Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    If you haven't been following, these guys have been excellent. Henry Owens in his last start in Portland had a 5 inning no hitter with 3 BB and 10K's.

    In 15 IP in Portland, he's 2-0 with a 1.20 ERA and 29 K's in 15 IP.

    Renaudo didn't give up a run last night in 6 IP I believe. 

    How do we find spots for these guys with a stiff like Dempster on the roster next year?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    I think you're on to something.  Come to think of it....this forum is pretty full, let's use your philosophy and how about you go away?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    Webster, too, and Rowland-Smith has been a great closer all year.  These guys could be big for us in September - maybe Bard can go on the 60-day DL and Pedro Beato can be released.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to ADG's comment:

    How do we find spots for these guys with a stiff like Dempster on the roster next year?



    if only there was a way to transfer players to another team to free up roster space and/or payroll............... MLB should really look into a system for doing so!

     

    DUH!! what a stupid statement ADG..

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    I heard Owens still has some work to do with hs fastball and his velocity is down.  He must be getting guys out with his off speed stuff; which is reportedly really really really good.  No reason to believe with his age and inexperience that he can't polish up his command and increas his durability.  Still this kid is moving fast and I think has a real shot to be good.  A real #3, I think even a strong #2 who might have the highest floor in our system.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    Oh and Ranaudo has been amazing.  He was my prospect binky two years ago then fell off the face of the earth.  He struggled with injury early but even when he got into games he was completely ineffective and was shut down with fatigue.  I remember the sox prospects guys had an interesting take on this over the winter how his last season is almost a testament to how important it is for these guys to ramp up in ST, he never really had a chance to get going last year.  He definitely should get prospect comeback player of the year award. I think we will see Ranaudo much sooner than Owens but both are getting much closer to the show.  Let's not sleep on Barnes who has been deceptively VERY good too after an awful start.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to ADG's comment:

    If you haven't been following, these guys have been excellent. Henry Owens in his last start in Portland had a 5 inning no hitter with 3 BB and 10K's.

    In 15 IP in Portland, he's 2-0 with a 1.20 ERA and 29 K's in 15 IP.

    Renaudo didn't give up a run last night in 6 IP I believe. 

    How do we find spots for these guys with a stiff like Dempster on the roster next year?



    talking about yourself?  it's Ranaudo.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    My guess is Dempster will end up being traded or be an expensive middle reliever.

    Sure wish we had his $13.5M to spend elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we get outbid for Ellsbury by about $10-13M total.

    Sox4ever

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to ADG's comment:

    If you haven't been following, these guys have been excellent. Henry Owens in his last start in Portland had a 5 inning no hitter with 3 BB and 10K's.

    In 15 IP in Portland, he's 2-0 with a 1.20 ERA and 29 K's in 15 IP.

    Renaudo didn't give up a run last night in 6 IP I believe. 

    How do we find spots for these guys with a stiff like Dempster on the roster next year?




    I think both should be close or at their innings limit by the end of their season. I wouldnt give Owens a spot start regarless though. Only a few starts in AA. No need to rush him. Ranaudo is at 133IP and was injured most of last year so he should be shut down soon. We have plenty of other options that hese 2 guys ADG. No need to overwork or rush either of them.

    With the way the schedule is set up, we have 2 off days. One today and one after the LAD series. we can go with a 4 man rotation for now and give everyone the proper rest.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    My guess is Dempster will end up being traded or be an expensive middle reliever.

    Sure wish we had his $13.5M to spend elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we get outbid for Ellsbury by about $10-13M total.

    Sox4ever




    Moon you could be right, which shows why every dollar you spend long term is important....that said, if the Sox allow themselves to get outbid on a Long Term deal for Ells by 10MM.....they should be ashamed of themselves.....2MM a year for a team who hopefully will be adding alot of lower priced young talent on their roster the next few years is not going to put them over the luxury cap threshold.....If the Sox do not get blown away by another bid for Ells, they should do everything in their power to keep him on this team...I like JBJ, but Ells brings things to the table that not many in baseball does today.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to tomnev's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    My guess is Dempster will end up being traded or be an expensive middle reliever.

    Sure wish we had his $13.5M to spend elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we get outbid for Ellsbury by about $10-13M total.

    Sox4ever

     




     

    Moon you could be right, which shows why every dollar you spend long term is important....that said, if the Sox allow themselves to get outbid on a Long Term deal for Ells by 10MM.....they should be ashamed of themselves.....2MM a year for a team who hopefully will be adding alot of lower priced young talent on their roster the next few years is not going to put them over the luxury cap threshold.....If the Sox do not get blown away by another bid for Ells, they should do everything in their power to keep him on this team...I like JBJ, but Ells brings things to the table that not many in baseball does today.




    I know a lot of posters don't want to hear it or believe it, but we do have a finite payroll budget. What we spend in one place can't be spent elsewhere. We may make an over-the-market bid for Ellsbury and others and still be outbid by $10-13M. It's just a fact we have to deal with.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to albertct23's comment:


    Good points in this thread about Renaudo and Owens and the 20-20 hindsight on Dempster's value and his contract. To be consistent however one would have to wait and see how well Renaudo and Owens do on the major league level and apply perfect 20-20 hindsight on them also. 

    The other alternative is to grade your assessment on the Dempster signing when it happened and also go on record as what Renaudo and Owens will become. Make your bets and predictions as if you are at the racetrack where you do it before the race starts. The 20-20 hindsight game isn't played at the track.




    Lots of people did not like the Dempster signing at the time it was made...I'll venture a wild guess that ADG was probably among them. No hindsight really needed there. He has pretty much been what most people expected him to be.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    My guess is Dempster will end up being traded or be an expensive middle reliever.

    Sure wish we had his $13.5M to spend elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we get outbid for Ellsbury by about $10-13M total.

    Sox4ever




    If it comes down to that and they really want Ells, they will make it happen one way or the other. Once again, they dont have to stick to 189M.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens


    The Sox may want to have a lower payroll next year, but I really do not think they are going to even come close to going over a 189MM threshold.....right now with Options and Arbitration raises, Cotts has them at an estimated payroll of 149MM, with Drew, Ells, Hanrahan, Napoli and Salty as Free Agents.....Hanrahan is defintley gone.....Drew and Napoli probably are also....that leaves Ells and Salty...even at the highest end those 2 guys would cost you 30MM, probably less.....if they could move Dempster and even 25% of his Salary, that gives them another 3.5 million....fill any remaining rooster spots with the young guys who are making minimums and you probably have just as good if not better team than this year and you keep Salty and Ells.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to tomnev's comment:


    The Sox may want to have a lower payroll next year, but I really do not think they are going to even come close to going over a 189MM threshold.....right now with Options and Arbitration raises, Cotts has them at an estimated payroll of 149MM, with Drew, Ells, Hanrahan, Napoli and Salty as Free Agents.....Hanrahan is defintley gone.....Drew and Napoli probably are also....that leaves Ells and Salty...even at the highest end those 2 guys would cost you 30MM, probably less.....if they could move Dempster and even 25% of his Salary, that gives them another 3.5 million....fill any remaining rooster spots with the young guys who are making minimums and you probably have just as good if not better team than this year and you keep Salty and Ells.




    Thats what I think they will do tom. Move another contract/player. What I was saying is if they were going to have to go over 189M to get it done, I think they would for one year. Since so much payroll comes off the books after next year, they would be able to easily reset again in 2015.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to albertct23's comment:


    Good points in this thread about Renaudo and Owens and the 20-20 hindsight on Dempster's value and his contract. To be consistent however one would have to wait and see how well Renaudo and Owens do on the major league level and apply perfect 20-20 hindsight on them also. 

    The other alternative is to grade your assessment on the Dempster signing when it happened and also go on record as what Renaudo and Owens will become. Make your bets and predictions as if you are at the racetrack where you do it before the race starts. The 20-20 hindsight game isn't played at the track.




    For me, it isn't 20-20 hindsight. I specifically mentioned the budget crunch for 2014 when I spoke out against the Dempster signing on day 1. (Also, the 3-year Victorino signing as well.)

    This isn't about making room for Owens or Ranaudo for 2014, to me; it's about money we will need to spend on CF, 1B, C, RP, and maybe 3B or SS as well, and the ability of this team to hand over several slots to rookies at the same time, in order to be able to afford signing 2-3 key major free agents.

    Now that we have Peavy, and assuming we take Lester's $13M option, the SP budget is eating a big chunk of our overall player payroll budget. We could end up trading Lester, Dempster, or even Lackey, but I'm of the mind that you don't trade away pitching, unless the return value is too good to pass up. The fact that Workman, Britton, Webster, de la Rosa, and Ranaudo could all be ready for 2014 is not a problem to me. It's an advantage. We can wait to trade excess pitching next summer, when the premium is high. I would consider traing pitching prospects for G. Stanton, or trade one of our veteran pitchers in a three way deal along with other prospects to get Stanton or another big bopper for Papi protection and future middle order strength, but I'm no0t sure that's a possibility. The cost would likely be too high.

    Britton, DLR and Workman can stay in the pen. That would probably solve a need area by itself at no extra cost to the budget. I look at ti this way: we have 5 big need areas with one overlying need: a big middle order hitter. We have kids or vets who can cover each of those 5 positions, but if we leave all 5 to in-system solutions, we will not likely compete for a ring. We need to choose 2 positions for the kids and fill the other 3 with FAs. Here' how I rate our highest need areas or most likely to be filled by a FA not a prospect (at least for a 1 year bridge deal):

    1) Catcher: I don't trust Lava & Ross with vazquez in the wings and Swihart and Denny way down the road. We will need to sign Salty or McCann to not take a step back. We may also sign a bridge catcher, as long as we upgrade with a big bopper at another position.

    2) CF: I like JBJ a lot. I think he is ready to step in. No, he will not replace Ellsbury's production and intagibles, but he does bring excellent defense and decent base-running to the table. We can also use Victorino in CF if JBJ struggles, gets hurt, needs a rest, or needs to be platooned, but then that opens up a RF slot not easily filled with Nava, Gomes or Carp due to fielding issues.

    3) 3B: I like Middy at 1B and Boggy at 3B, but if that does not happen and Middy struggles, we will have a need at 3B.

    4) SS (3B): Bogaerts is best at 3B, in my opinion (see 1B/3b above), but he probably will be at SS next year. One option might be to try and bring Drew back and move Boggy to 3B and MIddy to 1B this winter. I feel more comfortable with a mix of Middy, Carp, Nava and Papi at 1B than just the latter 3 alone.

    5) 1B: Middlebrooks can be moved to 1B or kept at 3B (see Bogaerts), but is he someone we can count on next year wire to wire? Having Cecchini in the wings is nice, but he probably won't be ML ready until Sept 2014 at the earliest. Snyder and Holt can cover a 15 day DL, but I wouldn't count on anything more from them. Carp, Nava, and Papi can cover 1B, if we Middy does well at 3B, but I'm thinking 1B might be that slot we try and find that big hitter to bat behind Papi.

    We can be pretty sure Boggy will be at SS or 3B, so one of those slots will not be filled by a FA. That leaves 4 openings. To me, JBJ and Middy are the two top candidates for in-house solutions to the CF, 3B/1B holes, but I am not sure we can afford to give all 3 kids a FT role day 1 of 2014 (Boggy, Middy & JBJ). Chances are we sign a catcher and a corner IF'er or CF'er/RF'er...maybe all 3. Two big names and one bridge players signing.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    My guess is Dempster will end up being traded or be an expensive middle reliever.

    Sure wish we had his $13.5M to spend elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we get outbid for Ellsbury by about $10-13M total.

    Sox4ever

     




    If it comes down to that and they really want Ells, they will make it happen one way or the other. Once again, they dont have to stick to 189M.

     




    I agree, but even if Ben has the OK to go over $189M a little, if we sign Ellsbury, the $13.5M earmarked for Dempster will mean we can't spend on a catcher or 1Bman or 3B/SS (whichever Boggy is not playing).

    Question: would you rather have Salty or Dempster next year? If we sign Ellsbury, we may not be able to afford Salty and a big bat for 1B or 3B.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to tomnev's comment:


    The Sox may want to have a lower payroll next year, but I really do not think they are going to even come close to going over a 189MM threshold.....right now with Options and Arbitration raises, Cotts has them at an estimated payroll of 149MM, with Drew, Ells, Hanrahan, Napoli and Salty as Free Agents.....Hanrahan is defintley gone.....Drew and Napoli probably are also....that leaves Ells and Salty...even at the highest end those 2 guys would cost you 30MM, probably less.....if they could move Dempster and even 25% of his Salary, that gives them another 3.5 million....fill any remaining rooster spots with the young guys who are making minimums and you probably have just as good if not better team than this year and you keep Salty and Ells.




    The problem is signing Ellsbury and Saltu does not improve the team: it just makes it not get worse. Signing both of them will come pretty close to using up all the "cap space". We'll have enough to sign a bridge player at 1B/3B or SS (if we move Boggy to 3B and Middy to 1B), but to keep Ellsbury and Salty and sign or trade for a big contract middle of the order bopper, we will almost certainly go over the luxury6 tax limit. Had we not signed Dempster, that would not be the case. We could get all three and still be under the limit.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    My guess is Dempster will end up being traded or be an expensive middle reliever.

    Sure wish we had his $13.5M to spend elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we get outbid for Ellsbury by about $10-13M total.

    Sox4ever

     




    If it comes down to that and they really want Ells, they will make it happen one way or the other. Once again, they dont have to stick to 189M.

     

     




    I agree, but even if Ben has the OK to go over $189M a little, if we sign Ellsbury, the $13.5M earmarked for Dempster will mean we can't spend on a catcher or 1Bman or 3B/SS (whichever Boggy is not playing).

     

    Question: would you rather have Salty or Dempster next year? If we sign Ellsbury, we may not be able to afford Salty and a big bat for 1B or 3B.

    [/QUOTE]


    They will probably trade Dempster in the offseason. He is the oddman out and his contract IS movable. Salty WILL be on this team next season. If negotiations on his long term deal don't come to fruition then worst case scenario the sox give him a QO which lowers his value to other teams and he DEFINITELY accepts that. but i doubt it even comes to that TBH.

    if we resign Ells and Salty we still have a lot of resources left to fill the other holes in our team. We'd still have some cash left over and moreso if we make a salary dump trade. Our farm system is STACKED and not all of those guys are going to pan out. Get value for them while you can. Go into 2014 with the notion that Middy is your starting 3Bman and Xander the SS. Sign a bridge infielder as insurance for the two.

    that just leaves first base which at the very worst turns out to be a Nava/Carp platoon. You could do worse there but obviously don't want that to be plan A. Sox could sign Corey Hart to a 1 year, incentive laden "value building" deal as he is coming off of an injury. Kendrys Morales is another option but he would likely be more expensive and IMO not as good as Hart (who also plays the OF).

    -Salty/ross/Lava

    -Hart/Morales/Napoli/Nava+Carp

    -Pedey

    -Xander

    -Middy

    -Nava/Gomes/Stanton?

    -Ells

    -IVC

    -Papi

     

    We have the assets available to field a team consisting of any combination of those names above.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    They will probably trade Dempster in the offseason. He is the oddman out and his contract IS movable. Salty WILL be on this team next season. If negotiations on his long term deal don't come to fruition then worst case scenario the sox give him a QO which lowers his value to other teams and he DEFINITELY accepts that. but i doubt it even comes to that TBH.

    Lackey is probably the most "moveable" SP, since he has the 2015 team option at minimum salary. I do think we try to move Dempster, but may have to eat $3-5M of his deal just to get a minimal return prospect.

     

    if we resign Ells and Salty we still have a lot of resources left to fill the other holes in our team. We'd still have some cash left over and moreso if we make a salary dump trade. Our farm system is STACKED and not all of those guys are going to pan out. Get value for them while you can. Go into 2014 with the notion that Middy is your starting 3Bman and Xander the SS. Sign a bridge infielder as insurance for the two.

    I agree that this could happen, although I still think someone will way overbid for Ellsbury and he will bolt. Assuming we keep Ellsbury and Salty, ideally, we should look to sign a player that can play 1B anbd 3B for a one year deal. However, we still would have failed to fill one of our two biggest need areas:

    1) A true ace pictehr that is durable and reliable.

    2) A true middle of the order stud.

    I don't see any FA that fits these roles, so a trade would have to happen. That would mean opening new holes at other slots or trading top prospects for someone like Stanton.

     

    that just leaves first base which at the very worst turns out to be a Nava/Carp platoon. You could do worse there but obviously don't want that to be plan A. Sox could sign Corey Hart to a 1 year, incentive laden "value building" deal as he is coming off of an injury. Kendrys Morales is another option but he would likely be more expensive and IMO not as good as Hart (who also plays the OF).

    I like Morales, but he may be looking for a 3+ year deal.

     

    -Salty/ross/Lava

    -Hart/Morales/Napoli/Nava+Carp

    -Pedey

    -Xander

    -Middy

    -Nava/Gomes/Stanton?

    -Ells

    -IVC

    -Papi

     

    We have the assets available to field a team consisting of any combination of those names above.

    Can we keep Ellsbury, Salty and fill one of the two big needs I listed above? To me, that's the only way we can become a top 2 favorite for 2014 and beyond. (Now, there's a chance Boggy can become"that guy", but counting on that for 2014 is a bit much, in my opinion.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They will probably trade Dempster in the offseason. He is the oddman out and his contract IS movable. Salty WILL be on this team next season. If negotiations on his long term deal don't come to fruition then worst case scenario the sox give him a QO which lowers his value to other teams and he DEFINITELY accepts that. but i doubt it even comes to that TBH.

    Lackey is probably the most "moveable" SP, since he has the 2015 team option at minimum salary. I do think we try to move Dempster, but may have to eat $3-5M of his deal just to get a minimal return prospect.

    that's not the point, it would be a salary dump.

     

    if we resign Ells and Salty we still have a lot of resources left to fill the other holes in our team. We'd still have some cash left over and moreso if we make a salary dump trade. Our farm system is STACKED and not all of those guys are going to pan out. Get value for them while you can. Go into 2014 with the notion that Middy is your starting 3Bman and Xander the SS. Sign a bridge infielder as insurance for the two.

    I agree that this could happen, although I still think someone will way overbid for Ellsbury and he will bolt. Assuming we keep Ellsbury and Salty, ideally, we should look to sign a player that can play 1B anbd 3B for a one year deal. However, we still would have failed to fill one of our two biggest need areas:

    1) A true ace pictehr that is durable and reliable.

    Its pretty unrealistic to think we get one of these in the offseason regardless of whether we get Jacoby and/or Salty. No one is giving away ToR pitchers. You have to develop them for the most part. Or wait for one to hit FA and pay a guy who only plays every 5 days 150M+

    2) A true middle of the order stud.

    I don't see any FA that fits these roles, so a trade would have to happen. That would mean opening new holes at other slots or trading top prospects for someone like Stanton.

    Some might argue that this would be a better route than letting jacoby and/or salty walk and throwing money at outsiders hoping they can play in Boston.

     

    that just leaves first base which at the very worst turns out to be a Nava/Carp platoon. You could do worse there but obviously don't want that to be plan A. Sox could sign Corey Hart to a 1 year, incentive laden "value building" deal as he is coming off of an injury. Kendrys Morales is another option but he would likely be more expensive and IMO not as good as Hart (who also plays the OF).

    I like Morales, but he may be looking for a 3+ year deal.

    Hart is a much better option IMO. He has the better track record and plays multiple positions at a higher defensive level than Morales..  and like i said, his injury status might allow us to entice him with a year playing in Fenway and the rest of the hitter friendly ALE parks and he can cash in the following offseason. Always a possibility.

     

    -Salty/ross/Lava

    -Hart/Morales/Napoli/Nava+Carp

    -Pedey

    -Xander

    -Middy

    -Nava/Gomes/Stanton?

    -Ells

    -IVC

    -Papi

     

    We have the assets available to field a team consisting of any combination of those names above.

    Can we keep Ellsbury, Salty and fill one of the two big needs I listed above? To me, that's the only way we can become a top 2 favorite for 2014 and beyond. (Now, there's a chance Boggy can become"that guy", but counting on that for 2014 is a bit much, in my opinion.

    we don't have 1 of those now and we're a top 2 favorite to reach the WS. Who are you signing with the money leftover from not getting Ells that is going to magically make us a WS favorite despite just losing one of our best players?

     

    Sox4ever




     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    I stated next season, not this season. Ranaudo may be up in September, Owens, no.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to ADG's comment:

    I stated next season, not this season. Ranaudo may be up in September, Owens, no.




    Dempster and Lackey have very tradable contracts. Might have to eat 3-5M of dempsters, but if his replacement can give you that kind of value making 500,000, then its not a big deal.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Down on the Farm - Renaudo and Owens

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    They will probably trade Dempster in the offseason. He is the oddman out and his contract IS movable. Salty WILL be on this team next season. If negotiations on his long term deal don't come to fruition then worst case scenario the sox give him a QO which lowers his value to other teams and he DEFINITELY accepts that. but i doubt it even comes to that TBH.

    Lackey is probably the most "moveable" SP, since he has the 2015 team option at minimum salary. I do think we try to move Dempster, but may have to eat $3-5M of his deal just to get a minimal return prospect.

    that's not the point, it would be a salary dump.

    Yes, I get that point and would rather do that than trade Lackey.

     

     

    if we resign Ells and Salty we still have a lot of resources left to fill the other holes in our team. We'd still have some cash left over and moreso if we make a salary dump trade. Our farm system is STACKED and not all of those guys are going to pan out. Get value for them while you can. Go into 2014 with the notion that Middy is your starting 3Bman and Xander the SS. Sign a bridge infielder as insurance for the two.

    I agree that this could happen, although I still think someone will way overbid for Ellsbury and he will bolt. Assuming we keep Ellsbury and Salty, ideally, we should look to sign a player that can play 1B anbd 3B for a one year deal. However, we still would have failed to fill one of our two biggest need areas:

    1) A true ace pictehr that is durable and reliable.

    Its pretty unrealistic to think we get one of these in the offseason regardless of whether we get Jacoby and/or Salty. No one is giving away ToR pitchers. You have to develop them for the most part. Or wait for one to hit FA and pay a guy who only plays every 5 days 150M+

    I didn't mention it here, but on other threads, I stated that this probably isn't the year to acquire an ace. Last winter's FA pitchers ddin't really offer anyone I liked a lot, although I did think spending on A Sanchez would have been better than signing Dempster, Victorino and Drew, which cost about the same.

     

     

    2) A true middle of the order stud.

    I don't see any FA that fits these roles, so a trade would have to happen. That would mean opening new holes at other slots or trading top prospects for someone like Stanton.

    Some might argue that this would be a better route than letting jacoby and/or salty walk and throwing money at outsiders hoping they can play in Boston.

     

    that just leaves first base which at the very worst turns out to be a Nava/Carp platoon. You could do worse there but obviously don't want that to be plan A. Sox could sign Corey Hart to a 1 year, incentive laden "value building" deal as he is coming off of an injury. Kendrys Morales is another option but he would likely be more expensive and IMO not as good as Hart (who also plays the OF).

    I like Morales, but he may be looking for a 3+ year deal.

    Hart is a much better option IMO. He has the better track record and plays multiple positions at a higher defensive level than Morales..  and like i said, his injury status might allow us to entice him with a year playing in Fenway and the rest of the hitter friendly ALE parks and he can cash in the following offseason. Always a possibility.

    I see your point, but think Morales for a one year deal would fit nicely in Boston.

     

    -Salty/ross/Lava

    -Hart/Morales/Napoli/Nava+Carp

    -Pedey

    -Xander

    -Middy

    -Nava/Gomes/Stanton?

    -Ells

    -IVC

    -Papi

     

    We have the assets available to field a team consisting of any combination of those names above.

    Can we keep Ellsbury, Salty and fill one of the two big needs I listed above? To me, that's the only way we can become a top 2 favorite for 2014 and beyond. (Now, there's a chance Boggy can become"that guy", but counting on that for 2014 is a bit much, in my opinion.

    we don't have 1 of those now and we're a top 2 favorite to reach the WS. Who are you signing with the money leftover from not getting Ells that is going to magically make us a WS favorite despite just losing one of our best players?

    I said, even if we get Ells and Salty, we'll still need someone else to make us a top contender. Someone like Stanton. We may be top 2 favorite to win the AL, but one could also argue we are the 4th or 5th favorite as well. (Det, TB, TX, Oak/Bos)

    I still think Ellsbury will walk, so I'll answer your question anyways. We'd have to sign McCann or Salty just to stay about even at catcher. Then, we'd have to trade for a guy like Stanton. We'd have to sign Morales, Morneau or Hart at 1B, and probably bring Drew back or find a better corner IF'er and stick with Boggy at SS. It won't be easy, unless we seriously upgrade our staff to compensate for the loss on offense.

     

    Sox4ever

     

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