Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    I believe that the CBA stipulates a player cannot see more than a 15% decrease in pay with arbitration. The best case scenario would still have Ortiz collecting near what he made last year. Realistically, he'll make more than $12.5 million because he had a good year.

    Given the way the market has developed this off-season, I agree with the poster on the previous page who thinks that the Red Sox could sign him for as little as 1 year/$8 million. Maybe the negotiations would drag into late January, and perhaps that would create some uneasiness with fans, however ultimately Ortiz would return for around that price, maybe even less when he sees fewer and fewer options. There's really nowhere for him to go, except maybe Baltimore, and Dan Duquette isn't about to commit long-term to a player no one wants for multiple years. If it comes down to 1 year in Baltimore or 1 year in Boston, Ortiz will stay in Boston. Even if he somehow doesn't, the Red Sox could sign one of the other DH candidates like Johnny Damon or Vladimir Guerrero. They could also just plug Ryan Lavarnway at DH.

    In short, there's no reason for the Red Sox to offer Ortiz arbitration. If they offer it, no other team will sign him because they won't want to sacrifice two top draft picks for a 36 yearold slugger in overall decline. It will all but guarantee that he accepts arbitration and gets overpaid at around $14 million for 1 year. While that may not seem like a lot, the difference between $14 million and $8 million is significant. The Red Sox could sign a No. 4 starter with that extra $6 million, or a closer, or a pair of decent setup men.

    Maybe Ortiz will feel disrespected if the Red Sox fail to offer him arbitration. He'll get over it. Ultimately, he'll realize that Boston is his best option and he'll come back. The Red Sox could assuage his ego by adding a team option for a second year with a relatively small buy-out ($1 million). For all we know, maybe the Red Sox are working out such a deal right now, hoping to announce it in advance of the deadline.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    They will offer, and should.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    I believe that the CBA stipulates a player cannot see more than a 15% decrease in pay with arbitration. The best case scenario would still have Ortiz collecting near what he made last year. Realistically, he'll make more than $12.5 million because he had a good year. Given the way the market has developed this off-season, I agree with the poster on the previous page who thinks that the Red Sox could sign him for as little as 1 year/$8 million. Maybe the negotiations would drag into late January, and perhaps that would create some uneasiness with fans, however ultimately Ortiz would return for around that price, maybe even less when he sees fewer and fewer options. There's really nowhere for him to go, except maybe Baltimore, and Dan Duquette isn't about to commit long-term to a player no one wants for multiple years. If it comes down to 1 year in Baltimore or 1 year in Boston, Ortiz will stay in Boston. Even if he somehow doesn't, the Red Sox could sign one of the other DH candidates like Johnny Damon or Vladimir Guerrero. They could also just plug Ryan Lavarnway at DH. In short, there's no reason for the Red Sox to offer Ortiz arbitration. If they offer it, no other team will sign him because they won't want to sacrifice two top draft picks for a 36 yearold slugger in overall decline. It will all but guarantee that he accepts arbitration and gets overpaid at around $14 million for 1 year. While that may not seem like a lot, the difference between $14 million and $8 million is significant. The Red Sox could sign a No. 4 starter with that extra $6 million, or a closer, or a pair of decent setup men. Maybe Ortiz will feel disrespected if the Red Sox fail to offer him arbitration. He'll get over it. Ultimately, he'll realize that Boston is his best option and he'll come back. The Red Sox could assuage his ego by adding a team option for a second year with a relatively small buy-out ($1 million). For all we know, maybe the Red Sox are working out such a deal right now, hoping to announce it in advance of the deadline.
    Posted by davidap

    Under the soon-to-expire Collective Bargaining Agreement, the 15 percent restriction applies only arbitration-eligible players with fewer than six years of MLB experience (not to free agents such as David Ortiz).

    "If the Player accepts the offer to arbitrate, he shall be a signed player for the next season and the parties will conduct a salary arbitration proceeding under Article VI; provided, however, that the rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI shall be inapplicable."

    See Article XX, Section B(3) on Page 72 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement:

    http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp? : The arbitration criteria in the soon-to-expire Collective Bargaining Agreement include, among other factors: "... the record of the Player’s past compensation , comparative baseball salaries ..." See Article VI, Section F(12) on Page 18 of the 2007-2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement: http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf
    Posted by hill55


    I would think they'll offer him arbitration and if he accepts even if he gets an increase they'll be fine with him on a 1 year deal...If I am not mistaken the compensation or comparitive salaries are based on like players that play the same position? As such he's already the highest paid DH.

    If he declines then they'll either let em walk or try to negotiate a new deal often times the team has already gotten assurances from the players agent regarding thier intent to accept or decline....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    Didn't tek go to arb? How did that work out?
    Posted by jackbu

    Jason Varitek declined a Red Sox offer of arbitration following the 2008 season but re-signed as a free agent in January 2009 and again in December 2010.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stodknocker. Show stodknocker's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp? :   YA THINK !!  I THINK NOT..... ARB, MEANS ANOTHER AT 12MIL+ AND ANOTHER YEAR OF GROUND BALLS INTO THE SHIFT...... LUCCIANO's SAYS CUT THE CORD AND MOVE ON !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806


    I disagree with you, sure say he gets 12mil from arbitration, that's still better than the 3/10 or 2/12 he was said to be seeking. Sure, he may ground into the shift but he hit 29 HR's with a .309 avg and an ops of .953.......I will take the chance on getting that again, especially the way he mashed lefties this year! If he breaks down, well you're not paying for it over 3 years, only one.....
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    If the Sox offer salary arbitration, they will probably submit an offer the same as his last contract.  If Ortiz's agent submits an offer of $14 million, I think the Sox win, so I don't see the Sox having to pay more than his current salary.  If he becomes a free agent without the signing team losing a free agent, I can see him getting a 2 yr deal worth $20 million.  If he is the best DH, and others are getting $8 mil, then he can get $10 mil per year.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    It will be one year at $8 mil. Too much talk about this.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    He signed for a lot less then the sox were offering before arb.
    Posted by jackbu

    Do you have a report on how much the "sox were offering before arb."?

    There was much speculation that Jason Varitek would have done better in arbitration than he did as a free agent in the 2008-09 offseason, but I don't remember any reports of Red Sox salary offers before Varitek declined arbitration.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CASox. Show CASox's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp? :   YA THINK !!  I THINK NOT..... ARB, MEANS ANOTHER AT 12MIL+ AND ANOTHER YEAR OF GROUND BALLS INTO THE SHIFT...... LUCCIANO's SAYS CUT THE CORD AND MOVE ON !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806


    Yeah in spite of that he hit over .300....such a hater!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    The Red Sox have offered David Ortiz arbitration, according to MLB Trade Rumors:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/american-league-free-agent-arbitration-offers.html

    Dan Wheeler was offered arbitration; Jason Varitek was not.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    Of course one year would be ideal as apposed to letting Ortiz walk. However it it raining insanity here with those that think that is even an option in David's eyes. This is why we must let him go - he will never go along with what might make sense to the rest of the word. Why should he if he can get more elsewhere?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    Will seek a two year deal to exceed one year 13 to 14M arbitration. That market exists. Red Sox should offer 1 year 13.5 to 14M plus option 8M and buyout of 2.5M. The best 2 year market will be no more than base 8 to 10, and 1 to 2M more over 2 years is not enough for Ortiz to leave soon to be retirement brand for another town.

    Ortiz is coming off an excellent league season. But his age makes risk and value a one year deal. His true value is about 1 year and 7 or 8M, but his production in 2011 and his career has earned the 6 or 7M gold watch. But going 2 years is not in the best interest of either party. Ortiz had better not tarnish his good will and career image by doing what Varitek and Wastefield are doing. Just becuase he can do it does not mean the Red Sox should enable it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    Ortiz had better not tarnish his good will and career image by doing what Varitek and Wastefield are doing.

    I'm not sure what you mean here. Ortiz is still a very good player. He's not remotely close to Varitek or Wakefield level. I agree his skills could evaporate overnight. That hasn't happened yet, and hopefully won't, for another year or two.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    2 years will likely be too much. Ortiz needs to accept that he is in year to year mode, and will need to step out with grace, not beg for sympathy contracts, like Varitek and Wastefield.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigdog1. Show bigdog1's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    I hope we get the picks, but he will accept and take the money.  I don't see any other tean giving up two picks and a 2 to 3 year deal. I was hoping they would have let him go and use the money on pitching.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    you offer and  if he accepts  you have him for 2012.

    if he doesn't  you get   2 picks  ..

    No brainer  except for mabe Haywood Sullivan  -- 
    now  did we mail Fisk's contract yet ?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    bigdog my hope was they would not offer arb and get pen help or a frontline pitcher with the money.

    They have two picks it would be nice to have four--probably won't happen.

    If we didn't offer arb it would have made his agents job easier--no comp if you sign Papi--let's make a deal. I think someone like the O's might offer two years at $17 ( $8 + 8 + $1 team buyout). That would be kind of in line with what Vlad would have gotten in arb. I think Papi would have success hitting in Camden Yard.
    Good luck Papi however it turns out.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

       AS DAD WOULD SAY ......  "SON, WRONG AGAIN BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, THE SOX TOOK A FLYER ON ARBITRATION, EVEN THOUGH THEY DID NOT WANT TO"  !!!   LETS SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT !!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    I began to note in 2006 that Ortiz had developed an attitude. Frankly it was obvious to anyone who was not a Blind Homer, that he no longer looked like he was having fun. He became more of a "I am a machine, I am as bad as hell" type of braggart rather than the feel-good story player that was discarded from Minnesota.

    Oh I could go on and on but I won't become a target again over this compadre. He needs to go simple as that... he is no way near the player he used to be. God forbid AGon goes down with an injury, Ortiz would shrink at the challenge of carrying the team - FACT.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    In Response to Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?:
    I hope we get the picks, but he will accept and take the money.  I don't see any other tean giving up two picks and a 2 to 3 year deal. I was hoping they would have let him go and use the money on pitching.
    Posted by bigdog1


    The signing team only has to give up 1 pick; the second pick is a supplemental draft pick.  Though I do agree that this hurts his bargaining power.  Also, just because they offered him arbitration doesn't mean they can't offer him a deal instead.  They could still offer 2 years $8 mil per
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Do you offer Papi Arbitration or let him Walk with no Comp?

    Burrito is right.  Ortiz became a player not remotely identifiable with his legend that came out of 2004 and in 2007 to a lesser degree. After his terrible starts in 2009 and 2010 he redefined himself as an angry, unhappy, defensive, and hardly impactful player.  This is as you said FACT, others who disagree are in denial still living in the great unprecedented comeback of 2004.  Ortiz is no longer a force but more of a stat chaser now hitting home runs that mean little and offering nothing on a team so desperate for a leader.  We saw in Sept.
     
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