Don't Blame Bobby V

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Bobby V is terrible.  Let him coach in KC where they need a character to draw interest in the team.

    The Sox would be bad with the best coach in baseball, but BV is still bad. 

    He was hired to be a punching bag.  They lacked pitching last September and they started the season with a rotation that was worse.  they hired a throw away coach who was looking for a little extra retirement money.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    I can tell you a Jim Leyland NEVER would have lost this clubhouse. He would have stopped the nonsense in ST instead of building on the nonsense to a high-pitch Three Stooges short under BV.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I can tell you a Jim Leyland NEVER would have lost this clubhouse. He would have stopped the nonsense in ST instead of building on the nonsense to a high-pitch Three Stooges short under BV.



    First of all, a Jim Leyland would never have taken the job.  This isn't an issue of the Manager losing the clubhouse.  That's a bunch of BS put out by the front office to cover that fact that they put out a substandard product.

    Secondly, Leyland still wouldn't have a winning record BECAUSE THE ROTATION IS TERRIBLE.  They've had a bad rotation since last August and it didn't get any better in the off season.

    Blame for this season lies squarely on the shoulders of the people who put the team together.

    That being said - Bobby V is a bozo whose best coaching days are way behind him.  And he was never a never a very good manager.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I can tell you a Jim Leyland NEVER would have lost this clubhouse. He would have stopped the nonsense in ST instead of building on the nonsense to a high-pitch Three Stooges short under BV.



    First of all, a Jim Leyland would never have taken the job.  This isn't an issue of the Manager losing the clubhouse.  That's a bunch of BS put out by the front office to cover that fact that they put out a substandard product.

    Secondly, Leyland still wouldn't have a winning record BECAUSE THE ROTATION IS TERRIBLE.  They've had a bad rotation since last August and it didn't get any better in the off season.

    Blame for this season lies squarely on the shoulders of the people who put the team together.

    That being said - Bobby V is a bozo whose best coaching days are way behind him.  And he was never a never a very good manager.

    Again, don't blame Bobby V. The product put out there was subpar.

    [/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    The Sox were 83-53 (.610) after 136 games last season and were a half-game in first place. 

    That's from PA.  We are a staggering 21 games worse at this point than we were last year.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Revisionist history on last year, the team won 90 games, collapse or no collapse.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Never seen so many apologists for a terrible manager. It's like none of BV's decisions, quotes, actions mean a thing. It's the EvilDoer Players v. The Poor Misunderstood Manager, oh and I didn't get to pick my own staff (yes he did, 3 coaches), and boo-hoo, the "noise" here it's too tough for free agents and boo-hoo, Aceves doesn't respect me, but I'll show him, first I'll suspend him, then I will make him fly on his own to West Coast, and then I will leave him high and dry as I overpitch him on 3 straight days to prove that I am in control of the firey Latin reliever.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    what is a great manager worth wins wise?
    4-5 wins?
    what does a terrible manager cost you wins wise?
    4-5 wins?
    if we consider bobby v as the worst manager ever and replaced him with casey stengel/ joe mccarthy the sox would still be in 4th place in the division.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    Nobody can really answer this though.  Because it's not just about in-game managerial moves.  It's about the effect the manager has on attitude.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to slasher9s comment:

    what is a great manager worth wins wise?
    4-5 wins?
    what does a terrible manager cost you wins wise?
    4-5 wins?
    if we consider bobby v as the worst manager ever and replaced him with casey stengel/ joe mccarthy the sox would still be in 4th place in the division.



    I think decision-wise, maybe it might be 4 games.  But you can also provide an environment conducive or non-conducive to winning.  Having players approached by the press every day, asking about BV latest utterances, is not conducive to focusing on BB.

    The difference between the worst possible bunting call, say Aviles bunting v Blackburn, maybe costs us about .3 runs.  

    OTOH, stabbing Youkilis in the back after we won 3 straight against TB, was followed by a 5-game losing streak.  There is no telling what type of damage these distractions caused.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    The Sox were 83-53 (.610) after 136 games last season and were a half-game in first place. 

    That's from PA.  We are a staggering 21 games worse at this point than we were last year.



    Yup. Thats what bad starting pitching will do for you. It went straight downhill beginning last Sept and has not recovered.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9s comment:

    what is a great manager worth wins wise?
    4-5 wins?
    what does a terrible manager cost you wins wise?
    4-5 wins?
    if we consider bobby v as the worst manager ever and replaced him with casey stengel/ joe mccarthy the sox would still be in 4th place in the division.



    I think decision-wise, maybe it might be 4 games.  But you can also provide an environment conducive or non-conducive to winning.  Having players approached by the press every day, asking about BV latest utterances, is not conducive to focusing on BB.

    The difference between the worst possible bunting call, say Aviles bunting v Blackburn, maybe costs us about .3 runs.  

    OTOH, stabbing Youkilis in the back after we won 3 straight against TB, was followed by a 5-game losing streak.  There is no telling what type of damage these distractions caused.

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Nobody forces the press to ask questions about controversies that it has inflamed, and nobody forces the players to answer. Do you pay any attention to what Ortiz says to the press? Or any of the other players, for that matter? Try some of Pedey's more recent statements. I haven't heard him say anything like the "Japan" crack.
    But I will say that you have a knack for diction that succinctly sums up a complicated situation:
    "stabs in the back."  That's another of your fortes, going back to day one: "indefensible."  
    I won't argue tactics with you, again and again and again. So don't say "how about the bunt."
    Let it be said that you and I disagree about BV's moves. He's made some mistakes. What manager hasn't? On balance I think BV has done a good job with tactics and a superb job with the pen, all things considered. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    And the pen has pitched better, so naturally he did better with the pen. But I'm a guy who allows for the manager to actually GET TO TAKE CREDIT for his good things. BV has his pen, Tito has 2 WS titles and mostly 90-95 win seasons. All things on the table, I prefer the far less capable manager, well according to everyone who wanted Tito's head on a stick.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And the pen has pitched better, so naturally he did better with the pen. But I'm a guy who allows for the manager to actually GET TO TAKE CREDIT for his good things. BV has his pen, Tito has 2 WS titles and mostly 90-95 win seasons. All things on the table, I prefer the far less capable manager, well according to everyone who wanted Tito's head on a stick.
    As others have correctly posted, Buddy Tito was rolled over by his players. They continued to choke Bobby V , it is about the players and the owners who refused to clean them out sooner!!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    His interview was a disgrace; yt's not about his managerial ability, it's about his thin skin. I think he needs anger management as much as a few of his players.

    Bobby's response to the question should have been, "that's both a stupid and insulting question; let's move on."

    I live in Ft Myers, and get the Rays games on TV. Maddon gets those questions from time to time just as any manger might. And you can see he gets mad; what he does is, civially and shortly, is let the questioner know what he thinks of the question, and lets that reveal what he thinks of them. Obviously, he doesn't get many!

    I think the Red Sox had a shot at him last year, and blew it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to LeftyGrove's comment:

    You want the truth behind the collapse, please consider the following:
    1. The malcontents from September were there in Spring Training
    2.  He had to begin with a pitching coach who was not his choice, the 5+ E.R.A. says it all
    3.  The quit on the field is not him, it is all on the players
    4.  These guys are selfish.... how many went to the Pesky funeral?  HMMM. an inconvenience.
    5.  I believe the team colonoscopy, otherwise known as the trade to LA, was an admission that dumping Tito was not the best thing, it only ignored the cancer growing in the clubhouse
    6.  The bad contracts that were signed, were placed in Bobby V's lap
    7.  Unfortunately, Bobby V looks like a defeated man at this point
    8.  If they need to change the Manager, I don't blame Bobby V for anything other than being tired of this mess and it may be lack of managerial stamina that says it is time to go.
    9.  Injuries made it difficult to field a constant, predictable line-up.
    10. In my 46 years of rooting for this team, beginning last September, this was a very difficult team to like, ... I truly believe they are to a person  extremely self absorbed as for us fans, we don't count with them, nor did Johnny Pesky.




    That could have been said in 2 words: injuries and pitching.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    His interview was a disgrace; yt's not about his managerial ability, it's about his thin skin. I think he needs anger management as much as a few of his players.

    Bobby's response to the question should have been, "that's both a stupid and insulting question; let's move on."

    I live in Ft Myers, and get the Rays games on TV. Maddon gets those questions from time to time just as any manger might. And you can see he gets mad; what he does is, civially and shortly, is let the questioner know what he thinks of the question, and lets that reveal what he thinks of them. Obviously, he doesn't get many!

    I think the Red Sox had a shot at him last year, and blew it.



    I remember about the only time I saw Torre get made was when someone questioned him about whether Jeter had lost focus.  His response was something along the lines of 'Jeter?  Are you serious?  Losing his focus?'  He did that for about a minute, started walking away, then returned to ask the report the same questions again.  'Jeter?  Were you really serious about that?'.

    I don't remember the question being raised again.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Don't Blame Bobby V

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    The Sox were 83-53 (.610) after 136 games last season and were a half-game in first place. 

    That's from PA.  We are a staggering 21 games worse at this point than we were last year.


    After 136 games. All the sadder later.
     
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