Don't Blame Bobby V

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Don't Blame Bobby V

    You want the truth behind the collapse, please consider the following:
    1. The malcontents from September were there in Spring Training
    2.  He had to begin with a pitching coach who was not his choice, the 5+ E.R.A. says it all
    3.  The quit on the field is not him, it is all on the players
    4.  These guys are selfish.... how many went to the Pesky funeral?  HMMM. an inconvenience.
    5.  I believe the team colonoscopy, otherwise known as the trade to LA, was an admission that dumping Tito was not the best thing, it only ignored the cancer growing in the clubhouse
    6.  The bad contracts that were signed, were placed in Bobby V's lap
    7.  Unfortunately, Bobby V looks like a defeated man at this point
    8.  If they need to change the Manager, I don't blame Bobby V for anything other than being tired of this mess and it may be lack of managerial stamina that says it is time to go.
    9.  Injuries made it difficult to field a constant, predictable line-up.
    10. In my 46 years of rooting for this team, beginning last September, this was a very difficult team to like, ... I truly believe they are to a person  extremely self absorbed as for us fans, we don't count with them, nor did Johnny Pesky.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to LeftyGrove's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You want the truth behind the collapse, please consider the following:
    1. The malcontents from September were there in Spring Training
    2.  He had to begin with a pitching coach who was not his choice, the 5+ E.R.A. says it all
    3.  The quit on the field is not him, it is all on the players
    4.  These guys are selfish.... how many went to the Pesky funeral?  HMMM. an inconvenience.
    5.  I believe the team colonoscopy, otherwise known as the trade to LA, was an admission that dumping Tito was not the best thing, it only ignored the cancer growing in the clubhouse
    6.  The bad contracts that were signed, were placed in Bobby V's lap
    7.  Unfortunately, Bobby V looks like a defeated man at this point
    8.  If they need to change the Manager, I don't blame Bobby V for anything other than being tired of this mess and it may be lack of managerial stamina that says it is time to go.
    9.  Injuries made it difficult to field a constant, predictable line-up.
    10. In my 46 years of rooting for this team, beginning last September, this was a very difficult team to like, ... I truly believe they are to a person  extremely self absorbed as for us fans, we don't count with them, nor did Johnny Pesky.


    In all the years I have watched the Sox which started in the Teddy years, I can't blame some players not going to JP funeral. However, it did show a disrespect to the RS logo. Those who never knew JP really get a pass from me.
      When you see Aceves getting into it with Pedey, you know not all the cancer is gone.There is only a minimum chance that BV will returm. More blame should be on FO than Bobby.[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Valentines job is to get the players to play hard, and to play well, and to manage the teams emotions as well as their performance on the field.

    How do you think he did?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Yes, they gave him a bad car, but he also did a bad job driving it.  We need a new car and a new driver.
     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    To hope BV is back next year is to hope the team always plays 25 games under .500
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to LeftyGrove's comment:

    You want the truth behind the collapse, please consider the following:
    1. The malcontents from September were there in Spring Training
    2.  He had to begin with a pitching coach who was not his choice, the 5+ E.R.A. says it all
    3.  The quit on the field is not him, it is all on the players
    4.  These guys are selfish.... how many went to the Pesky funeral?  HMMM. an inconvenience.
    5.  I believe the team colonoscopy, otherwise known as the trade to LA, was an admission that dumping Tito was not the best thing, it only ignored the cancer growing in the clubhouse
    6.  The bad contracts that were signed, were placed in Bobby V's lap
    7.  Unfortunately, Bobby V looks like a defeated man at this point
    8.  If they need to change the Manager, I don't blame Bobby V for anything other than being tired of this mess and it may be lack of managerial stamina that says it is time to go.
    9.  Injuries made it difficult to field a constant, predictable line-up.
    10. In my 46 years of rooting for this team, beginning last September, this was a very difficult team to like, ... I truly believe they are to a person  extremely self absorbed as for us fans, we don't count with them, nor did Johnny Pesky.



    well written and well said. I agree.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to mryazz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to LeftyGrove's comment:

    You want the truth behind the collapse, please consider the following:
    1. The malcontents from September were there in Spring Training
    2.  He had to begin with a pitching coach who was not his choice, the 5+ E.R.A. says it all
    3.  The quit on the field is not him, it is all on the players
    4.  These guys are selfish.... how many went to the Pesky funeral?  HMMM. an inconvenience.
    5.  I believe the team colonoscopy, otherwise known as the trade to LA, was an admission that dumping Tito was not the best thing, it only ignored the cancer growing in the clubhouse
    6.  The bad contracts that were signed, were placed in Bobby V's lap
    7.  Unfortunately, Bobby V looks like a defeated man at this point
    8.  If they need to change the Manager, I don't blame Bobby V for anything other than being tired of this mess and it may be lack of managerial stamina that says it is time to go.
    9.  Injuries made it difficult to field a constant, predictable line-up.
    10. In my 46 years of rooting for this team, beginning last September, this was a very difficult team to like, ... I truly believe they are to a person  extremely self absorbed as for us fans, we don't count with them, nor did Johnny Pesky.




    i agree with you except for the dumping 'cona part. 'cona had to go. his nurse maiding the team
    caused a lot of the problems bobby v had to face. 'cona was never a manager, he just wanted to be the players' best friend. glad he's gone.
    i hope bobby is back next year, but i seriously doubt it.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    I agree too and you are right about Francona. This spoiled entitlement attitude started with him being the manager of the team and allowing too much to go on because he was not a leader...he was their buddy.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    To me your list is as complete as is needed to explain this mess...... But I would add one more: Where has ownership been all these years?  There is a reason beyond just money spent on buying what ever is needed,  that the Yankess win every year.........  Winning is expected, and that is made clear from the top.
       As long as foolish Red Sox fans think they are supporting our team by going to the ball park nothing will change.  The only way to get the attention of these owners is in the wallet.
       A half empty ball park will get positive changes moving very quickly. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Yes, they gave him a bad car, but he also did a bad job driving it.  We need a new car and a new driver.



    How about a new GM as well Bob?  You and your friends on that other ridiculous board you post on seem to think this guy is the best thing since sliced bread when in fact the guy is risk averse and has trouble making a decent decision.  Aside from his signing of Cody Ross, his tenure has been on big  cluster@@ck.  I have come to the sad decision that Valentine has to go too.  His big mouth and his constant shifting of his batting order on a day to day basis has completely ripped open the fabric of the team, but they didn't help him when he needed it.  They did nothing to shore up the pitching last winter and kept the cancers on the team, moving none of the troublemakers.  Now we hear Prune Face wants to give Bill James and his computer sabermetrics nonsense an enlarged role.  This is the cr@p that has helped put us in the outhouse and that is what has to go.  Look at Baltimore.  Didn't their GM used to be ours?  He doesn't rely on the computer and that team has become what we used to be---a consistent contender  They may even win the division while we are mired not only in the outhouse, but below it, right in the middle of a pile of p@o
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    I dont blame  BV .
    Entitlement  privlege  arrogance .

    jealous of the mega money for phony superstars like crAWFUL  gonzalez  {now htting .211} and beckHIT 
    all made the combustibles  and BV  lit it up

    cherington added next to nothing to this team.. and gave away talent  reddick  lawrie   Yuke..got nothing for the inepstein fiasco

    I do give MUCH credit to BC in the 3 bummers trade

    The entire RS organization is AWOL
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    The fish rots from the head down.  So where is the head?  
     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    The fish rots from the head down.  So where is the head?  



    The head is Henry. It would be best if he sold the team to someone who cares. Further down, Lucchino is a controlling incompetent administrator who forced his manager to accept conditions he didn't want. Then there's Cherries. He hasn't had a chance to build a team, but he was trained by the idiot GM who put the team in this mess in the first place. Of course the main culprit in this year's disaster is the players, but I am not sure we can really blame them-any more than we can blame a leopard for his spots. They stink; stinky players with little talent tend to perform like stinky players. There is plenty of blame to go around, and Valentine is not immune to criticism. Some of his comments to the press and his in-game tactics were just plain stupid. But firing him without flushing the rest of the toilet bowl would be an exercise in futility.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    You and your friends on that other ridiculous board you post on seem to think this guy is the best thing since sliced bread when in fact the guy is risk averse and has trouble making a decent decision

    Nobody ever said that Fred.

    But if you think they did, just copy and paste it.

    I think what you meant to say was that most people realize it is a little early to judge him  And that most, but not all, were pleased with the big trade.

    Nor do I see any evidence of him being risk-averse or a risk-taker.  Seeing how the trade was one of the biggest in history, my guess is that he is on the risk-taking side of the equation.  How do you define being risk averse in these circumstances?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Granite2000. Show Granite2000's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    I believe that 'Joe Briedy' is in fact Dr. Charles Steiberg, chief dentist of the Boston Red Sox, LLC.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Granite2000 comment:

    I believe that 'Joe Briedy' is in fact Dr. Charles Steiberg, chief dentist of the Boston Red Sox, LLC.



    I don't really want to be a dentist.  Can I be someone more glamorous?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Granite2000. Show Granite2000's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Oops, struck a nerve there!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Granite2000s comment:

    Oops, struck a nerve there!



    Nothing wrong with being a dentist.  I'm sure the money is good and you get great seats.  I'm just not sure I want to stick my fingers in someone else's mouth.  With guys like Padilla and Aceves around, that could be risky.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Granite2000s comment:

    Oops, struck a nerve there!



    Nothing wrong with being a dentist.  I'm sure the money is good and you get great seats.  I'm just not sure I want to stick my fingers in someone else's mouth.  With guys like Padilla and Aceves around, that could be risky.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Now remember, Jim Lonborg is a dentist. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You and your friends on that other ridiculous board you post on seem to think this guy is the best thing since sliced bread when in fact the guy is risk averse and has trouble making a decent decision

    Nobody ever said that Fred.

    But if you think they did, just copy and paste it.

    I think what you meant to say was that most people realize it is a little early to judge him  And that most, but not all, were pleased with the big trade.

    Nor do I see any evidence of him being risk-averse or a risk-taker.  Seeing how the trade was one of the biggest in history, my guess is that he is on the risk-taking side of the equation.  How do you define being risk averse in these circumstances?

    [/QUOTE]


    Be serious for a moment Joe.  Most of us know that it was Lucchino acting on Prune Face's behalf that engineered  the ok for that trade.  Cherington just carried out orders, one of the few talents he has.  Problem there is that the orders he carries out are dispensed by those who have as little baseball acumen as he does.  The trade is being lauded for us getting rid of some bloaded contracts---well and good.  But why did we trade two of our best prospets for Adrian Gonzales when we were to keep him for less than two years?  What we really did was trade an emerging Anthony Rizzo and that good young pitcher and got the worthless and useless James Loneybaloney  in exchange.  Now we have to wonder if this bum is going to be fastened to our team for the next few years.  This guy is worthless---and I wonder if we even have a good young power hitting first baseman in our system.  You can take it to the bank.  Even if we upgrade our pitching, and that is a must,  to have Loneybaloney at first and the worthless Iglesias at short, is to condemn ourselves to failure for 2013....a certainty.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    But why did we trade two of our best prospets for Adrian Gonzales when we were to keep him for less than two years?  What we really did was trade an emerging Anthony Rizzo and that good young pitcher and got the worthless and useless James Loneybaloney  in exchange. 

    With posts like this, it seems evident that you just want to ignore the full range of facts, and only focus on those facts that help your side.

    1-I know that you don't care for the money side of roster, but we basically trade Rizzo, Kelly, and Fuentes to obtain a $22M player for $6M.  you can't ignore the $16M savings for a team in the tax position.  You also fail to note that we saved a draft pick by trading for him rather than sign him as a FA.  You also fail to note that the salaries have risen drastically.  Had we waited until this year, we'd have had to pay > $200M.  That in turn would've gutted his trade value.

    2-Stating that he was traded for Loney is a strawman argument.  He was traded for several decent/good prospects.  Why is it that you refer to the guys we gave up as 'emerging' and 'good', but you completely ignore the equally good prospect we received in return?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    But why did we trade two of our best prospets for Adrian Gonzales when we were to keep him for less than two years?  What we really did was trade an emerging Anthony Rizzo and that good young pitcher and got the worthless and useless James Loneybaloney  in exchange. 

    With posts like this, it seems evident that you just want to ignore the full range of facts, and only focus on those facts that help your side.

    1-I know that you don't care for the money side of roster, but we basically trade Rizzo, Kelly, and Fuentes to obtain a $22M player for $6M.  you can't ignore the $16M savings for a team in the tax position.  You also fail to note that we saved a draft pick by trading for him rather than sign him as a FA.  You also fail to note that the salaries have risen drastically.  Had we waited until this year, we'd have had to pay > $200M.  That in turn would've gutted his trade value.

    2-Stating that he was traded for Loney is a strawman argument.  He was traded for several decent/good prospects.  Why is it that you refer to the guys we gave up as 'emerging' and 'good', but you completely ignore the equally good prospect we received in return?



    What good prospects?  Loneybaloney?  That's ridiculous; he stinks.  OK, he is not a prospect but an albatross we have to put with hopefully only for the rest of the season, though with Cherington running things you never know.  DeJesus?  Are you kidding?  The Dodgers tried to trade that bum for two seasons.  He never could make the Dodgers and he is a utility man at best, a career minor leaguer at worst.  Remember, I live in the LA area and have seen these two cruds the past few years.  OK DeLaRosa?  Great arm, questionable smarts.  T hrows a flaming fast ball but he is not yet a pitcher, and he was not the best we could have gotten.  Zack Lee is the Dodgers' best pitching prospect and we didn't get him.  Webster?  Maybe.  We'll see if he develops.  As it is our farm boys have had this miserable reputation for regression, or do you fail to remember Britton and Pimentel?  Sands?  A good young power hitter, but the way we keep sending prospects down "for more seasoning" I wonder if he will crater the way Lavarnway and Kalish did when they were not kept on the team they deserved to be on and weere sent down to the minors, Kalish in 2011 and Lavarnway in 2012.

     No, unlike you I am not waxing poetic over what we got until I see what they can do.  All I can see right now is that we subsitutued Gonzales for Loneybaloney and that is a miserable exchange.



     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In
    Now remember, Jim Lonborg is a dentist. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Lonborg not only is a reknown dentist, but one of the worst ski(ers) in MLB history.

     

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