Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    I spent an entire winter defending Beckett.  I spent much time defending Ellsbury.  All I read is that Oki must go and that he suks.  Beckett has been spectacular but many wanted him gone and not extended.  Ellsbury finally got healthy and is showing us again why he has so much upside.  Oki went down and worked.  He got the call and was fabulous last night.  There is much to be positive about and I just don't see the same level of passion on the positive side that I do on the negative.  Why is that?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    I'm with you Jim. I was also for bringing Oki back this year and am not surprised he is looking back on track. Just because I mentioned he had declined (declined from greatness can still be very good), I was labeled anti-Japanese.

    I don't mind people being critical of our players, but so many go way beyond constructive criticism and into the realm of disdain, contempt and hatred.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]I spent an entire winter defending Beckett.  I spent much time defending Ellsbury.  All I read is that Oki must go and that he suks.  Beckett has been spectacular but many wanted him gone and not extended.  Ellsbury finally got healthy and is showing us again why he has so much upside.  Oki went down and worked.  He got the call and was fabulous last night.  There is much to be positive about and I just don't see the same level of passion on the positive side that I do on the negative.  Why is that?
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    Been wondering that myself, Jim.

    I think that people start getting a little negative ... and bit by biit it adds up to an outlook.

    Sorta like the Sahara ... it expands at about 5 to 6 inches a year.  Doesn't sound like much considering the vastness of that sand sea, but it has slowly buried the top part of the African continent.

    And like the inexorable march of the Sahara, the negativity just pushes out any possibility of thinking and expressing positive ways of viewing things.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    I'm not telling either of you what you don't know already.  They nay-sayers predominate here in part because their threads elicit the most reaction.  softy's Iggy thread is a perfect example--find a way to compliment one player while dissing three others (Ellsbury, Crawford and Lowrie).  And look at the attention and comments it draws, including one from yours truly.

    I was glad when they signed Oki, as he was a proven Lefty reliever.  Turns out he is needed.  I wanted to believe Beckett could come back and believed that Spring training was not a good measure of his return to health and productivity.  And no one who was being reasonable was expecting Ellsbury to stay injured and hit below the Mendoza line in 2011.  Most anticipated his return to the lineup, I believe.  But the positive voices have been shouted down by the few and prolific minority.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from The-Babe-1. Show The-Babe-1's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]I'm with you Jim. I was also for bringing Oki back this year and am not surprised he is looking back on track. Just because I mentioned he had declined (declined from greatness can still be very good), I was labeled anti-Japanese. I don't mind people being critical of our players, but so many go way beyond constructive criticism and into the realm of disdain, contempt and hatred.

    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    excuse me, but I don't think oki ever qualified for "greatness".

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    It should swing both ways Jim...Unfortunately some on this board only come here to annoy and not add anything of worth. I too was behind Beckett from the start. I have posted many times on this. But thats what makes this board active..disagreement..Some are waaay OTT ie; softy/GM in their views, but have their place nonetheless. I dont get worked up over those kinds of posters, I know what their doing...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    Great posts guys.  I guess I know the answer to the question but sometimes I like to post to get a gauge as to where everyone stands.  I get caught up in the responses...as you all know...because where I live, everyone thinks the Sox are one of the best teams in the league and are not fooled by the start of the season.  These are Yankee fans being more positive about the Sox and their chances than Sox fans!  When I tell them about all the nonsense on the forum, they can't believe it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    Jim the only thing I can see is some had a point of letting 2011 end before the Red Sox offered Beckett a new deal - the Red Sox can afford to let a guy play it out and pay the extra money if they want to re-sign him.

    That said, I am a huge Beckett fan and I had no problem with them inking a new deal - I did though understand those who said to wait.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]I spent an entire winter defending Beckett.  I spent much time defending Ellsbury.  All I read is that Oki must go and that he suks.  Beckett has been spectacular but many wanted him gone and not extended.  Ellsbury finally got healthy and is showing us again why he has so much upside.  Oki went down and worked.  He got the call and was fabulous last night.  There is much to be positive about and I just don't see the same level of passion on the positive side that I do on the negative.  Why is that?
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    Hey Jim,
    Not all of us are critical. We get angry and disappointed but we dont trash our Sox!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : excuse me, but I don't think oki ever qualified for "greatness".
    Posted by The-Babe-1[/QUOTE]

    OK, I know you love to quibble over qualitative description, and if you hold Mariano Rivera up as the yardstick for greatness, no, Oki was never great.  But in 07, a year in which he was integral in the Sox winning the division, pennant and the world series, Oki was ... GREAT.  Dude had a WHIP under 1, a 2.22 ERA, and (and this is what made him great in my eyes) averaged over 8 ks per nine innings pitching the ball between 32-34 mph.  From that pinnacle of ... really goodness? ... he has slipped.  That is all that was being said.  Your quibbles are somewhat trite.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : That's because you live in jersey. Geez I wish they would have moved the mets there and the Giants back to NY. Then just build a fence around the state to keep you all inside.
    Posted by The-Babe-1[/QUOTE]

    What does this post even mean?  This is what I'm talkiing about.  A reasonable discussion gets highjacked by doofuses...Or is that dufye in the plural?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : Hey Jim, Not all of us are critical. We get angry and disappointed but we dont trash our Sox!
    Posted by promise4you[/QUOTE]

    This is true promise.  You have to admit that the trashers are louder and have more staying power.  Here is an example...Andrewmitch trashed Crawford relentlessly.  Now that the guy has started to come up big, where is the pendulum swing back the other way?  Instead Andrewmitch vanishes.  When the Sox win, the board is quiet.  People love misery, I guess.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    I have said this for ever on this forum.
    Despite winning 2 WS the RS fans have forever and always waited for them to lose. That does not go away just because of the 2 WS. It is the blood and history of ALL RS fans. We are never happy until the last out and we know they won. Even then we start fretting about the next game almost immediately. One poster showed how Lackey and Dice had like a 1.00 ERA in 2/3 of their starts. It was 2 bad games for Lackey and 1 for Dice. So guess which ones are always brought up Yeppers the 3 bad ones. It was just like Paps last year and 8 BS. It was common to hear Bard was taking his place because he was better. Never mind Bard had 7 BS in 10 SVO. Never mind Paps still had 37 saves. Trade the bastartd.

    Too many only look at today which alway skewers their thought process and any link to reality.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    I don't mind people being critical of our players, but so many go way beyond constructive criticism and into the realm of disdain, contempt and hatred.

    I'll never understand this. Some of the vitriol directed at guys like Tek and Wake (who have done so much for the team) for the crime of getting old is unbelievable, while if Lackey, Beckett, or Dice-K has a bad game people react like their lives have been ruined.

    I don't see the point in calling yourself a fan of a baseball team if you hate half its players on any given day.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    Some do it to get our goat! And sometimes we let them succeed! Which means we failed. I love to read others thoughts on the game, on players, I cannot get into the ultra stats, if i did id be so consumed id forget to see that great diving catch, that seeing eye ground ball that drives in a key run, or a pitcher throwing a perfect pitch when the pressure is on, a relay throw to the plate that is blocked perfectly until the ball arrives to the catcher. So much to enjoy about this great game.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    Oh by the way, when I get angry at my sox i go to the garage and kick my golf bag. They can't hit a ball either!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:

    Yes, the pendulum does swing both ways, positive performances get positive responses and negative performances get negative responses. For example

    Papelbon +
    Lowrie    +
    Papi       +
    Gonzalez +
    Beckett   +
    Lester     +
    Ellsbury   +

    Drew       -
    Wake      -
    Lackey    -
    Salty      -

    Subject to change as the season progresses and as individual player's performances go up or down. :)
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    I'm not in the habit of criticizing players, I don't believe any player intentionally performs poorly,  but for those who do, I understand why they are vocal when players are not performing well. Every player is expected to perform to the top of his ability. When they do, it's expected. When they perform below their abilities, it's not expected and it's not what they're paid to do. Consequently there will be people that will bring the under performing players to the attention of all.
    It's similar to fans asking me to give Francona credit when the team wins instead of constantly being negative about his managing abilities when he contributes to losses. He is paid to help the team win, that's what is expected of him. In my opinion, he has a negative impact on far too many games throughout the season. So I will continue to comment on what is not expected of him and let his salary be his credit for doing what is expected.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]I'm not in the habit of criticizing players, I don't believe any player intentionally performs poorly,  but for those who do, I understand why they are vocal when players are not performing well. Every player is expected to perform to the top of his ability. When they do, it's expected. When they perform below their abilities, it's not expected and it's not what they're paid to do. Consequently there will be people that will bring the under performing players to the attention of all. It's similar to fans asking me to give Francona credit when the team wins instead of constantly being negative about his managing abilities when he contributes to losses. He is paid to help the team win, that's what is expected of him. In my opinion, he has a negative impact on far too many games throughout the season. So I will continue to comment on what is not expected of him and let his salary be his credit for doing what is expected.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    There would be merit to this thesis, Bosox, if your comments were ever anything more than redundant, unspecific slams of Francona.  If you were to limit them to specific critiques of what he is doing to contribute to specific losses, you would have more credibility.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : There would be merit to this thesis, Bosox, if your comments were ever anything more than redundant, unspecific slams of Francona.  If you were to limit them to specific critiques of what he is doing to contribute to specific losses, you would have more credibility.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    spaceman, giving specifics would be redundant. Anyone that needs specifics simply needs to watch any 5 game stretch, Francona provides all the specifics with his abilities.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : spaceman, giving specifics would be redundant. Anyone that needs specifics simply needs to watch any 5 game stretch, Francona provides all the specifics with his abilities.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    ah, well Bosox, there's the rub.  I watch all 5 game stretches.  I won't stand here and say that Francona never makes a wrong move.  But your blanket negative assesment actually does require some backing up ... for the fools like myself who just don't see how bad he apparently is.  Most often, I find that, when you and your camp's line of attack is made specific, I tend to disagree with the egregiousness of Francona's supposed mistakes.  In general, i find that your camp is either critiquing with the armchair manager benefit of hindsight, not taking all the things that an actual manager has to take into consideration, or, most often, just not real long on baseball understanding.  Now, I will grant you that maybe I am the stupid one.  But I have played baseball, studied baseball and been an all-around baseball nut since I could walk.  And I do not see in any particular 5-game stretch just how very much he contributes to losses.  So, if you would be so kind, please elucidate me in the particular.  I am an open-minded person.  You can totally win me over to the in-spite-of-'Coma camp if you just give me a critical mass of specificity.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    If I may Spaceman please also show us who has been a better manager in MLB since 2004?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : ah, well Bosox, there's the rub.  I watch all 5 game stretches.  I won't stand here and say that Francona never makes a wrong move.  But your blanket negative assesment actually does require some backing up ... for the fools like myself who just don't see how bad he apparently is.  Most often, I find that, when you and your camp's line of attack is made specific, I tend to disagree with the egregiousness of Francona's supposed mistakes.  In general, i find that your camp is either critiquing with the armchair manager benefit of hindsight, not taking all the things that an actual manager has to take into consideration, or, most often, just not real long on baseball understanding.  Now, I will grant you that maybe I am the stupid one.  But I have played baseball, studied baseball and been an all-around baseball nut since I could walk.  And I do not see in any particular 5-game stretch just how very much he contributes to losses.  So, if you would be so kind, please elucidate me in the particular.  I am an open-minded person.  You can totally win me over to the in-spite-of-'Coma camp if you just give me a critical mass of specificity.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    If you are truly serious, and you don't see his lack of managing abilities, there is nothing I can say or do to convince you that he's a poor manager. I don't have the desire to try to educate you to my way of thinking. You watch the same games that I watch, we simply see them from a different perspective.  I listened to the 1946 World Series on the radio with my Dad.  Being from Cape Cod originally, we, my Dad, my brother and Iwere NY Giant fans in the 50s. When, as a teenager, I read, in the Boston news paper, a column by a writer named John Gillooly(?) saying that the Giants paid rent to the Yankees to use Yankee Stadium on Sundays, I became an instant Cleveland Brown fan. I too have loved baseball since I could walk. Just as there is no way you could convince me that Francona is even a decent major league manager, I couldn't convince you that he isn't. It's my opinion and your opinion. That's all it is.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways? : If you are truly serious, and you don't see his lack of managing abilities, there is nothing I can say or do to convince you that he's a poor manager. I don't have the desire to try to educate you to my way of thinking. You watch the same games that I watch, we simply see them from a different perspective.  I listened to the 1946 World Series on the radio with my Dad.  Being from Cape Cod originally, we, my Dad, my brother and Iwere NY Giant fans in the 50s. When, as a teenager, I read, in the Boston news paper, a column by a writer named John Gillooly(?) saying that the Giants paid rent to the Yankees to use Yankee Stadium on Sundays, I became an instant Cleveland Brown fan. I too have loved baseball since I could walk. Just as there is no way you could convince me that Francona is even a decent major league manager, I couldn't convince you that he isn't. It's my opinion and your opinion. That's all it is.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Maybe this is true Bosox.  Its just that, like I said, I actually am open-minded.  I don't think Terry is the second-coming of sliced-bread, but i do think he is a decent manager with the right make-up to take the helm in a pressure cooker like Boston.  I am open to understanding Francona's transgressions.  But, like I said, when presented with what they are in specifics, I would venture to say two-thirds of the time I can refute the notion with specifics of baseball.  Sometimes I can't, and, in these times, i certainly recognize that the man is not Earl Weaver.  But, I  believe that you let your own passionate dislike that you have built up cloud your vision of him.  The more you gird your stance with your generalized hateful attacks, the less likely you are to be able to see the whole picture.  I am trying to see the whole picture.  I would hope that a good baseball man like yourself would be too.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?

    In Response to Re: Does the Pendulum Swing Both Ways?:
    [QUOTE]If I may Spaceman please also show us who has been a better manager in MLB since 2004?
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Jim, I understand that you believe he is an excellent manager. I believe he is a less than average manager, much less.  As to who has been a better manager, I do not care about the abilities of other managers. I believe that Francona has a negative impact on far too many games to be considered a decent major manager. Plain and simple.
     
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