DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/10/2011 4:48 PM EDT
just amazing watching our team right now esp in comparison to teams like the yanks. we lose 2 pitching starters and we have so much depth, the guys actually do better than both guys they replaced and have better career resumes. aceves has the best all-time winning percentage (better than lester if he could qualify) and wake speaks for himself as he approaches 200 wins. bullpen guys go down, no beef just call up triple A. your lights out lefty specialist goes down or underperforms, no beef.. just cut him, demote him or call up the next guy in line.
with position guys, we all were nervous with the catcher position, now both guys are getting the job done while taking a heavy load off each other by catching regularly with predictability. sat goes down and we bring up a guy (exposito) who has one of the best throwing arms in all of baseball, throwing guys out at around 40%. not a great hitter but again can carry the water in a pinch. we bench jd drew and cameron gets a big hit and will be much better than his stats. same with mcdonald if he can play.
shortstop/infield may be an even better example. many wanted scutaro or jed to be traded. scute is now raking as lowrie struggles a bit. pedy is out, no problem, lowrie and marco have been there and done that before. even the other guy they brought up a few weeks back when scute went down has been raking and looks mlb-ready. no issues with infield depth. looking at the minors we are well-stocked at just about every position. we have 3 top level shortstop/infield types, in the outfield we have about 4 guys we could bring up and count on in a pinch. roddick got the job done the brief time he was up and has enough experience now where he can have calm expectations when they call him up.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/10/2011 4:53 PM EDT
- moonslav59
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We've needed and used 20 pitchers and likely will need and use more.
I think Theo has done very well building depth, but does not get enough credit for the "little moves".
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/10/2011 5:01 PM EDT
- Bill-806
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AS DAD WOULD SAY............... "SON, YOU BET YOUR LIFE, HE DOES" !!!!
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/10/2011 5:26 PM EDT
- attic-dan
- Posts: 1001
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Having John Henrys' wallet doesn't hurt it enables him to keep slinging it against the wall until something sticks
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 1:39 AM EDT
In Response to
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?:
Having John Henrys' wallet doesn't hurt it enables him to keep slinging it against the wall until something sticks
Posted by attic-dan
dont bring up the money thing. i think guys like aceves were once yanks and they certainly could have signed him. aceves would have taken a chance to start with the orioles over the red sox. yanks have a far bgger payroll, how come they dont have the same level of depth? do you see the guys they will throw out there if a-rod , jeter or tex went down? total tomato cans. or if mariano went down? payroll helps but its much more than that. what happened in 2009 and other years when the depth wasnt there? point is blame the man when he goofs but lets give him his props when he gets it right as well
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 8:51 AM EDT
- Hfxsoxnut
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Sure having a huge payroll is a big help. But the Aceves pickup had nothing to do with money. That was just a sharp, opportunistic move by Theo, one he definitely should be praised for.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:00 AM EDT
- REBEL
- Posts: 740
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MILLER WILL BE THE NEXT GREAT THEO SUCCESS STORY IN A FEW WEEKS!
I DON'T VIEW CAMERON AS AN ASSET! THE GUY IS JUST PLAIN STALE! SHOULD BE TRADED!
YES, THE OVERALL DEPTH IS VERY IMPRESSIVE! I WOULD GO AFTER KERRY WOOD SO THE YANKS DON'T GET HIM, AND HE COULD BE A BIG HELP!
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 9:27 AM EDT
- jimdavis
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In Response to
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?:
MILLER WILL BE THE NEXT GREAT THEO SUCCESS STORY IN A FEW WEEKS! I DON'T VIEW CAMERON AS AN ASSET! THE GUY IS JUST PLAIN STALE! SHOULD BE TRADED! YES, THE OVERALL DEPTH IS VERY IMPRESSIVE! I WOULD GO AFTER KERRY WOOD SO THE YANKS DON'T GET HIM, AND HE COULD BE A BIG HELP!
Posted by REBEL
A. Stop screaming at us. Only Bill 806 can do that.
B. You think Cameron is horrible so why would someone trade for him.
C. Are you really that concerned about whether the Yanks get Keey Wood? Let them have the guy. he was the man for the Indians a couple of years back and Mike Lowell took him deep for one of many blown save.
I stack the Sox up with anyone in the league and do not care who the Yanks get. When Arod first came to NY, I said to just lace em up and go see who is better. I'll certainly say it again if the Yanks land Wood. I would have said it if they got Cliff Lee, too.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 10:19 AM EDT
Kerry who?
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 11:07 AM EDT
The Yankees had Kerry Wood last year. He did very well as a setup man, and they might try to get him back, that's possible. However, he left to become a setup man in Chicago, his preferred place of employment. Marmol has not been lights out this year and, in fact, looks like he's having arough going as of late. There is a remote chance Wood becomes closer, but not likely. So, if the Cubs continue to stink, they might consider trading him.
However, does that concern you that much? Once Chamberlain went down for good and Soriano continues to inhabit the DL, the Yankees have to go out and get a high profile guy, right? If it isn't Wood, it will be someone else. It's inevitable, we just have to wait for who. It happens every year with the Yankees. They get someone in the middle of the year, Yankees fans over estimate his value while Red Sox fans freak out like they got Babe Ruth. In the end, the guy is, well, ok. Don't worry about it.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 11:21 AM EDT
In Response to
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?:
MILLER WILL BE THE NEXT GREAT THEO SUCCESS STORY IN A FEW WEEKS! I DON'T VIEW CAMERON AS AN ASSET! THE GUY IS JUST PLAIN STALE! SHOULD BE TRADED! YES, THE OVERALL DEPTH IS VERY IMPRESSIVE! I WOULD GO AFTER KERRY WOOD SO THE YANKS DON'T GET HIM, AND HE COULD BE A BIG HELP!
Posted by REBEL
who's miller?
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 12:43 PM EDT
- fizsh
- Posts: 1662
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I voted yes, but my vote means for the entire Front Office, not just Epstein.
As for Miller, that would be Andrew Miller. He was a #1 pick for the Tigers a few years back, then traded along with Cameron Maybin and host of others to Florida for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. He is 3-3 with an ERA around 2.50 with Pawtucket this year. And he is still only 26. He has been a bust as a major leaguer so far, especially for a first round pick, but he may have turned the corner for the Sox. From what I have read here, the Sox have until Wednesday to call him up or else he could opt out of his contract. He could decide to stay, though. I guess we will find out in a few days.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 12:48 PM EDT
- attic-dan
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To say money doesn't enter into the equation is just not true it enables you to build depth in the following ways...you can eat your mistakes like Cameron allows you to trade for other teams players like Gonzalez sign free agents so you can leave the kids on the farm longer and also pay marginal players a little extra so they can be sitting in Pawtucket if needed to fill in
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 12:59 PM EDT
- ZILLAGOD
- Posts: 10381
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First of all, of course Theo gets the credit....who else would?
By the same token he should get the blame when there is no depth (see start of 2010, outfield).
Second, how can a person not mention money? Without it, you can have no depth. You roll the dice with your farm system and hope you get lucky. With money, you can have backups that can be plugged in when needed.Ask the Oakland A's who they have to back up their players and it's all kids who may shine or fall flat.
Third, depth at key positions can dry up at any time. If Gonzalez gets hurt, you move Youk back to 1st and plug Lowrie at 3rd....but what happens if you lose Youk too? And although Scutaro or Lowrie could fill in for Pedroia, is either going to play as well both offense and defense?
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 1:14 PM EDT
- carnie
- Posts: 10917
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Yes, having a big budget helps. But money isn't the answer to every question. I'm still astounded that Theo had the foresight to sign David Ortiz to a $1.25M free agent contract before the 2003 season. Jon Heyman of sports illustrated ranks that as the best free agent signing ever.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/05/14/heyman.bestfreeagents/Also take a look at the homegrown players on the Sox roster:
Lester, Buchholz, Youk, Pedey, Ells, Lowrie, Bard, Papelbon. Theo is a very good GM and he hires good people to advise him. And I like your new signature Zilla. I personally have never understood why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 1:33 PM EDT
- ZILLAGOD
- Posts: 10381
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Of course money has something to do with it.
Pro sports is all about money.
The Bruins finally made it to the finals in NHL because of the salary cap. The cheap skate that owns the team operated under a salary cap mentality years before it became reality. The Red Sox finaaly won a World Series when they got rich owners, ditto the Patriots.
If you ain't willing to spend, you don't win. This is pro sports in the 2000's. Why does Jimmy Johnson win NASCAR every year? rich owner, big money sponser.
Why will the Sox contend this year? Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, David Ortiz , Josh Beckett added to the core of drafted players who are the backbone of the team. Without these acquistions from past and present this team is not in 1st place right now.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 1:36 PM EDT
- Joebreidey
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Money always helps, but Aceves and Albers were close enough to minimum wage that anyone could've signed them.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 1:50 PM EDT
- fizsh
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But Joe, if you were a player and had the opportunity to be a back-up on a team like the Sox/Yankees/Phillies or the Pirates/Astros/Royals, who would you prefer to play for? So, indirectly, the money still enters into it. Don't get me wrong, I still think the Sox have done a great job of building depth, especially when compared to other large market teams. And the Front Office deserves a lot of credit for that. But to say money has little or nothing to do with it is a little naive.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 2:31 PM EDT
- Joebreidey
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In Response to
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?:
But Joe, if you were a player and had the opportunity to be a back-up on a team like the Sox/Yankees/Phillies or the Pirates/Astros/Royals, who would you prefer to play for? So, indirectly, the money still enters into it. Don't get me wrong, I still think the Sox have done a great job of building depth, especially when compared to other large market teams. And the Front Office deserves a lot of credit for that. But to say money has little or nothing to do with it is a little naive.
Posted by fizsh
Can't deny that. And inasmuch as everyone refers to 'Theo', this is really a full effort from the entire FO. Building a good team, and adding another 4,000 seats that we added, and then selling it all out, and then creating the buzz that comes from playing for a team with money, and talent, in front of a soldout 37k or whatever it is, all works hand in hand.
And this goes for the NYY as well, but for all the talk about the financial advantages we have, we built a lot of it. The NYMs have a brand new stadium in the same city as the EE, but no one goes there. There are a lot of cities and metropolitan areas as big or bigger than Boston, but a lot of them don't sell out.
Good all-around effort.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 2:49 PM EDT
Pitching depth hasn't made a substantial impact on the performance of this team. The pitching staff performance has been good with the top 3 starters and poor with the rest. The pen has been good with the upper half of the pen, and poor with the lower half.
Pitching performance overall has, to date, been medicore, at best. The offense has been carried by AGon and Ortiz and has a good enough supporting cast hitting with RISP to lead the league in runs produced.
The team has been winning since the poor start, and is currently on it's second long winning streak. This thread is intellecutally dishonest, and would not have been started without the current winning streak.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 2:59 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?:
Pitching depth hasn't made a substantial impact on the performance of this team. The pitching staff performance has been good with the top 3 starters and poor with the rest. The pen has been good with the upper half of the pen, and poor with the lower half. Pitching performance overall has, to date, been medicore, at best. The offense has been carried by AGon and Ortiz and has a good enough supporting cast hitting with RISP to lead the league in runs produced. The team has been winning since the poor start, and is currently on it's second long winning streak. This thread is intellecutally dishonest, and would not have been started without the current winning streak.
Posted by betterredthandead
Oy vey!!!!
Can you enjoy anything about the Red Sox without having to rain on someone else's parade!?!?
Get over your "intellectually dishonest" self!
Try just being a RS fan for one day! :) Water's warm..... Jump on in :)
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 3:01 PM EDT
Ells is sure playing like an ALL STAR! You gotta love that out of a slacker :) ?!?
Right?!?! :)
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/11/2011 3:03 PM EDT
You know..... Ells sure gives us depth at that Leadoff Hitter spot..... At least until we can find a guy that is a "TRUE" leadoff hitter!!!
I guess he'll do for now? :)
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/12/2011 4:59 AM EDT
The purpose of depth is not to make an impact, but to plug the holes
If a hole is plugged, it's an impact. As for Kalish and Reddick et al and having farm depth, Theo's not the first GM to discover the need to pay farm to develop MLB call-up capable talent.
Re: DOES THEO GET CREDIT FOR OUR DEPTH?
posted at 6/12/2011 6:27 AM EDT
- southpaw777
- Posts: 8202
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If a hole is plugged...its plugged with someone good enough to handle the job for the meantime until the regular player is back...I wouldnt call anyone that filled in for the sox an impact....well....maybe Bill Hall.....
