do you still like the trade?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    do you still like the trade?

    My position at the beginning of the season was to put Iglesias at SS, Middlebrooks at 3B until Bogaerts was ready to take over 3b, at which time switch Middlebrooks to 1B.

    At the mid-season point, and following the All-Star break, I was still of a mind that this would be the best structure for the Sox.

    In spite of what Peavy may or may not contribute down the stretch, I still think the Sox should have held on to Iglesias, and installed Bogaerts at 3B and moved Middlebrooks to 1B. After seeing him fill in at 2b the other night, I have no doubt that he has the athleticism and skill to become an excellent defensive first baseman.

    And seeing how some of the young starting pitchers from other teams are holding their own at the MLB level, I’m inclined to think that one or two of the Sox minor league starting pitchers could advance and provide some quality starts in place of Peavy.

    Given what Iglesias has already shown with the Tigers, I rue the day the Sox made that trade.

    Oh, how I would love to have seen an infield of Bogaerts, Iglesias, Pedroia, and Middlebrooks down the stretch.

    I’m certain they're many who will disagree with me, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

    *:D big grin

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    I never liked the trade and still don't, but the ship has sailed. Hopefully Peavy will continue throwing well (he's been solid in three of four starts) and be a major boost in October.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    I do still like it.  If Lester has found his groove, we would throw Lester, Peavy, Buchholz & Lackey in the post-season.  I like that against anybody's staff.

    I think Iglesias will have a fine career and will have a hundred highlights that make your heart sink, but he doesn't have the bat to be anything other than a SS, and taking offense and defense together, Bogaerts will be much better.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    Still going to miss watching Iggy play.

    But, still like the trade.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?


    If Peavy gives us some playoff wins, then this trade would have to be considered a successful one....I dont think we could have counted on one of our Young guys winning Playoff games, especially since most would have already reached their innings limits.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    Had to do it. Buchholz injury forced it. Plus Dempster downslide, needed to be done.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    I think it was a fair trade.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom2. Show proftom2's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    Boggy is still a year or two away. His swing, like iggy's swing, is mostly and arm type swing.  Pevy brings a bull dog attitude to the rotation. I still like the trade.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?


    Whether people like it or not it had to be done, we needed pitching so Ben made the deal. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    yes.  like defense but love pitching.

    peavy has been fun to watch too.  love how he gets on himself.

    the dude is pumped to be on a contender.....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    Red Sox are 1-3 in games Peavy has started.

    You can say he pitched well enough to win with runsupport, but the bottom line is, in the 3 losses he pitched 5 innings, 6 innings and 5 2/3 innings.

    This tells me what I already knew. We traded a promising young player for an average pitcher , who is basically a 6 inning pitcher. Considering the bullpen woes, do you really want to turn a lead over to this crew for 4 innings any more than you have to?

    "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to dustcover's comment:

    My position at the beginning of the season was to put Iglesias at SS, Middlebrooks at 3B until Bogaerts was ready to take over 3b, at which time switch Middlebrooks to 1B.

    At the mid-season point, and following the All-Star break, I was still of a mind that this would be the best structure for the Sox.

    In spite of what Peavy may or may not contribute down the stretch, I still think the Sox should have held on to Iglesias, and installed Bogaerts at 3B and moved Middlebrooks to 1B. After seeing him fill in at 2b the other night, I have no doubt that he has the athleticism and skill to become an excellent defensive first baseman.

    And seeing how some of the young starting pitchers from other teams are holding their own at the MLB level, I’m inclined to think that one or two of the Sox minor league starting pitchers could advance and provide some quality starts in place of Peavy.

    Given what Iglesias has already shown with the Tigers, I rue the day the Sox made that trade.

    Oh, how I would love to have seen an infield of Bogaerts, Iglesias, Pedroia, and Middlebrooks down the stretch.

    I’m certain they're many who will disagree with me, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

    *:D big grin



    If that is the case, Boston would not win over 70 games with these three young kids except Pedrioa.   

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

     

    In response to dustcover's comment:

     

     

    My position at the beginning of the season was to put Iglesias at SS, Middlebrooks at 3B until Bogaerts was ready to take over 3b, at which time switch Middlebrooks to 1B.

    At the mid-season point, and following the All-Star break, I was still of a mind that this would be the best structure for the Sox.

    In spite of what Peavy may or may not contribute down the stretch, I still think the Sox should have held on to Iglesias, and installed Bogaerts at 3B and moved Middlebrooks to 1B. After seeing him fill in at 2b the other night, I have no doubt that he has the athleticism and skill to become an excellent defensive first baseman.

    And seeing how some of the young starting pitchers from other teams are holding their own at the MLB level, I’m inclined to think that one or two of the Sox minor league starting pitchers could advance and provide some quality starts in place of Peavy.

    Given what Iglesias has already shown with the Tigers, I rue the day the Sox made that trade.

    Oh, how I would love to have seen an infield of Bogaerts, Iglesias, Pedroia, and Middlebrooks down the stretch.

    I’m certain they're many who will disagree with me, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

    *:D big grin

     

     



    If that is the case, Boston would not win over 70 games with these three young kids except Pedrioa.   

     

     



    Pure speculation.

     

    Teams have won with youth before.

    We are talking about 4 very talented young men, why would you make a statement like that....based completely on guesswork?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to albertct23's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     

    Red Sox are 1-3 in games Peavy has started.

    You can say he pitched well enough to win with runsupport, but the bottom line is, in the 3 losses he pitched 5 innings, 6 innings and 5 2/3 innings.

    This tells me what I already knew. We traded a promising young player for an average pitcher , who is basically a 6 inning pitcher. Considering the bullpen woes, do you really want to turn a lead over to this crew for 4 innings any more than you have to?

    "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut

     




     

    How far from the average now days is it for a starter to only go six innings?  I am pleased with what Peavey has brought us. He could be 3-1 in his four starts.



    ...and I "could be" the king of the world. I "could be" a billionaire. I "could be" God.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    It's too short of a sample to decide. Iggy's batting .302 with Detroit after a slow start, so good for him, although only two of 19 hits are extra bases. On the other hand, in the short term, it really hasn't hurt the Sox. Middlebrooks is hitting better at 3B and Drew is hitting better at SS.

    So the Sox still are better in the lineup albeit a bit worse in the field. On the whole IMO, it's a net gain. Peavy has pitched well in three of four starts, even if he is just a six-inning pitcher.

    So for now, I believe the Sox are better with Middlebrooks-Drew-Peavy than they would be with Iggy-Drew-Workman or Middlebrooks-Iggy-Workman. 

    Let's revisit this trade at the end of the year and at the end of next season. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    Every game different, seems to me Farrell is a Pitch Count Manager, so unless the Starters throw economically in early innings, getting past 7 is a stretch.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Every game different, seems to me Farrell is a Pitch Count Manager, so unless the Starters throw economically in early innings, getting past 7 is a stretch.




    Farrell is clearly a new school mentality with pitcher. It burned him the other night not using Koji to get him 4 outs. Probably why he pulled Peavy the other day too. Nowadays if a pitcher can go 6IP coinsitently and keep the runs 3 or less, hes good.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to royf19's comment:

    It's too short of a sample to decide. Iggy's batting .302 with Detroit after a slow start, so good for him, although only two of 19 hits are extra bases. On the other hand, in the short term, it really hasn't hurt the Sox. Middlebrooks is hitting better at 3B and Drew is hitting better at SS.

    So the Sox still are better in the lineup albeit a bit worse in the field. On the whole IMO, it's a net gain. Peavy has pitched well in three of four starts, even if he is just a six-inning pitcher.

    So for now, I believe the Sox are better with Middlebrooks-Drew-Peavy than they would be with Iggy-Drew-Workman or Middlebrooks-Iggy-Workman. 

    Let's revisit this trade at the end of the year and at the end of next season. 



    As I have said before, Peavy was brought here as a "win now" alternative to the off season plan of rebuilding character, winning mentality and a great clubhouse. If the Red Sox are merely a .500 team and looking at no playoffs, they do not make this trade.

    So the logical man would say, a Red Sox team going deep into the playoffs is all you need to justify this trade.

    If they fail to make the grade, if they lose early in the playoffs. this trade is a mistake.

    If they win it all or advance to the WS, I would have to back down from my stance and agree with all those who say this was a very good trade.

    I am a logical man. This was a trade not about personal stats, but about how far it takes the team in postseason.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    I did not like this trade when it happened. I don't like it now. I am sure I will like it even less in the future. A trade deadline, panic move. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to dustcover's comment:

     

    My position at the beginning of the season was to put Iglesias at SS, Middlebrooks at 3B until Bogaerts was ready to take over 3b, at which time switch Middlebrooks to 1B.

    At the mid-season point, and following the All-Star break, I was still of a mind that this would be the best structure for the Sox.

    In spite of what Peavy may or may not contribute down the stretch, I still think the Sox should have held on to Iglesias, and installed Bogaerts at 3B and moved Middlebrooks to 1B. After seeing him fill in at 2b the other night, I have no doubt that he has the athleticism and skill to become an excellent defensive first baseman.

    And seeing how some of the young starting pitchers from other teams are holding their own at the MLB level, I’m inclined to think that one or two of the Sox minor league starting pitchers could advance and provide some quality starts in place of Peavy.

    Given what Iglesias has already shown with the Tigers, I rue the day the Sox made that trade.

    Oh, how I would love to have seen an infield of Bogaerts, Iglesias, Pedroia, and Middlebrooks down the stretch.

    I’m certain they're many who will disagree with me, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

    *:D big grin

     




     

    The question of do I STILL like the trade implies something that's not true.  I NEVER DID like the trade!

    I could pretty much have written what Dustcover said, except I wouldn't have had the IF of Bogarts, Iggy, Pedey and Middy there down the stretch this year.  That would have been the plan for next year.  I said a month or so ago that I'd see this season circle the drain and go down before I'd trade any of the top prospects.  Those guys were the future of the team and Iggy was the centerpiece of it. 

    And would someone please explain to me why the IF of XB, PI, PD 7 WMB is a recipe for 70 wins and an IF of Middy, XB, Pedey & ?? is decidely better??  Do you really think the 1B-TBNL is 20+ wins better than Iggy?? 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

     

    In response to dustcover's comment:

     

     

    My position at the beginning of the season was to put Iglesias at SS, Middlebrooks at 3B until Bogaerts was ready to take over 3b, at which time switch Middlebrooks to 1B.

    At the mid-season point, and following the All-Star break, I was still of a mind that this would be the best structure for the Sox.

    In spite of what Peavy may or may not contribute down the stretch, I still think the Sox should have held on to Iglesias, and installed Bogaerts at 3B and moved Middlebrooks to 1B. After seeing him fill in at 2b the other night, I have no doubt that he has the athleticism and skill to become an excellent defensive first baseman.

    And seeing how some of the young starting pitchers from other teams are holding their own at the MLB level, I’m inclined to think that one or two of the Sox minor league starting pitchers could advance and provide some quality starts in place of Peavy.

    Given what Iglesias has already shown with the Tigers, I rue the day the Sox made that trade.

    Oh, how I would love to have seen an infield of Bogaerts, Iglesias, Pedroia, and Middlebrooks down the stretch.

    I’m certain they're many who will disagree with me, but that’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

    *:D big grin

     

     



    If that is the case, Boston would not win over 70 games with these three young kids except Pedrioa.   

     

     



    Pure speculation.

     

    Teams have won with youth before.

    We are talking about 4 very talented young men, why would you make a statement like that....based completely on guesswork?



    but these teams took some years to finally develop as a good team.  Pirates started off as a young team like three to four years ago until they finally add pieces to the team, and now they are a good team this year.   Same goes with Atlanta by adding the Upton brothers at the same time their pitching staffs are the youngest in MLB. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

     

     

    It's too short of a sample to decide. Iggy's batting .302 with Detroit after a slow start, so good for him, although only two of 19 hits are extra bases. On the other hand, in the short term, it really hasn't hurt the Sox. Middlebrooks is hitting better at 3B and Drew is hitting better at SS.

    So the Sox still are better in the lineup albeit a bit worse in the field. On the whole IMO, it's a net gain. Peavy has pitched well in three of four starts, even if he is just a six-inning pitcher.

    So for now, I believe the Sox are better with Middlebrooks-Drew-Peavy than they would be with Iggy-Drew-Workman or Middlebrooks-Iggy-Workman. 

    Let's revisit this trade at the end of the year and at the end of next season. 

     

     



    As I have said before, Peavy was brought here as a "win now" alternative to the off season plan of rebuilding character, winning mentality and a great clubhouse. If the Red Sox are merely a .500 team and looking at no playoffs, they do not make this trade.

     

     

    So the logical man would say, a Red Sox team going deep into the playoffs is all you need to justify this trade.

    If they fail to make the grade, if they lose early in the playoffs. this trade is a mistake.

    If they win it all or advance to the WS, I would have to back down from my stance and agree with all those who say this was a very good trade.

    I am a logical man. This was a trade not about personal stats, but about how far it takes the team in postseason.

     



    That's why I said let's revist this trade at the end of the season. Right now, all we have to go on his personal statistics.

     

    And how the Sox do in regard to postseason this year (and next considering Peavy is signed through next year) is a big part of evaluating the trade but a bit simplistic too.

    Is it a good trade if the Sox win the W.S., Peavy doesn't pitch in the postseason and has a 9.33 ERA the reat of the year while Iggy bats .350 the rest of the year with Detroit?

    Is it a bad trade if Peavy has a 0.75 ERA the rest of the year, Iggy bats .125 and is benched for Detroit and the Sox don't make the playoffs or lose in the W.C. game; and next year Peavy goes 17-5 with a 2.24 ERA, Iggy bats .180 as a part-time player yet the Sox don't make the playoffs?

    Those are extreme examples of course, but it illustrates my point.

    My main point, however, remains -- let's revist the trade at the end of this year then again at the end of next year?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I did not like this trade when it happened. I don't like it now. I am sure I will like it even less in the future. A trade deadline, panic move. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    So for all of you who didnt like the trade, what was your plan to address the pitching need this team had?  What is funny is I have asked this same question a few times now and no one has the answer.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: do you still like the trade?

    Pitching wins in this league and we were down Buch so it had to be done.  Iggy is a talented fielder that could turn into a hitter but would never be an elite type of hitter.  With Bogaerts being the next great all around player the front office had to decide what to do quickly to help this team now.  So I would say the trade is a good one for the Sox because we are still in the hunt and Peavy has pitched well....the point to look at also is we have someone to replace Iggy who projects to be the better all around player.  

     
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