Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BS10FAN. Show BS10FAN's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  



    I agree I just watched the end of this..Kimbrel just standing in the pen watching the season slip away..Pirates will advance and face the Dodgers..much better match up

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    Dodgers look beatable to me. You are right though about Kimbrel.... he could pitch 2 innings in his sleep. He is the best closer in the game year in and year out in my opinion.



    I don't claim to be qualified to be an MLB manager. But I know stupidity when I see it. If I am going down, I am going down with my best. It is much easier to defend Grady Little than the Braves manager. To blow your entire season , with Kimbrel standing in the bullpen , is grounds for losing your job. 

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    Totally agree Kimbrel should've been in there for the 2 inn save. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    I found the Sox piching changes last night interesting--Especially Workman and Morales--In addition to pulling Ortiz and WMB for pinch runners.

    I got the feeling-I may be the only person on the planet feeling this way:

    A. JF possibly thinking he would outduel Maddon on moves and surprise moves or

    B. He felt this game was not the biggest and most important esp. after blowing the three run lead.

    My concern about Farrell is that he doesn't play percentages. Okay hindsight is 20/20--seldom , if ever, does he walk the opposing batters best hitter---last night he had 1 B open with Longoria coming up. That's a big moment. Maddon would not let Ortiz beat him with runners on---no way. If Napoli beats him it's the pitchers fault. If Myers beats Buch it's Buch's fault---but the manager with the game under control doesn't let the best hitter beat him.

    JF continually plays the card and doesn't pitch around him---Percentages are against you JF, beware.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    I found the Sox piching changes last night interesting--Especially Workman and Morales--In addition to pulling Ortiz and WMB for pinch runners.

    I got the feeling-I may be the only person on the planet feeling this way:

    A. JF possibly thinking he would outduel Maddon on moves and surprise moves or

    B. He felt this game was not the biggest and most important esp. after blowing the three run lead.

    My concern about Farrell is that he doesn't play percentages. Okay hindsight is 20/20--seldom , if ever, does he walk the opposing batters best hitter---last night he had 1 B open with Longoria coming up. That's a big moment. Maddon would not let Ortiz beat him with runners on---no way. If Napoli beats him it's the pitchers fault. If Myers beats Buch it's Buch's fault---but the manager with the game under control doesn't let the best hitter beat him.

    JF continually plays the card and doesn't pitch around him---Percentages are against you JF, beware.



    If longoria walks to load the bases,chances are Buch still walks Myer and gives up a single to Zobrist, which still produces three runs and a tie game.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to BS10FAN's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  

     



    I agree I just watched the end of this..Kimbrel just standing in the pen watching the season slip away..Pirates will advance and face the Dodgers..much better match up

     



    I hope that you are right about the Pirates advancing.  I have said for a while that the only teams that I don't want to see advance are St. Louis and Tampa Bay.  It would be very disappointing for me to see St. Louis in the World Series this year.  They are always in the playoffs and have won the World Series recently.  It is better for MLB if another team wins this year. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    I found the Sox piching changes last night interesting--Especially Workman and Morales--In addition to pulling Ortiz and WMB for pinch runners.

    I got the feeling-I may be the only person on the planet feeling this way:

    A. JF possibly thinking he would outduel Maddon on moves and surprise moves or

    B. He felt this game was not the biggest and most important esp. after blowing the three run lead.

    My concern about Farrell is that he doesn't play percentages. Okay hindsight is 20/20--seldom , if ever, does he walk the opposing batters best hitter---last night he had 1 B open with Longoria coming up. That's a big moment. Maddon would not let Ortiz beat him with runners on---no way. If Napoli beats him it's the pitchers fault. If Myers beats Buch it's Buch's fault---but the manager with the game under control doesn't let the best hitter beat him.

    JF continually plays the card and doesn't pitch around him---Percentages are against you JF, beware.



    A couple more points about Farrell and Maddon last night.  First, Ortiz is better with RISP than Longoria, but both are worse when they go lefty vs. lefty or righty vs. righty, which is what Longoria faced in the 5th. Plus Buch had already gotten him out twice.  Plus Longoria did not hit the game winner, he only tied the game.  The Rays later went up one run only because of the Pedroia-Drew collision when Pedroia lost his balance on the grounder up the middle. 

    In retrospect, I think the 4th inning, in which Buch gave up 0 runs but needed 30 pitches thanks to lousy calls by the homeplate ump, set up the Rays rally in the 5th in which Buch was clearly struggling.  His fastball was up, he couldn't throw his breaking balls for strikes, etc.  And, as I said before, after Longoria's dinger, Buch walked Myers and gave up a single to Zobrist before getting the third out.  I was amazed when Buch came out for the 6th inning, but it was against the bottom of the Rays order and he got three pop outs. 

    I thought overall Farrell made several good moves last night.  People griped when Breslow only pitched against two batters, one of whom got a hit, but Tazawa did a great job to get the last two outs in the 7th, including a K for Longoria--again, righty vs. righty, but Tazawa wasn't tired as Buch was in the 5th.  The Rays run in the 8th was just bad luck for the Sox--collision on a very playable grounder.  Pinch-running, Berry for Ortiz, was also the right move, but the Sox lineup could not deliver on three straight at bats with a man on second, which Berry stole.  Later Carp went in as the DH, lefty vs. righty, and looked at a called third strike--not Farrell's fault, but worth noting he had a good lefty bat, Carp, for when and if Ortiz had to be taken out for a pinch runner.  Oh, sending Buch back out for the 6th was also a smart move even though I would never have done it because I thought Buch was through. 

    The dumbest thing Farrell did last night was to send out Uehara in the bottom of the 9th and left him in to face the most feared clutch hitter in the Rays lineup, the dreaded Lobaton, who hammered a splitter in the bottom of the strike zone.  When that happened, Farrell still had two starters, Dempster and Doubront, left to go extra innings, but the Rays got a huge break when Lobaton got lucky. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    I found the Sox piching changes last night interesting--Especially Workman and Morales--In addition to pulling Ortiz and WMB for pinch runners.

    I got the feeling-I may be the only person on the planet feeling this way:

    A. JF possibly thinking he would outduel Maddon on moves and surprise moves or

    B. He felt this game was not the biggest and most important esp. after blowing the three run lead.

    My concern about Farrell is that he doesn't play percentages. Okay hindsight is 20/20--seldom , if ever, does he walk the opposing batters best hitter---last night he had 1 B open with Longoria coming up. That's a big moment. Maddon would not let Ortiz beat him with runners on---no way. If Napoli beats him it's the pitchers fault. If Myers beats Buch it's Buch's fault---but the manager with the game under control doesn't let the best hitter beat him.

    JF continually plays the card and doesn't pitch around him---Percentages are against you JF, beware.



    Not really.

    In game 3, we had Vic on 3rd with 2 out and Maddon pitched to Papi.

    And Longoria only has 10 IBB this year, so it isn't like anyone else is walking him.  Walking Longoria would've been a terrible decision.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  



    That looked like a no-brainer to me.  You win or go home.  Kimbrel only pitched and inning or two the last week.  I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't bring him in there.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    Bottom line: Managerial decisions are judged by how they work out. Had Pedro finished Game 6 in the '03 ALCS, everyone would have praised Grady for showing faith in his ace.  As as for Farrell  not  walking Longoria, which hardly matters now, Buchholz strikes him out nobody even thinks about it.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Bottom line: Managerial decisions are judged by how they work out. Had Pedro finished Game 6 in the '03 ALCS, everyone would have praised Grady for showing faith in his ace.  As as for Farrell  not  walking Longoria, which hardly matters now, Buchholz strikes him out nobody even thinks about it.

     



    That's the way it usually works, but the decision should be judged on its merits, regardless of outcome.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  



    Is there any manager in MLB you consider your equal?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  

     



    Is there any manager in MLB you consider your equal?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think I made a valid point. In fact, I think it was a monumental blunder by Gonzalez. I would say that most would agree. And , all you can offer is a sarcastic comment. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  

     

     



    Is there any manager in MLB you consider your equal?

     

     



    I think I made a valid point. In fact, I think it was a monumental blunder by Gonzalez. I would say that most would agree. And , all you can offer is a sarcastic comment. 

     

     




    I thought so, too, when I first read it.  As far as who will stop the Dodgers,......we willCool

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    has Kimbrel pitched 2 inning saves before?  you cant just shove him out there for 2 full innings if all year they have been using an 8th inning guy.  4 outs?  maybe.  but not 2 full innings.  the days of Goose getting 3 inning saves have long passed......

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    Yeah, I agree with Slash.  Maybe, in hindsight, Freddie should have made a gutsy call and gone to Kimbrel in the 8th.  But, asking your closer to do something he has never ever done before in the most pivotal moment of the season is hardly a no-brainer.  

             
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  

     

     



    Is there any manager in MLB you consider your equal?

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think I made a valid point. In fact, I think it was a monumental blunder by Gonzalez. I would say that most would agree. And , all you can offer is a sarcastic comment. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It wasn't meant as sarcastic.

    You did make a valid point, but the way you bash managers, I had to wonder out loud, if there was anyone you felt could manage or make less blunders than you. I still am wondering.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    has Kimbrel pitched 2 inning saves before?  you cant just shove him out there for 2 full innings if all year they have been using an 8th inning guy.  4 outs?  maybe.  but not 2 full innings.  the days of Goose getting 3 inning saves have long passed......



    I disagree.  Rivera had many postseason saves 2 innings or longer.  In 2003 he went 3 innings against us.  He had back-to-back 2 inning outings in 2004.  He had 3 of them in 2009.  Papelbon had 5 of them in 2007-2008 postseason.  Foulke had a number of them.

    If Kimbrel wasn't prepared during the regular season for this kind of situation, that still falls on the manager. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    has Kimbrel pitched 2 inning saves before?  you cant just shove him out there for 2 full innings if all year they have been using an 8th inning guy.  4 outs?  maybe.  but not 2 full innings.  the days of Goose getting 3 inning saves have long passed......

     



    I disagree.  Rivera had many postseason saves 2 innings or longer.  In 2003 he went 3 innings against us.  He had back-to-back 2 inning outings in 2004.  He had 3 of them in 2009.  Papelbon had 5 of them in 2007-2008 postseason.  Foulke had a number of them.

     

    If Kimbrel wasn't prepared during the regular season for this kind of situation, that still falls on the manager. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure about the If/then statement.   Yes, Rivera could occasionally for the 2 inning stint.  But, by and large, the modern closer is a one inning specialist.  I am not sure this falls on the manager.  Seems like a larger baseball orthodoxy issue.  Roster construction changes significantly if you think of your closer as a multi-inning pitcher.  Every club has a set-up man.  Usually a dedicated 8th guy, and often a more-or-less dedicated 7th.  

    I fully agree that it is silly that a closer can only go 1 inning.  But, I do not think it is Freddie G's fault for not trying to change this fundamental orthodoxy, especially in the most important game of the year.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Not sure about the If/then statement.   Yes, Rivera could occasionally for the 2 inning stint.  But, by and large, the modern closer is a one inning specialist.  I am not sure this falls on the manager.  Seems like a larger baseball orthodoxy issue.  Roster construction changes significantly if you think of your closer as a multi-inning pitcher.  Every club has a set-up man.  Usually a dedicated 8th guy, and often a more-or-less dedicated 7th.  

    I fully agree that it is silly that a closer can only go 1 inning.  But, I do not think it is Freddie G's fault for not trying to change this fundamental orthodoxy, especially in the most important game of the year.



    I think the modern fundamental orthodoxy is more like this - you only use your closer for one inning, unless it's an emergency situation.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Dodgers, Braves and dumb managers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

        The Braves have one of the best closers in the game. Tonight, staring at elimination and clinging to a one run lead in the 8th, the manager went to his set up man, who promptly gave up two runs and the season. Why not use your closer for a two inning save with your entire season on the line ?  As for the Dodgers, who is going to stop them ?  

     

     

     



    Is there any manager in MLB you consider your equal?

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think I made a valid point. In fact, I think it was a monumental blunder by Gonzalez. I would say that most would agree. And , all you can offer is a sarcastic comment. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It wasn't meant as sarcastic.

     

    You did make a valid point, but the way you bash managers, I had to wonder out loud, if there was anyone you felt could manage or make less blunders than you. I still am wondering.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm trying to think of one. Be patient. 

     
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