Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    2.  Love the sinner and hate the sin is a Christian euphemism.  You are now making an appeal to Christianity - which is typical of the religiously illiterate.  Namely, you are asking for all the Christian kindness but none of the Christian rules.  Jesus was kind to sinners - but he also said "go and sin no more"  (look it up).

    3.  Christians are uncomfortrable around sin - that is not new.  But you are missing an absolutely critical aspect of the debate.  In this case, the sin and the sinner (homosexuality and homosexuals) are being trumpetted as not sin at all and rather, something to be "celebrated!"  It's as if you had a group of people who not only were willing to drink and drive but were also demanding that drinking and driving was no worse than sober driving; and furthermore demanding that we "celebrate" drinking and driving.

    Hogwash, and you know it.  

    Here's what Hunter didn't say: "If I had a gay teammate, I wouldn't be okay with his lifestyle, and I might try to get him to change his ways, but I'd still be kind to him, as I would to anyone else." That wouldn't be "celebrating" homosexuality, and no one asked him to do so; and while I still wouldn't agree with his beliefs, I'd at least respect him more.

    But instead, he said he'd be uncomfortable even having a gay person around and thought it would "divide" a team. If you think that's Christ-like, maybe it's you who needs to read your Gospels again. I'm not a Christian, and even I can tell that attitude is more like that of a Pharisee than that of Christ. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    "Is this the thread where "tolerant massachusetts liberals" bash the Christians?"

      "When they were in the minority on the subject of homosexuality, the message sreamed from the roof tops was "tolerance and respect for others views which might be different from your own". A very reasonable stance and one I agreed with completely. Once THEIRS became the majority view, and people were tripping all over themselves to prove how "tolerant" they were, any opposing views on the matter are now deemed unacceptable and the author of such views in need of villification. Bah! Hypocrites!!"    ----

    I'm not a liberal (at least in the current accepted American usage of the word), but I'll take a crack at this.  

    There would indeed be a double standard at work here if you think all persons and beliefs are equally deserving of "tolerance," which is a ridiculous idea that I'm sure no one here actually believes. (This, I think, was SonicMonks' point earlier in the thread, but SG decided to play dumb and accuse him of equating Christians with Nazis.)   

    "Morality" for me is all about treating other people right; worrying about what they do in their bedrooms with other consenting adults has nothing to do with it, and thankfully I have much more important things in my life to worry about. And I don't care what religion someone practices; my family, my wife and her family, and the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances are Christians of one sort or another, so don't try to tell me I have a problem "tolerating Christians." Though I might think someone's religious beliefs are kind of dumb, out of respect for the person themselves I won't go around mocking them. What I have a problem with is people who try to shove their religion down others throats, and who use a collection of writings from thousands of years ago on the other side of the world as an excuse to discriminate against people who have done nothing to them or anyone else other than living their lives in a way that they don't approve of...I don't have to be "tolerant" towards that.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think every opinion from every person necessarily deserves respect.  For example, should I respect the opinion of those in favour of female circumcision?  Or that of Nazis?  Or Yankee fans?  ;-)))

    I don't think Hunter is a bad guy at all, from what I know of him.  But I think he's dead wrong and have no respect for his opinion on this issue.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup.  Here we go - you are comparing Christians to Nazis.

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you really this stupid, or just play acting?  I deliberately put female circumcisers, Nazis AND YANKEE FANS together as examples of views I do not support and view as non-supportable by decent people (one excepted, of course!).  Followed by an emoticon.  And I made no reference to any religion.

    Please explain how I compared - nay, mentioned - christians to anything.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was upset that you compared Christians to Yankee fans.  Now that was uncalled for.

    [/QUOTE]



    ....Et tu, JoeB?  ;-)


    I'm sure you understand that 1) my post was 100% free of any pro- or anti-religious dogma, it was simply to refute the belief that any view is automatically worthy of respect; and 2) I bent over backwards to make it obvious*.

    * - to some.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    homophobic

    For those who ape "homophobic", please define the word beyond "fear of the same".

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you can figure out what it means by yourself. Use google if you have to do so.

     People spend far too much time worrying about what other people think and what other people do.

    I don't care what anyone's sexual persuasion is.  I don't care what Tori Hunter thinks about anyone's sexual persuasion.  

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think every opinion from every person necessarily deserves respect.  For example, should I respect the opinion of those in favour of female circumcision?  Or that of Nazis?  Or Yankee fans?  ;-)))

    I don't think Hunter is a bad guy at all, from what I know of him.  But I think he's dead wrong and have no respect for his opinion on this issue.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup.  Here we go - you are comparing Christians to Nazis.

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you really this stupid, or just play acting?  I deliberately put female circumcisers, Nazis AND YANKEE FANS together as examples of views I do not support and view as non-supportable by decent people (one excepted, of course!).  Followed by an emoticon.  And I made no reference to any religion.

    Please explain how I compared - nay, mentioned - christians to anything.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was upset that you compared Christians to Yankee fans.  Now that was uncalled for.

    [/QUOTE]



    ....Et tu, JoeB?  ;-)


    I'm sure you understand that 1) my post was 100% free of any pro- or anti-religious dogma, it was simply to refute the belief that any view is automatically worthy of respect; and 2) I bent over backwards to make it obvious*.

    * - to some.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought I was rather obvious as well, implying that I was more comfortable comparing Christians to Nazis than comparing Christians to Yankee fans.  Just my little attempt at humor.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    Please explain how I compared - nay, mentioned - christians to anything.

    [/QUOTE]

    I was upset that you compared Christians to Yankee fans.  Now that was uncalled for.

    [/QUOTE]



    ....Et tu, JoeB?  ;-)


    I'm sure you understand that 1) my post was 100% free of any pro- or anti-religious dogma, it was simply to refute the belief that any view is automatically worthy of respect; and 2) I bent over backwards to make it obvious*.

    * - to some.

    [/QUOTE]

    I thought I was rather obvious as well, implying that I was more comfortable comparing Christians to Nazis than comparing Christians to Yankee fans.  Just my little attempt at humor.

    [/QUOTE]

    You were! And I got it!  And it was funny!  Apols if my post implied otherwise.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Define "sexual persuastion".

    And you make a great case for ending gender based showers. Hunter should not be thinking about anyone's sexual behavioral proclivity, at anytime.

    [/QUOTE]


    dictionary.com doesn't have "persuastion" in its database.  What is the meaning of the word you are trying to discuss? 

    If "persuastion" is an educated, high-powered lawyering term that I am unfamiliar with I apologise in advance.  In my line of work we have to rely on commonly used English words.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Teakus, historically it makes no sense for a black man to judge someone for something other than his character...unless one feel gays are inherently bad people....either way Tori is a bigot...why do I have to have tolerance for that?

    [/QUOTE]

    When two groups have deeply held beliefs that are 100% at odds - expecting them to agree is foolishness.

    You can either remain objective - or take sides.

    You have decided to side with the homosexuals.  That's fine.  Your choice.  You are with the homosexuals and against the Christians.

    Does that mean we get to call you a bigot?  Are you an anti-Christian bigot?  It seems like you are.

     

     

    I'm the bigot because I won't endorse someone's blind prejudice? That's some religion if that's their calling card....I don't recall that message of hate through my 12 years of catechism


     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ....I don't recall that message of hate through my 12 years of catechism

    Not surpsising, since you don't recall a lot of messages from your 12 years of catechism.

    [/QUOTE]


    seriously Softy...not once did I ever hear of a sermon of hate regarding gays, homosexuals, or even divorced folks..and I went to conservative Italian parish catechism classes...when gays were in the closet (including many church officials) they were not a threat...but now because of civil marriage, they are intolerable, immoral people....

    dumb...

    cast the first stone...remember that sermon?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Did his Christian up bringing also teach, having four children with four women, who weren't his wife, and not in their lives?

    [/QUOTE]

    Dont you know Christians of this type pick and choose from the bible teachings to suit their prejudices?  It reminds me of all the Christians who would never have an abortion because its against the bible teachings but yet these same Christians have no problem with premarital sex  
    ...funny how that works

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Define "sexual persuasion".

    And you make a great case for ending gender based showers. Hunter should not be thinking about anyone's sexual behavioral proclivity, at anytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    You could probably google seuxal persuasion and figure out what it means. Maybe look at the definitions of both words and fit them together in a way that makes sense. I have faith in you.

    I said I don't care what Hunter thinks. He can think about whatever he wants, any time he wants. Consenting adults can have sex with other consenting adults.

    See how easy all of that is?

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    Define "sexual persuasion".

    And you make a great case for ending gender based showers. Hunter should not be thinking about anyone's sexual behavioral proclivity, at anytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    You could probably google seuxal persuasion and figure out what it means. Maybe look at the definitions of both words and fit them together in a way that makes sense. I have faith in you.

    I said I don't care what Hunter thinks. He can think about whatever he wants, any time he wants. Consenting adults can have sex with other consenting adults.

    See how easy all of that is?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Uh, Snake, I think it's spelled "persuastion".  A high-powered, detail-oriented lawyer said so.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Define "sexual persuasion".

    And you make a great case for ending gender based showers. Hunter should not be thinking about anyone's sexual behavioral proclivity, at anytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    You could probably google seuxal persuasion and figure out what it means. Maybe look at the definitions of both words and fit them together in a way that makes sense. I have faith in you.

    I said I don't care what Hunter thinks. He can think about whatever he wants, any time he wants. Consenting adults can have sex with other consenting adults.

    See how easy all of that is?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Uh, Snake, I think it's spelled "persuastion".  A high-powered, detail-oriented lawyer said so.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah I saw he edited that out.

    My personal favorites of his are "Rolls Roys"  and "Libia".

    The guy really is impressive.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    Teakus, historically it makes no sense for a black man to judge someone for something other than his character...unless one feel gays are inherently bad people....either way Tori is a bigot...why do I have to have tolerance for that?

    [/QUOTE]

    When two groups have deeply held beliefs that are 100% at odds - expecting them to agree is foolishness.

    You can either remain objective - or take sides.

    You have decided to side with the homosexuals.  That's fine.  Your choice.  You are with the homosexuals and against the Christians.

    Does that mean we get to call you a bigot?  Are you an anti-Christian bigot?  It seems like you are.

    I'm the bigot because I won't endorse someone's blind prejudice? That's some religion if that's their calling card....I don't recall that message of hate through my 12 years of catechism

    [/QUOTE]

    Ha.  This is exactly the point I made earlier that Shump was unable to understand.   There is no opinion above criticism.  The origin of our views is irrelevant to me....religion, politics, science, nonsense, culture, family....ultimately we each take a view/stance on everything and should defend it on merit, not fall back on dogma i.e. "it's written in a book" or "that's what everyone thinks" or "that's what I was taught".

    I don't believe there is a universal morality (which is somewhat at odds with my general, absolute view of "right" and "wrong", I admit, and would love to discuss it over a pint the next time I'm in Boston)....but it seems pretty clear to me that some things are obviously "wrong" regardless of the noise around us.

    For example, as Shump seems unable to understand, I think that female gennnital mutilation is absolutely wrong.  F culture, religion, belief, tradition, family, anything....it's wrong IMO, and there is no belief-based view that can justify it IMO.....and I think every person reading this will agree.  But extend the logic....if someone thinks FGM, or male circumcision, or taxes, or abortion, or gun ownership, or Yankee fandom....defend it on merit, not dogma.

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    Teakus, historically it makes no sense for a black man to judge someone for something other than his character...unless one feel gays are inherently bad people....either way Tori is a bigot...why do I have to have tolerance for that?

    [/QUOTE]

    When two groups have deeply held beliefs that are 100% at odds - expecting them to agree is foolishness.

    You can either remain objective - or take sides.

    You have decided to side with the homosexuals.  That's fine.  Your choice.  You are with the homosexuals and against the Christians.

    Does that mean we get to call you a bigot?  Are you an anti-Christian bigot?  It seems like you are.

    I'm the bigot because I won't endorse someone's blind prejudice? That's some religion if that's their calling card....I don't recall that message of hate through my 12 years of catechism

    [/QUOTE]

    Ha.  This is exactly the point I made earlier that Shump was unable to understand.   There is no opinion above criticism.  The origin of our views is irrelevant to me....religion, politics, science, nonsense, culture, family....ultimately we each take a view/stance on everything and should defend it on merit, not fall back on dogma i.e. "it's written in a book" or "that's what everyone thinks" or "that's what I was taught".

    I don't believe there is a universal morality (which is somewhat at odds with my general, absolute view of "right" and "wrong", I admit, and would love to discuss it over a pint the next time I'm in Boston)....but it seems pretty clear to me that some things are obviously "wrong" regardless of the noise around us.

    For example, as Shump seems unable to understand, I think that female gennnital mutilation is absolutely wrong.  F culture, religion, belief, tradition, family, anything....it's wrong IMO, and there is no belief-based view that can justify it IMO.....and I think every person reading this will agree.  But extend the logic....if someone thinks FGM, or male circumcision, or taxes, or abortion, or gun ownership, or Yankee fandom....defend it on merit, not dogma.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?


    Uh, Snake, I think it's spelled "persuastion".  A high-powered, detail-oriented lawyer said so.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah I saw he edited that out

    My personal favorites of his are "Rolls Roys"  and "Libia".

    The guy really is impressive.

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Hahaha....I also noticed the edit.   Really made me laugh.    To me, his biggest character flaw is patronising people.  For whatever reason, he picked out that one of his many lazy, thoughtless errors* to correct.....but, as his post had already been responded to the initial error (minor) was on record....but weeer all sew dum we never would notice it.

     

    * - Successful lawyers** are well-known for their lack of attention to detail.

    ** - edit!

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I see Hunter is now apologizing and saying he was misquoted.

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course he is.  he knows that liberal tolerance is a farce and he will be destroyed by liberals if he doesn;t renounce his non-sanctioned beliefs.

    This is just another example why liberals/leftists tend toward totalitarianism.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Nonsense.  No "liberal" or "leftist" would ever discuss this issue spontaneously....because such people think it's a non-issue.  It's just the creepy, genitally-obsessed weirdos that raise it over and over again.

    [/QUOTE]


    Really?  Then why did a bunch of liberals come running into this thread denouncing Hunter's "parental proclivities" with full throated howls of indignation?

    And think before you say "hypocrisy", Mr. Kettle.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would I care about whether or not some random baseball player was homophobic or not?  These types of threads boggle my mind.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    This I completely agree with.

     

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    That's absurd, then again I think you are unable and/or unwilling to listen and learn.  My (tangential) point was in response to a poster I respect who wrote that he "respected" Hunter's view even though he disagreed with it.

    My response - and feel free to examine and critique it - was that no opinion is automatically deserving of respect.  I chose 3 examples to illustrate that response....two so extreme that I believe no decent person could debate them and the third was an obvious joke.

    Perhaps that's too fine a point for the likes of you to understand. 

    [/QUOTE]


    In other words - you are convinced that no opinion is automatically deserving of respect - but you are simultaneously demanding that your opinion be respected.

    Take a logic class.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not a Christian

    [/QUOTE]


    No need to state the obvious. 

    Go back and read those 4 gospels and then get back to me.  No sense in me discussing it with a religious illiterate.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Tori Hunter?

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Teakus, historically it makes no sense for a black man to judge someone for something other than his character...unless one feel gays are inherently bad people....either way Tori is a bigot...why do I have to have tolerance for that?

    [/QUOTE]

    When two groups have deeply held beliefs that are 100% at odds - expecting them to agree is foolishness.

    You can either remain objective - or take sides.

    You have decided to side with the homosexuals.  That's fine.  Your choice.  You are with the homosexuals and against the Christians.

    Does that mean we get to call you a bigot?  Are you an anti-Christian bigot?  It seems like you are.

     

     

    I'm the bigot because I won't endorse someone's blind prejudice? That's some religion if that's their calling card....I don't recall that message of hate through my 12 years of catechism


    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting.

    You don't seem to like "hate"

    Isn't hate just another sin?  Why do you excuse (nay, I dare say you celebrate!) homosexuality while simultaneously opinions you define as "hate"

    Do you spend a lot of time living in hypocrisy? 

     

    Here is you:  "Hate is no good; but sexual immorality is okay.  Well not all sexual immorality - obviously homosexuality is okay - it's just when heterosexuals have sex outside of marriage that it is bad;  well not exactly all heterosexual sex outside marriage is bad- just when it results in conception of 4 kids like tori Hunter!"

    Here is me:  Wow.  You are mixed up.  {laughter - loud laughter}

     

     

     

     

     
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