DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    While Cherington must suffer the indignity of sitting on his hands while all legit free agents are snatched up, I assure you The Nation is far too sophisticated to hold him to blame for what Henry has decreed by his unwillingnes to spend. While John mopes about on his yacht all day, shedding tears for a spoiled brat he feels betrayed him, the Red Sox fans are left wondering when the big boys in charge are going to step up to the plate. One gets the distinct impression that Henry/Werner are perfectly content to tank this season, and try to lay it at Luchino's feet. He was the one who harped about Theo's ineptitude, and finally forced Henry+Werner to admit the truth. He is the convenient scapegoat for Theo's decision to leave a year early, though the fact that sheLackey was about to announce plans to miss the next 2yrs was probably a more important reason. So now Henry resents him, in a classic "shoot the messenger" response. Sheesh! Grow up already!! Give this team the tools it needs to compete. Cherington deserves better than to be ordered to sit in the corner and pretend, to a skeptical fan base, that he's truly trying to sign free agents and to field a winning team THIS SEASON. If this ownership group allows this team, so close to being able to compete, to fail, it will be a shameful act far more damaging to fan morale than last seasons epic collapse. And a restless Nation will be forced to ask the question: are we being taken for granted? Is the team with the highest ticket prices in all of baseball, just raised again THIS season, really unable to compete in the market against the likes of the Florida Marlins or Toronto Blue Jays? Puleeeeeeeeze! We do realize the Red Sox spent well for last seasons team. We get it. But we are 3-4 peices away from competing for a ring this season, and we categorically reject the notion that these can be filled on the cheap from within. Failure is NEVER and option for a true Red Sox fan, and it shouldn't be for the owners and management either. Oh, and if that makes us "difficult fans", then it's a tile we will bear with honor. It's who we are, and it's part of what makes us the best fans in baseball.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    The team was built to win last year. If the core players who failed last season come back and fail again it won't matter what else we do. The bullpen is the main issue along with one key starter (who they will trade for imo).  The offense if Ortiz comes back is set until July.

    Minor moves and one good trade for a pitcher is all that we will see.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    I'm not sayin that Henry has a case of the cheapseys but the RS contingent aren't staying at the swanky hotel they had Tom Bodette leave the lights on for them...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    We don't need to make a splash we still have Youk's nasty sweat for that.  Then again he'll probably only be around for 50 or so games.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    You're babbling, on the verge of incoherent.

    Just because we haven't made 6 trades and signed 6 players in the first three days of the meetings doesn't mean we're doomed.

    Last year, we traded for Gonzo on 12/6, and signed CC on 12/11, and Wheelr and Jenks later in december.  The best move, Aceves, wasn't signed until Feb 8th.

    The previous year, Lackey was signed on 12/14 and Beltre on January 4th.

    Dice was signed on 12/14, and Drew on February 14th.

    For comparison purposes, CC was signed on 12/20, Burnett on 12/12, and Teixeira on January 6th.

    You seem to lack an understanding of signing time lines.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Of course if the "core" of any team fails, that team is doomed to failure for that season. But part of why we failed was a permissive/dysfunctional culture which hopefully won't be in place this year. But we've also lost Paps and need to replace him. We can't have AAA quality right fielders, like we had all last season. We won't have Dice back till August, and no idea if he'll be effective, so we need at least 1 solid starter. Florida just grabbed Buehrle, so that just drove up the rest of the starters prices. I hate to say it, but I'm hearing they're actually planning to bring Wakefield back. ACK! Are you freaking kidding me? I don't care if it's for the league minimum, it's still stupid. Oh well....like everyone else I'm just watching and not liking what I see. Maybe they'll surprise me, but it sure looks like the check book is closed for 2012. Could they be believers in that whole Mayan Calandar thingy? Never can tell.




    In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]The team was built to win last year. If the core players who failed last season come back and fail again it won't matter what else we do. The bullpen is the main issue along with one key starter (who they will trade for imo).  The offense if Ortiz comes back is set until July. Minor moves and one good trade for a pitcher is all that we will see.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    All the best FAs have not been signed, and the ones that have were way overpaid.

    Tell us the FAs, we should have outbid to get...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    The team payroll is like $160mill, and will probably be higher.  Can we stop playing the "why are they going cheap" charade anytime now?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]All the best FAs have not been signed, and the ones that have were way overpaid. Tell us the FAs, we should have outbid to get...
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    And  the Sox have been linked in trades for Andrew Bailey, John Niese, Jon Danks, Gavin Floyd, Koji Uehara and Mark Lowe.  And who knows how many others

    Not to mention, there are 3 closers left seeking closing jobs, and only 2 teams actively seeking a closer. Upper hand to who?  And since Cincy and Boston are both playing the same game, it might force both Madson and K-Rod into accepting arbitration. 

    Want to see a GM desperate to make a deal?  Talk to Doug Melvin right after he realizes he has a $14mill setup guy and only 2 infielders. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    It's not a matter of when players are signed Joe, it's a matter of what players remain in the talent pool available TO BE SIGNED. Do you really want to be forced to give up 5 prospects to roll the dice on a Gio, who may or may not be the real deal? I sure don't. Had we signed Paps we'd have had the flexibility to let the market play out a bit. But now we have too many needs to dawdle as if we didn't. I said before this was going to be a fast moving off season, and it's panning out exactly that way.  





    In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]You're babbling, on the verge of incoherent. Just because we haven't made 6 trades and signed 6 players in the first three days of the meetings doesn't mean we're doomed. Last year, we traded for Gonzo on 12/6, and signed CC on 12/11, and Wheelr and Jenks later in december.  The best move, Aceves, wasn't signed until Feb 8th. The previous year, Lackey was signed on 12/14 and Beltre on January 4th. Dice was signed on 12/14, and Drew on February 14th. For comparison purposes, CC was signed on 12/20, Burnett on 12/12, and Teixeira on January 6th. You seem to lack an understanding of signing time lines.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]It's not a matter of when players are signed Joe, it's a matter of what players remain in the talent pool available TO BE SIGNED. Do you really want to be forced to give up 5 prospects to roll the dice on a Gio, who may or may not be the real deal? I sure don't. Had we signed Paps we'd have had the flexibility to let the market play out a bit. But now we have too many needs to dawdle as if we didn't. I said before this was going to be a fast moving off season, and it's panning out exactly that way.   In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE? :
    Posted by Teakus[/QUOTE]

    Had we signed Paps, we might have no money in the budget.  I know Ortiz costs about the same, but he is only for one season.  Maybe two.

    The closer situation will be fine.  There are 3 closers left and only 2 teams.  Unless someone gets back in, the closers might be willing to deal before the music stops.  Especially Cordero, who cannot fall back on arbitration.  (Of course, he is a pretty awful closer at this point, too.)

    We do need 3 pitchers, but the trade market isn't moving around.  How many decent SPs have been traded?  How many have been rumored?  The sox have been linked to every available starter except Gonzalez.

    They are working it, just not spending it.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE? : And  the Sox have been linked in trades for Andrew Bailey, John Niese, Jon Danks, Gavin Floyd, Koji Uehara and Mark Lowe.  And who knows how many others Not to mention, there are 3 closers left seeking closing jobs, and only 2 teams actively seeking a closer. Upper hand to who?  And since Cincy and Boston are both playing the same game, it might force both Madson and K-Rod into accepting arbitration.  Want to see a GM desperate to make a deal?  Talk to Doug Melvin right after he realizes he has a $14mill setup guy and only 2 infielders. 
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    notin, you are going to have to stop posting here...

                                    ...you just make too much sense.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Had we signed Paps we'd have had the flexibility to let the market play out a bit. 



    Had we signed Paps and then had the Papi arb, right now we'd be at about $176M. What "flexibility" is that? 

    If we stay around the tax limit, we'd have about $2-5M to spend on SP, SP, RP, RP, & RF.

    It's too easy for us to just casually tell John Henry to spend as much as the Yanks. We don't have anywhere near the revenue stream they have.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Note that the Yanks are standing pat as far as FAs are concerned.  They will most likely make a trade or two for pitching, but they are not spending cash.  The Sox - if they had to go with no additions - would still be a top tier team even in the AL East.  I think they will make a trade for a starting pitcher before this is over.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    He's saving $$$ to sign ellsbury.  When they announce that - people will be happy.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Ellsbury has zero chance of staying in Boston.  Please don''t be one of those fans who's shocked (!) when he leaves.

    So, the premise of this thread is because the Sox haven't "signed" someone in 3 days in Dallas that John Henry (when did he start working the phones?" is "standing pat?"  Huh?

    The team needs minor tweaking. A couple SP maybe less if Bard moves into the rotation.  Filling the bullpen as always. Paps was never staying.  No one else has been signed that the Sox want. They could use a major league RH RF'er.

    Plenty o time, Grasshopper.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Geez. Can we at least wait until the spring training to see what the team looks like when it reports before we start ripping an owner who will still end up with one of the top two or three payrolls in the game. (Gee -- what a cheapskate).

    This team had the best record in the A.L. after five months, so the talent is there. If it was that Francona lost the team at the end, then should bringing in Valentine be the major move necessary.

    This is the first week of December. Is it too much to ask for the everyone to take a holiday break until after the new year before the btching begins.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Its on the players not the owner, all of it. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    In Response to Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]Had we signed Paps we'd have had the flexibility to let the market play out a bit.  Had we signed Paps and then had the Papi arb, right now we'd be at about $176M. What "flexibility" is that?  If we stay around the tax limit, we'd have about $2-5M to spend on SP, SP, RP, RP, & RF. It's too easy for us to just casually tell John Henry to spend as much as the Yanks. We don't have anywhere near the revenue stream they have.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, Moon.  I just love his AND your responses...succinct and to the point.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    In Response to DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?:
    [QUOTE]While Cherington must suffer the indignity of sitting on his hands while all legit free agents are snatched up, I assure you The Nation is far too sophisticated to hold him to blame for what Henry has decreed by his unwillingnes to spend. While John mopes about on his yacht all day, shedding tears for a spoiled brat he feels betrayed him, the Red Sox fans are left wondering when the big boys in charge are going to step up to the plate. One gets the distinct impression that Henry/Werner are perfectly content to tank this season, and try to lay it at Luchino's feet. He was the one who harped about Theo's ineptitude, and finally forced Henry+Werner to admit the truth. He is the convenient scapegoat for Theo's decision to leave a year early, though the fact that sheLackey was about to announce plans to miss the next 2yrs was probably a more important reason. So now Henry resents him, in a classic "shoot the messenger" response. Sheesh! Grow up already!! Give this team the tools it needs to compete. Cherington deserves better than to be ordered to sit in the corner and pretend, to a skeptical fan base, that he's truly trying to sign free agents and to field a winning team THIS SEASON. If this ownership group allows this team, so close to being able to compete, to fail, it will be a shameful act far more damaging to fan morale than last seasons epic collapse. And a restless Nation will be forced to ask the question: are we being taken for granted? Is the team with the highest ticket prices in all of baseball, just raised again THIS season, really unable to compete in the market against the likes of the Florida Marlins or Toronto Blue Jays? Puleeeeeeeeze! We do realize the Red Sox spent well for last seasons team. We get it. But we are 3-4 peices away from competing for a ring this season, and we categorically reject the notion that these can be filled on the cheap from within. Failure is NEVER and option for a true Red Sox fan, and it shouldn't be for the owners and management either. Oh, and if that makes us "difficult fans", then it's a tile we will bear with honor. It's who we are, and it's part of what makes us the best fans in baseball.
    Posted by Teakus[/QUOTE]

    You are so funny! When was the last time you spent 300 Million on two players? I wish i was that cheap. So what your trying to say is that Henry should outbid every team just to make cry babies like you happy.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Ahhh! Some here apparantly think that fixing what needs fixing on our team should be free of cost? Hmmm....if only life were that easy! And may I say, as always, John Henry and the boys appreciate the efforts of many here to guard their wallets. Kudos to you, and you know who you are!! As for the rest of us, we're actually hoping for what all true fans hope for: a chance to win a World Series ring. Not to be "a good team" or simply making the playoffs, we want a legit chance for a ring. But due to some blunderous moves by our former "boy wonder" and some bad luck, we have some major needs right now. We have no closer and a bullpen filled with buffoons with the exception of Bard+Aceves. We need another starter, ( and no...Bard should not be converted to a starter or made the closer...yet. He's exactly where he needs to be this year), and possibly two if Buch's back problems continue. The parade of tripple A players occupying right field was a joke, we simply need to wrap up a true major leaguer and be done with it. But I am certainly not claiming the end of the world draws nigh, only that this team is simply too good and too expensive to be allowed to fail this season. The only thing worse than having a low payroll and no chance to win, is having a high payroll and no chance to win! This is not the time to clamp down on spending, quite the contrary! It's exactly the time to get the required pieces at all cost. Failure to do so would be penny wise and pound foolish.

    Some good thoughts to consider:
    1. It's likely that anywhere from $6.4-9.6 million of Lackey's contract for 2012 is covered by insurance.
    2. As crazy as it sounds, Dice K could be of help in August.
    3. Youk should be back with his big bat. Valentine should be able to help him recover from some of the, ahem, controversies of last season.

    P.S.

    One final thought and part of why I'm so irked with out front office/ownership this offseason. David Ortiz could have been had for $10 plus incentives for this season and next. His agent was feverishly trying to get a deal done in October, but met with a disinterested front office. We foolishly tried to jam him for two lousy million, and what was the result?: We offered him arbitration and will now be paying him $15 million for this year, and he'll either walk or be paid even more for the following year. It's just the kind of "death by a thousand cuts" mistake Theo would have made. You guys ok with spending $5 million...on nothing? I'm sure not.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    Why is it that at the begining of the year were saying that we had one of the best team ever, going to win 100 games, etc.   Yet now, with basically the same guys, everyone thinks we stink and need a major over haul.

    We are only short 2 guys right now that we didn't have last year.  Lackey (which actually makes us even better) and Papelbon.   They are aware they need a closer.  The reason why they are talking to the A's about Baily and I am sure have other plans as well.  After that, they really don't need much.  Sure, maybe another back end of the rotation starter and a couple of 5th-8th inning bullpen guys, but these aren't major positions that we all should be that worried about to where we are bashing ownership over.   How many teams have great #5 starters?   Plus we have a great offense to help counter act this scenario.

    Our problem last year was not the players we had, but their attitudes.  The Sox took care of our major weakness when they hired Valentine.  So, other than a couple of minor tweaks (and a closer) we should be very happy with what we have for next year.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    True. The team needs to fix itself with some minor pen help. We should not think we can just buy the answer.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: DOES JOHN HENRY TRULY BELIEVE HE CAN STAND PAT THIS OFF SEASON WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE?

    John Henry will accept contentment with mediocrity for 2012 knowing full well that the luxury tax is not an option.     The salaries of Gonzalez, Crawford, Lackey, and Beckett through 2014 and beyond keep the team hamstrung from taking on substantially more in payroll.    Cherington knew this when he accepted the title of general manager and looking for low cost players will be his modus operandi.
    John Henry figures that the 100th anniversary of Ye Olde Ballpark in 2012 will see fans wanting to be part of the "experience" and overlook the shortcomings of where the team is in the standings.
    As long as the turnstiles keep clicking there's no need to panic.
     

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