Don't blame the ump

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from xdrive. Show xdrive's posts

    Don't blame the ump

    It makes us sound whiny....this is on Daniel nava period.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    My only issue with the Ump, is he had plenty of time to get into proper position. Wasn't a bang-bang play.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    Sorry ... Nava misread Drew's ball, but he scored  on the next  play. I'm blaming the ump.

     

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from xdrive. Show xdrive's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    Bad calls happen in baseballs all the time, mental mistakes like Nava's are  unacceptable. Anyone can boot a ball or make a bad throw but having your head up your a z z like Nava did is what separates winners from losers.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    Bad calls happen in baseballs all the time, mental mistakes like Nava's are  unacceptable. Anyone can boot a ball or make a bad throw but having your head up your a z z like Nava did is what separates winners from losers.




     

    Except the bad call was the result of a mental mistake by the ump; failure to get into proper position.  Taking 2 steps to his left would have been all that was required.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    It makes us sound whiny....this is on Daniel nava period.


    I guess you weren't watching the same game that I was. Nava was clearly safe at the plate. the blueman clearly blew the call. he was out of position and didn't see nava's leg touch home before the catcher tagged him. you,me or anyone else that has played this game under the exact same curcumstances would have been just as livid as nava was. not to mention farrell who just about exploded. whiny? I think not. the bottom line is that we need total instant replay in all cases on very close plays. if they can review balls hitting the foul line or home runs that are questionable, why not a bang,bang play at the plate?

    nuff said.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    Bad calls happen in baseballs all the time, mental mistakes like Nava's are  unacceptable. Anyone can boot a ball or make a bad throw but having your head up your a z z like Nava did is what separates winners from losers.




    Your right, Nava messed up. But the fact that he did eventually score and due to an umpire not doing his job properly it was still 2-1 instead of 2-2.

    If the Umpire admitted he was wrong, so can we.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    Nope.  I don't agree.  The rules of the game are the most important part.  There are only four people charged with enforcing those rules and they have an obligation to do the best they can.  In this case the umpire at the plate failed to do that by not getting into a position where he could see the play.

    We can couldda - wouldda - shoudda all day about Nava, Farrell, and Iggy but at the end of the day Daniel Nava tagged home plate before Molina tagged him with the ball.  According to the rules that run should have counted but due to the ineptitude of the umpire it didn't.

    If that sounds whiney, ok, but the way this race is shaping up that may be the blown call of the year when the last game is played and given the structure of the WC's in the playoffs that call could have a HUGE bearing on the playoffs. 

    The players and fans deserve better than that.

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to S5's comment:

    Nope.  I don't agree.  The rules of the game are the most important part.  There are only four people charged with enforcing those rules and they have an obligation to do the best they can.  In this case the umpire at the plate failed to do that by not getting into a position where he could see the play.

    We can couldda - wouldda - shoudda all day about Nava, Farrell, and Iggy but at the end of the day Daniel Nava tagged home plate before Molina tagged him with the ball.  According to the rules that run should have counted but due to the ineptitude of the umpire it didn't.

    If that sounds whiney, ok, but the way this race is shaping up that may be the blown call of the year when the last game is played and given the structure of the WC's in the playoffs that call could have a HUGE bearing on the playoffs. 

    The players and fans deserve better than that.

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.


    +100

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    After having just watched the play for the first time, it's just ridiculous that Nava didn't score on that ball.  Even if Myers catches it, Nava coulda been all the way at 3rd and still gotten back to the bag at 2nd in time.  Very bad, and who knows what mighta happened at that point had he scored and now it's tied and a man on 2nd.  Diff situation then 2nd and 3rd, still needing the tying run.  It's just sad it happened since as John Henry said, it's a 2 game swing.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to Hammah29r2's comment:

    the bottom line is that we need total instant replay in all cases on very close plays. if they can review balls hitting the foul line or home runs that are questionable, why not a bang,bang play at the plate?

    nuff said.



    I agree and disagree with this comment...having instant replay for every close play would further slow down a game that is losing fans because of its slowness.

    There needs to be another alternative...and I would suggest one of the following:

    • 5th Umpire in the pressbox to review replay and advise the umpire on the field of a mis-call, only if it is clear cut and not questionable. Sometimes the replay will not provide a definitive answer and the call on the field should stand. But this takes place within a minute of the play occurring.
    • Allow each manager to request a replay once a game by throwing a red flag. This would allow the umpires on the field to take the time to review the replay themselves and get to the right decision...but just once a game.

    All I know is that the solution should not slow games down any more than there already are...MLB doesn't need Sox/Yankees games to push 5 hours long because of replays.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    It makes us sound whiny....this is on Daniel nava period.




    This call was on the umpire..... This morning the umpire said he missed the call and Nava was safe. Now does that make us sound any different?.....PERIOD !!!!!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to Hammah29r2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    the bottom line is that we need total instant replay in all cases on very close plays. if they can review balls hitting the foul line or home runs that are questionable, why not a bang,bang play at the plate?

    nuff said.

     



    I agree and disagree with this comment...having instant replay for every close play would further slow down a game that is losing fans because of its slowness.

     

    There needs to be another alternative...and I would suggest one of the following:

    • 5th Umpire in the pressbox to review replay and advise the umpire on the field of a mis-call, only if it is clear cut and not questionable. Sometimes the replay will not provide a definitive answer and the call on the field should stand. But this takes place within a minute of the play occurring.
    • Allow each manager to request a replay once a game by throwing a red flag. This would allow the umpires on the field to take the time to review the replay themselves and get to the right decision...but just once a game.

    All I know is that the solution should not slow games down any more than there already are...MLB doesn't need Sox/Yankees games to push 5 hours long because of replays.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think all HR, fair/foul and plays at the plate should be available to review. No red flags like football. Ive also been suggesting a 5th umpire replay idea, although set up in a central location like NHL (which I prefer). One ump get on the horn and its done. put a phone in the home dugout. Quick and simple.

    The same bottom line though. Get the important, game changing calls right.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to Hammah29r2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    the bottom line is that we need total instant replay in all cases on very close plays. if they can review balls hitting the foul line or home runs that are questionable, why not a bang,bang play at the plate?

    nuff said.

     



    I agree and disagree with this comment...having instant replay for every close play would further slow down a game that is losing fans because of its slowness.

     

    There needs to be another alternative...and I would suggest one of the following:

    • 5th Umpire in the pressbox to review replay and advise the umpire on the field of a mis-call, only if it is clear cut and not questionable. Sometimes the replay will not provide a definitive answer and the call on the field should stand. But this takes place within a minute of the play occurring.
    • Allow each manager to request a replay once a game by throwing a red flag. This would allow the umpires on the field to take the time to review the replay themselves and get to the right decision...but just once a game.

    All I know is that the solution should not slow games down any more than there already are...MLB doesn't need Sox/Yankees games to push 5 hours long because of replays.

    [/QUOTE]


    Whatever time you lose during replays could be made up by insisting pitchers pitch in timely matter, as stated in the rule book.

    Batters can also be required to stay in the batters box.

    The extended strolls around homeplate are unnecessary.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    It makes us sound whiny....this is on Daniel nava period.




    We are whiny,x  If we cant whine about this....wellSealedTongue Out

    Next up in replay has to be plays at the plate.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Hammah29r2's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    the bottom line is that we need total instant replay in all cases on very close plays. if they can review balls hitting the foul line or home runs that are questionable, why not a bang,bang play at the plate?

    nuff said.

     

     



    I agree and disagree with this comment...having instant replay for every close play would further slow down a game that is losing fans because of its slowness.

     

     

    There needs to be another alternative...and I would suggest one of the following:

    • 5th Umpire in the pressbox to review replay and advise the umpire on the field of a mis-call, only if it is clear cut and not questionable. Sometimes the replay will not provide a definitive answer and the call on the field should stand. But this takes place within a minute of the play occurring.
    • Allow each manager to request a replay once a game by throwing a red flag. This would allow the umpires on the field to take the time to review the replay themselves and get to the right decision...but just once a game.

    All I know is that the solution should not slow games down any more than there already are...MLB doesn't need Sox/Yankees games to push 5 hours long because of replays.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think all HR, fair/foul and plays at the plate should be available to review. No red flags like football. Ive also been suggesting a 5th umpire replay idea, although set up in a central location like NHL (which I prefer). One ump get on the horn and its done. put a phone in the home dugout. Quick and simple.

     

    The same bottom line though. Get the important, game changing calls right.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    They've had replay at the Little League World Series for a few years now.  On a close call, the manager can ask the ump for a replay, there's a 7th ump (they use 6 at the Series) in the official scorers area looking at the TV replay, the ump comes over, gets the ruling and the game moves on.  Usually takes about a minute.

     

    No reason MLB can't instiute something similar, other the Umpires Union ego.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    Bad calls happen in baseballs all the time, mental mistakes like Nava's are  unacceptable. Anyone can boot a ball or make a bad throw but having your head up your a z z like Nava did is what separates winners from losers.



    The ump apologized. The ump should have got that right.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to xdrive's comment:

    Bad calls happen in baseballs all the time, mental mistakes like Nava's are  unacceptable. Anyone can boot a ball or make a bad throw but having your head up your a z z like Nava did is what separates winners from losers.



    Ok but even with Nava not scoring on that double, he was SAFE at home so I am blaming the ump.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Hammah29r2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    thanks southpaw. that was my point. let an ump up in the pressbox review the play and relay the call down to the field. problem solved.............can you see john farrell coming out of the duggout and tossing a stuffed redsock towards homeplate? rotlmmfao.

     

    the bottom line is that we need total instant replay in all cases on very close plays. if they can review balls hitting the foul line or home runs that are questionable, why not a bang,bang play at the plate?

    nuff said.

     

     



    I agree and disagree with this comment...having instant replay for every close play would further slow down a game that is losing fans because of its slowness.

     

     

    There needs to be another alternative...and I would suggest one of the following:

    • 5th Umpire in the pressbox to review replay and advise the umpire on the field of a mis-call, only if it is clear cut and not questionable. Sometimes the replay will not provide a definitive answer and the call on the field should stand. But this takes place within a minute of the play occurring.
    • Allow each manager to request a replay once a game by throwing a red flag. This would allow the umpires on the field to take the time to review the replay themselves and get to the right decision...but just once a game.

    All I know is that the solution should not slow games down any more than there already are...MLB doesn't need Sox/Yankees games to push 5 hours long because of replays.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think all HR, fair/foul and plays at the plate should be available to review. No red flags like football. Ive also been suggesting a 5th umpire replay idea, although set up in a central location like NHL (which I prefer). One ump get on the horn and its done. put a phone in the home dugout. Quick and simple.

     

    The same bottom line though. Get the important, game changing calls right.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    Nava should have scored on the double (pun intended).

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    The one thing that no one has mentioned is that the continuing theme this year is the amount of bad calls by the HP umpires this year that directly effected more than one game the Sox have lost as a result. They have two strike zones almost every night one for the opposition and one for the Sox, the one for the opposition is wide enough to drive a car thru and the tall enough to get two straight balls out of the strike zone called strikes. The one for the Sox pitchers shrinks as the game progresses, it starts out normal enough but by the 4th inning it's about the size of the tip of my thumb! We know they are helping the Rays, the poor me,pity me Rays who can't draw flys to their dicrepate artificial turf ball park! The fact is the residents of the Tampa Bay area aren't going to games because they have a plethora of things they can spend their family dollar on that don't cost near as much to attend, and no matter how many times Selig tells the Umps to help them out on close plays it isn't going to increase their home game attendance. They draw approximately 15 thousand fans a game. Add another 9k to games against the Sox and Yanks and you can pretty much average it out and come up with their seasonal attendance before they start the season. My brother in law always tells me the same thing when he sees me upset about a home team losing All games are fixed!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    1. In general, I agree with the notion that blaming officiating does sound whiney. That group of fans who always are complaining about the officiating, especially those with the line of thought that the officials are out to get "my team" make me sick. Having said that, it doesn't mean that on occasion, especially with a bad call as blatant as it was, that the umpire was to blame -- or at least partly to blame.

    2. Nava made a bonehead baserunning play. On a ball like that with the Soxdown one run, he has to score. So if he was to make an error in judgement, it should be where he's too far off second to be able to get back and tag and get to third if the catch is made but is like that so he can easily score if the ball gets in like it did.

    3. Just because, Nava made the bad running play, it doesn't excuse the bad call. And the bad call doesn't excuse the bad call. They're not mutually exclusive. Nava's bad baserunning was partly to blame and the bad call was partly to blame.

    4. The big problem with call wasn't so much that he got it wrong, but how he got it wrong. First, he was out of position that he wasn't in the spot to see it properly. He had time to get in the write spot but took a lazy approach. Second, he anticipated the call. The throw beat the runner in a way where it was possible to make the tag. So the umpire assumed that the tag would beat the foot to the plate and made the out call w/o seeing what really happened. Because of when the throw got there, he expected it to be an out so called it that way.

    My problems with umpires aren't the judgment calls. I not against some replay, but I want as little replay as possible. I can live with bad calls both safe/out or balls/strike. My only problems with officials are if/when they don't know the rules, don't get in the right position, and have rabbit ears or an ego where they escalate situations instead of diffusing bad situations.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Don't blame the ump

    In response to royf19's comment:

    1. In general, I agree with the notion that blaming officiating does sound whiney. That group of fans who always are complaining about the officiating, especially those with the line of thought that the officials are out to get "my team" make me sick. Having said that, it doesn't mean that on occasion, especially with a bad call as blatant as it was, that the umpire was to blame -- or at least partly to blame.

    2. Nava made a bonehead baserunning play. On a ball like that with the Soxdown one run, he has to score. So if he was to make an error in judgement, it should be where he's too far off second to be able to get back and tag and get to third if the catch is made but is like that so he can easily score if the ball gets in like it did.

    3. Just because, Nava made the bad running play, it doesn't excuse the bad call. And the bad call doesn't excuse the bad call. They're not mutually exclusive. Nava's bad baserunning was partly to blame and the bad call was partly to blame.

    4. The big problem with call wasn't so much that he got it wrong, but how he got it wrong. First, he was out of position that he wasn't in the spot to see it properly. He had time to get in the write spot but took a lazy approach. Second, he anticipated the call. The throw beat the runner in a way where it was possible to make the tag. So the umpire assumed that the tag would beat the foot to the plate and made the out call w/o seeing what really happened. Because of when the throw got there, he expected it to be an out so called it that way.

    My problems with umpires aren't the judgment calls. I not against some replay, but I want as little replay as possible. I can live with bad calls both safe/out or balls/strike. My only problems with officials are if/when they don't know the rules, don't get in the right position, and have rabbit ears or an ego where they escalate situations instead of diffusing bad situations.

     



    I wish I'd said that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    Smile

     
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