Doubront and Bard

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Doubront and Bard

    He struck out 9 of the 18 batters he retired. He gave up 4 hits in 6 innings. One big one.  He was consistently around the plate. He went with Salty on every pitch, I think. Another well-called game. 
    This young man is looking more and more like a pitcher. He goes right to work. His delivery and release point are well coordinated. He follows through. His wrist closes the deal out in front. Very nice.
    The Sox look to have found a starter.

    Bard is another story. His mechanics have been generally messy. He appears to lose concentration. He throws far too many pitches. A bad sign is that he often goes from a 1 and 2 count to a 3 and 2 count. Really good pitchers quite often close the sale on 1 and 2. The Sox could use a win today -- really use a win -- against the team in first place and to complete a good road trip. The team needs an effort from Bard. His spot in the rotation is far from assured. If the club were four or five games in first place, maybe it could afford to keep sending Bard out there and trying to nurse him along. But at near to the one-third point in the season with a lot of ground to make up, it cannot for long continue with an experiment for its possible long-term rewards. This club can still win this season, or at least make a scrap of it, but only if the rotation is strong. Bard needs to start delivering, like today.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Excuse the repeats. The board said it's too soon to post again. But then it ran the post(s).
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Good comparison, fair.  Bard is no worse a problem than Buchholz, and both are in the rotation because they are what is available.  Cook isn't ready yet, and Matsuzaka is further away than Cook.  Two guys cited as potential starters are Aceves and Padilla, but they have had significant roles in the bullpen's success.  Waiting in Pawtucket are two possible replacements for the bullpen in Melancon and Mortensen. 

    I don't doubt for a moment Ben C is looking for a deal, but deals for starters are fraught with peril and very likely expense. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Like what I've seen from Doubront so far, another solid LH starter a big plus for RS. As for Bard, and I was all for move to rotation, not sure its right move after the 1st 40 games. has not been overpowering, throws a lot of pitches and usually gone by 6th inning. If he shows sign of being dominant starter you have to leave him there, but just haven't seen that yet, still might come. But at some point team might realize that Matsuzaka can give us those same 6ip 3-4 run type games and Bards power arm is better served in pen. Not sure how much longer we can expect Padilla to be that 8th inning guy he's been so far.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    In Response to Doubront and Bard:
    [QUOTE]He struck out 9 of the 18 batters he retired. He gave up 4 hits in 6 innings. One big one.  He was consistently around the plate. He went with Salty on every pitch, I think. Another well-called game.  This young man is looking more and more like a pitcher. He goes right to work. His delivery and release point are well coordinated. He follows through. His wrist closes the deal out in front. Very nice. The Sox look to have found a starter. Bard is another story. His mechanics have been generally messy. He appears to lose concentration. He throws far too many pitches. A bad sign is that he often goes from a 1 and 2 count to a 3 and 2 count. Really good pitchers quite often close the sale on 1 and 2. The Sox could use a win today -- really use a win -- against the team in first place and to complete a good road trip. The team needs an effort from Bard. His spot in the rotation is far from assured. If the club were four or five games in first place, maybe it could afford to keep sending Bard out there and trying to nurse him along. But at near to the one-third point in the season with a lot of ground to make up, it cannot for long continue with an experiment for its possible long-term rewards. This club can still win this season, or at least make a scrap of it, but only if the rotation is strong. Bard needs to start delivering, like today.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    The only problem with that analysis is that Doubront has had even more trouble than Bard with his pitch counts.  Bard has had two 7-inning starts and one 6.2-inning start.  Doubront has not had any starts longer than 6 innings.  Other than the high pitch counts Doubront is doing extremely well.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    this board does too much hand wringing over these two starters...they are very young, show great poise and promise, and im excited about their long term propects...let them smooth over the rough patches in due time....worry about Clay - he seems to be recessing
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Only thing Doubont needs to improve on is he is easy to run on and would like to see him pitch a little deeper into the game
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    In Response to Re: Doubront and Bard:
    [QUOTE]Only thing Doubont needs to improve on is he is easy to run on and would like to see him pitch a little deeper into the game
    Posted by fourrings[/QUOTE]

    Remember he is coming off of injury in the past.  Dont want him to overpitch every game.  Give him some time to figure out how to cut down his number of pitches per inning.  We should be happy to see him to pitched 6 innings in three out of his last four outings.  I would take him over Wakefield, Miller, Cook, Bucholtz, Bedard, Dice K, etc.

    Boston isnt going to make a deal to find #5 starting pitcher who is more likely to replace Bucholtz.  With all that injuries, too many on DL, 40 man roster is becoming more complicated with the substraction and addition, etc, I dont think Ben C have any choice to fix the team problem.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Boston isnt going to make a deal to find #5 starting pitcher ...

    I hope not, but trading 3-4 players for a very good #3 starter would solve many issues.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    In Response to Re: Doubront and Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Doubront and Bard : The only problem with that analysis is that Doubront has had even more trouble than Bard with his pitch counts.  Bard has had two 7-inning starts and one 6.2-inning start.  Doubront has not had any starts longer than 6 innings.  Other than the high pitch counts Doubront is doing extremely well.  
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUO
    A pitcher who K's 9 batters in 6 innings is going to run up his pitch count. He will obviously not retire any of those 9 with fewer than 3 pitches. On a few 1 and 2 and 2 and 2 counts, Doubront either just missed or got squeezed by the ump. ( Nice to see that he remained calm. He took a lesson from BV's visit to the mound in another game. ) In general, strikeout pitchers will have higher counts than will ones who pitch to contact.
    Yes, it will be good to see Doubront start to go 7+ innings, but just as good ,if not better, to get 6 really strong ones from him while he's learning the job after coming back from an injury. So far, he's done better than Bard overall in their relative number of innings. Effectiveness is still what counts most.  Doubront has lowered his ERA to just under 4. 
    Right, both of them are no doubt on an innings limit, so efficiency is important in each game. We'll just have to see.
    At this moment, if I had to choose one of them to start a game, all things considered, the choice would be easy.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Doubront has been pretty good. Bard is a work in progress. 25 BB in 42 inns pitched is awful and 2 balks in one gm should never happen, that is total lack of focus. The only problem Felix has had is I believe he is very close to leading the the league in pitches per inn.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    In Response to Re: Doubront and Bard:
    [QUOTE]this board does too much hand wringing over these two starters...they are very young, show great poise and promise, and im excited about their long term propects...let them smooth over the rough patches in due time....worry about Clay - he seems to be recessing
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I agree. And to add, the Sox seem to have more than enough arms in the bullpen -- Mortonson was lights out and he's in Pawtucket -- while if Bard moves to the pen like many want, there's not exactly an overflow of quality starters.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from phxvlsoxfan. Show phxvlsoxfan's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    At the risk of beating a common drum, its time to end the Bard experiment.  He is directly following the path that converted Joba Chamberlain from one of the most promising arms in the game to a huge question mark.  Focus on building endorance - check, develop other pitches - check, change delivery - check, loss of velocity - check, rising WHIP and ERA - check.  Next came arm problems and loss of confidence for Joba.  Texas put Ogando back in the pen after a very solid year as a starter, and he's been lights out in that role.  Bard hasn't been anything more than mediocre as a starter and he seems to be getting worse not better as the season progresses.  Give him 7 - 10 days off to regain his velocity and location, then put him back in the 7th/8th inning stopper role.  As for who would be #5, I'd rather see Duckworth, Germano or Tazawa get a chance to bridge to either Cook or Dice.  How much worse can they do?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomp4. Show boomp4's posts

    Re: Doubront and Bard

    Option Bard to the minors and convert him back to a RP. 91 mile an hour fastball - really. A lob to first on grounder to the pitcher that was so weak the runner almost beat the throw. Step into the throw and make a strong throw. My vote minors for bard and maybe Buch too.
     
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