Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wonderdrumstoo. Show wonderdrumstoo's posts

    Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    Im not going to state my personal preference as to what the Sox should do with Papi to avoid the critics but I do have a question.

     I get the feeling Papi is likely to get closer to the 16.5 he's asking for than the 12 and change the Sox offered. The going rate for his offensive production says he should make at least that. I guess the question Ill ask is signing Papi at 2yrs 22-24 million( if he'd sign it) better for them financially or do they let arbitration sort it out? I understand the market for the DH is on a downward trend but I dont see anyone else available to replace his production besides Fielder who will cost alot more. Signing him at 12 per season IS overpaying but Ill assume is still less than what he will earn through arbitration. Why would the Sox put themselves in this position? Am I missing something?

    You could argue that signing him is sort of a win-win. Papi wont feel disrespected and have his two year binky.  The "nation" or pink hats will be happy. The Sox save a little money that they can use with the Marco cash to get a starting pitcher. Thoughts and comments anyone? Remember I not saying they should, its just a question.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    By offering him arbitration, the Sox figured they'd either get the picks if he leaves or a very productive DH if he stays. Kind of a win/win. John Henry loves this guy, not only for what he's meant to the organization on the field, but he does a TON of charity work off the field. He took a bit of a home town discount at one point as well and by picking up his option last year, they were basically saying, "Thanks for everything." He ended up having a very productive year, so offering arbitration seemed reasonable. If this was anyone else in the world besides Ortiz with the same stats, no way they pay him that money at this point. Kind of like the money Jeter makes, despite not having the "stats" to justify it. I can't see this going before a panel of arbitrators, so my guess is it gets resolved at some point prior to...
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    In response to "Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?":
     If this was anyone else in the world besides Ortiz with the same stats, no way they pay him that money at this point. Kind of like the money Jeter makes, despite not having the "stats" to justify it. good recap I understand / agree with your point jasko2248 guys like ortiz & jeter have earned special considerations but ortiz had a heck of a yr power hitters with a 400 OBP cost money you guys should be thrilled to get him 4 only 1 yr and that goes double if  Iglesias replaces scoot yeah I understand the anti DH only  feelings but it didn't hurt that much in 04/07 . Posted by pinstripezac
    Thanks, Zac...he should have his number retired for what he did in '04 alone, but how quickly some fans forget...yeah, hoping Iglesias hits enough this spring to win the job...his glove is needed, especially with Youk lacking range at 3rd.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    If the arbitrator rules in favor of Ortiz---he 's not disrespected.
    If the arb. rules in favor of management ---the Sox didn't disrespect him.

    The Sox made a mistake offering him arb--they were hoping someone else would sign him and they would get the picks.

    If anything the AL teams disrespected Ortiz; he and his agent overestimated the market. He may have been better off taking the Sox offer before free agency @ 2 years @ $9 M per.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    In response to "Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?":
    If the arbitrator rules in favor of Ortiz---he 's not disrespected. If the arb. rules in favor of management ---the Sox didn't disrespect him. The Sox made a mistake offering him arb--they were hoping someone else would sign him and they would get the picks. If anything the AL teams disrespected Ortiz; he and his agent overestimated the market. He may have been better off taking the Sox offer before free agency @ 2 years @ $9 M per. Posted by MadMc44
    I'm guessing you have no idea how an arbitration case works, so ill try to explain it to you in layman's terms. It's a courtroom setting where Ortiz's people make a case why he's worth their figure while the Sox make a case why he is not worth the money he is asking for. How do they do that? They focus on all the negatives. No hard feelings? There are ALWAYS hard feelings, which is why this front office has never let a case go before the panel. Hope this helps you understand arbitration a little better...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    The ultimate decision is made by one person after all testimony is given that's the arbitrator. That person decides for the player or management. There is no question about the figure , it's either Ortiz's number or managements number. They will have had their opportunities to negotiate before they get to the arbitrator.

    If I'm Ortiz and his agent--I keep quiet or David may find himself looking for a new team after the ruling. JH does not need David as much as David needs the Sox.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    In Response to Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?:
    The ultimate decision is made by one person after all testimony is given that's the arbitrator. That person decides for the player or management. There is no question about the figure , it's either Ortiz's number or managements number. They will have had their opportunities to negotiate before they get to the arbitrator. If I'm Ortiz and his agent--I keep quiet or David may find himself looking for a new team after the ruling. JH does not need David as much as David needs the Sox.
    Posted by MadMc44


    Ortiz has 10-5 rights though, so he can't be traded without his consent.  Arb hearings always bring out the worst in people, it's not a coincidences that players that go to an arb hearing almost never sign extensions with their team afterwards.  Not that the Sox are looking to bring him back after this anyways.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    In response to "Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?":
    The ultimate decision is made by one person after all testimony is given that's the arbitrator. That person decides for the player or management. There is no question about the figure , it's either Ortiz's number or managements number. They will have had their opportunities to negotiate before they get to the arbitrator. If I'm Ortiz and his agent--I keep quiet or David may find himself looking for a new team after the ruling. JH does not need David as much as David needs the Sox. Posted by MadMc44
    I know how it works...you're missing the point...no team ever wants to have to present a case explaining why they don't think their player is worth what he thinks he is in front of the player....nothing good comes out of it...ideally they settle before it gets to that point. You're severely underestimating how much Henry likes Ortiz...they would never just "cut him" because he won an arbitration battle.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    My comment on another thread re JH--I'm sure he insisted on offering arb and had a figure in mind. I don't believe offering Ortiz more than $9 per was BenC's or Theo's idea. Everyone loves Papi except right now, when JH wants him and is willing to go over the LT to keep him, he ties BC's hands.

    All I'm saying is if Ortiz crosses the line and disrespects the org. for being too cheap, if he loses arb, that will cross the line with JH enough, friendship aside, for him to be declared a FA on one of the two drop dead dates.

    Since we have a little more two months before Opening Day there is plenty of time to make major changes. Youk could slde into the everyday DH role and they surely have people that can play 3 b. In addition with Ortiz's money Jackson, Oswalt, Floyd and the plethora of released players will round the team out.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    In response to "Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?":
    My comment on another thread re JH--I'm sure he insisted on offering arb and had a figure in mind. I don't believe offering Ortiz more than $9 per was BenC's or Theo's idea. Everyone loves Papi except right now, when JH wants him and is willing to go over the LT to keep him, he ties BC's hands. All I'm saying is if Ortiz crosses the line and disrespects the org. for being too cheap, if he loses arb, that will cross the line with JH enough, friendship aside, for him to be declared a FA on one of the two drop dead dates. Since we have a little more two months before Opening Day there is plenty of time to make major changes. Youk could slde into the everyday DH role and they surely have people that can play 3 b. In addition with Ortiz's money Jackson, Oswalt, Floyd and the plethora of released players will round the team out. Posted by MadMc44
    None of this makes any sense. So you don't think "Ben or Theo" would have put in an arb figure of more than 9 million?! He had the best numbers of any DH and an arbitrator is going to award him a 25% pay cut!? None of the people you mentioned come up with these figures by the way. They have people on staff who crunch those numbers for a living. Kevin Youkillis doesn't want to DH, they don't have the $ for "Jackson, Floyd and Oswalt" and they are not making any "major changes" at this point.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Does arbitration make sense for Papi and the Sox?

    I may be wrong but I believe there was a two year offer on the table for $9 M per before players declared for FA. This was still about 25% more than the going rate for DH's. $18 M in hand is better than $12 +M  in the bush---that's what I've heard-no one has made me that kind of offer.
     
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