but it is getting kind of hard to keep pretending that all is well with this team.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from fordabeach. Show fordabeach's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Shaughnessy writes nothing but negative attacks. They are in chaos because they are taking their time to get the right manager?? Please. Is this the best he can do for articles??
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Why does not having a manager in Nov mean you are in chaos?
    Is there anything coming up before Dec. that it is imperative you have a manager on board?
    Is a manager that important in the signing of FA? 
    IMHO it would be nice to have a mgr. but we all know a new mgr will be given players to work with especially any newbie manager. The only thing a new mgr can do is tell you their experiance with a player if they have any same with a Bobby V.

    Is a manager that important in drafts?
    No since all that work is done by scouts and the rest of the FO.

    The only need for a manger at this time is to get his coaches in place and get ready for ST and the season.
    I'm sure the RS would like to have a guy on board but there is NOTHING that says they have to have one by such and such a date.

    Just because what many thought was the front runner took another job means nothing.
    I'm glad the RS did not jump out and hire the next guy many thought was in line for the job.

    IMHO it is not chaos.

    I see it as due dilligence by a team that is looking for the right guy. What does it matter that they decided to look at other people with different resumes
    If it takes another 3 or 4 weeks so what.

    BTW I found it amusing that a writer for the RS for what 30 years started out in his first paragraph lamenting that the RS did not play in October. I see the entitlement has spread to our media as well.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    Thanks NBA.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    NO, it was chaos when Inepstein was still there. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    The Red Sox indeed have serious issues, but the column's tone is one of a cheap-shot artist.

    Who better exemplifies a cheap-shot artist than Dan Shaughnessy?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos"

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Shaughnessy?:"Red Sox in chaos":
    [QUOTE]Shaghnessy is always trying to note the controversy and failings of the subjects of his rants.  And this article was one of his most ridiculous attempts. We may not like waiting, and the FO may be in the process of sorting out its chain of command, and I do think that Lucchino has made Cherington look like a second banana right of the gate (purposely or not?).  But none of that makes the organization a "doofus" organization.  It wasn't all that long ago that the Sox organization was considered one of the best in all sports.  And all of the princiapl architects of that, except for Theo, are still there. That said, I agree with Cafardo, who wonders why no such controversy and public outcry has followed the Braves equally catastrophic collapse. If the Celtics were playing games would the Sox be under such media scrutiny?
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]

    I haven't followed the reaction in Atlanta by the fans to the Braves collapse but maybe it's because Red Sox fans just like Patriot fans are spoiled by the success of thier teams after years of being anywhere from mediocre to bordering successful. Neither team had a long record of success and at best had winning records in good times but never the level of achievement both team have enjoyed in recent years. 

    As for the front office being in chaos, it's possible to perceive it that way if you want to but it's also just as much a possibility that the FO as you say is in the middle of sorting things out. Unfortunately Cherington is caught in the middle and no matter what moves he makes or doesn't make in Boston just like Theo and Tito, he's under the microscope of the press & fans in a no win situation. We are on the outside looking in and it's easy to sit in a chair and criticize. 

    Many fans want instant gratification and if they don't get it negativity sets in. Such is much of the press in Boston and Shaughnessy is amongst that bunch with this article.  

    Hetchinspete
      
     
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