Drew & Morales

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

    I'm just amazed Drew still isn't a Met, especially as they'd only give up a 3rd round pick.



    I guess they'd rather make a few extra million and win less games.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    On Drew, my understanding is that he's gotten some offers, but he's holding out for more.

    On Morales, he's not really that good.  ~ .782 each of the past two seasons, for a DH?

    Kendrys Morales was in the middle of the DH pack in wRC+ last season:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p os=dh&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

    Delete the space between the "p" and the "os" in the link because this forum does not permit those letters to appear alone consecutively.

    Morales is a defensively adequate firstbaseman.



    I can buy middle of the pack DH.  But how much that does that pay?  The best DH in history gets screamed at by his fans for asking $14-15M.  Past that, he needs to consider a bunch of factors-

    • As a presumed DH, his market is cut down to 15 teams.
    • For his presumed $14M salary, you need money, and that cuts his market to 7 AL teams with ~ $100M payroll.
    • Cut out the teams with a DH, and you are down to 4-TO, BA, TX, & LAA.  And since LAA almost has to reserve the DH slot for Pujols, you only have 3 possibilities.
    • All those teams have DHs, albeit weak.  If you're those teams, and even if you were willing to lose a draft pick, which is overrated in some cases, and had $14M lying around, would you upgrade your DH to Morales, or repalce your #5 SP with Santana or his equivalent?
    • Even if you needed a DH, why not sign Cruz for the $8M he got, and at least nominally have an OF option?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

    I'm just amazed Drew still isn't a Met, especially as they'd only give up a 3rd round pick.



    That was an odd one.  Tejada is tempting at minimum wage, but he showed nothing in ST.  And they paid Granderson $13M and Young $7M+.  Grandy was in decline, had an .811 and .723 the past two years, and had a K-rate of about 28% last year.  He seemed like a huge reach for a contract ending at 36.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    its a shame that 2 players with their talent are still sitting at home right now. This QO rule needs to be tweaked some IMHO...



    not necessarily.  This new system is just as new to the players and agents as it is to the teams.  Hypothetically players of Drew and Morales caliber accept the Q.O. next year, and if teams don't want those guys back then the following year teams don't even extend the offer to those guys.

    For the reasons that we don't like this system...I feel like it will work itself out in a year or two.  




    I agree hugh

    it's time  for the union 2 act like a union (perhaps they already have been)

    and pressuse these border line players to accept the QO 2 keep the GM's honest

    IMO this system is a lot fairer 4 the players than the old

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    These two were at the age that free agents typically sign their biggest and longest contracts. I was understandable they held out for that type of deal, but the have to live with the consequences. It's not like they will be getting food stamps or anything.

    Eventually, they will get more large paychecks.



    Understandable for Drew, maybe, but how was anyone going to top the $14M Seattle was offering for Morales?  Choo, McCann, and Pence are all $17M-18M players and, imo, far better than Morales.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    I agree hugh

    it's time  for the union 2 act like a union (perhaps they already have been)

    and pressuse these border line players to accept the QO 2 keep the GM's honest

    IMO this system is a lot fairer 4 the players than the old

    I think the two systems are pretty similar.  You lose a #1 either way, and they accepted arb formerly, or now accept $14.1M.  Seems close enough.

    I think the biggest difference is that teams value their picks more now.  In the old days, the NYY could lose their first three picks, then spend $10M on guys that fell on signability issues.

    Past that, I agree.  So far, the reaction of the players, 100%, is that the free agent market is so lucrative, it's worth it to decline a guarantee of $14M.  And the fact that one player has turned down contracts in the hope for more money, and the second made a really bad choice, doesn't mean the system doesn't work.

    IMO, it's like me quitting my job, asking for $200k, and then complaining the system doesn't work.  When maybe the correct answer is that I just wasn't worth $200k.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    These two were at the age that free agents typically sign their biggest and longest contracts. I was understandable they held out for that type of deal, but the have to live with the consequences. It's not like they will be getting food stamps or anything.

    Eventually, they will get more large paychecks.



    Understandable for Drew, maybe, but how was anyone going to top the $14M Seattle was offering for Morales?  Choo, McCann, and Pence are all $17M-18M players and, imo, far better than Morales.



    I think Drew and Morales would have preferred $33-36M/3 years over $14M/1 year and thought they could get it. That's not an unreasonable expectation.

    They guessed wrong and are now paying for it.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    I think the two systems are pretty similar.  You lose a #1 either way, and they accepted arb formerly, or now accept $14.1M.  Seems close enough.

    I hear that JB

    not sure whether my memory is accurate or not

    but it's seems to me that a lot more  lesser players 

    ' type B' and 'middle relievers'  were getting squeezed

    in the old system

     

     

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    its a shame that 2 players with their talent are still sitting at home right now. This QO rule needs to be tweaked some IMHO...



    not necessarily.  This new system is just as new to the players and agents as it is to the teams.  Hypothetically players of Drew and Morales caliber accept the Q.O. next year, and if teams don't want those guys back then the following year teams don't even extend the offer to those guys.

    For the reasons that we don't like this system...I feel like it will work itself out in a year or two.  




    I agree hugh

    it's time  for the union 2 act like a union (perhaps they already have been)

    and pressuse these border line players to accept the QO 2 keep the GM's honest

    IMO this system is a lot fairer 4 the players than the old



    I agree, it is a lot more fair.  I'm sure some are complaining about it, and others will point to the Drew and Morales situation and say it's not player friendly....but like I said earlier once the market adjusts to this system players like them won't receive the Q.O.

    No matter which way you slice it, any system is going to be unfair to someone.  There will always be someone stuck in that inbetween.  Perhaps there is a team with a Stephen Drew caliber player next year...they might not extend the offer, but if they really want to keep him around they might offer it anyways.

    FOr these inbetween players the Q.O. could be a great tool for smaller market teams to hold onto a player for a year instead of signing them to 4.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    its a shame that 2 players with their talent are still sitting at home right now. This QO rule needs to be tweaked some IMHO...



    Why does it need to be tweaked? They could have just taken the $14.1M one year deal (in Drew's case, a 55% raise) produced like a $14.1M ballplayer should, and go back into
    free agency next year.

    The issue is they have the same greedy agent, Scott Boras, who thought the market for these ballplayers was more than it really was.



    Totally.  Plus Heyman is a buddy of Boras', so consider what he says to be Boras' sde.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    I think the two systems are pretty similar.  You lose a #1 either way, and they accepted arb formerly, or now accept $14.1M.  Seems close enough.

    I hear that JB

    not sure whether my memory is accurate or not

    but it's seems to me that a lot more  lesser players 

    ' type B' and 'middle relievers'  were getting squeezed

    in the old system

     

     

     

     



    No compensation required for the Type B, so there was no penalty at all.  The only downside was having to offer them arbitration, but teams got around that by a gentlemen's agreement that the team would offer it, and the player would decline.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Drew & Morales

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    These two were at the age that free agents typically sign their biggest and longest contracts. I was understandable they held out for that type of deal, but the have to live with the consequences. It's not like they will be getting food stamps or anything.

    Eventually, they will get more large paychecks.



    Understandable for Drew, maybe, but how was anyone going to top the $14M Seattle was offering for Morales?  Choo, McCann, and Pence are all $17M-18M players and, imo, far better than Morales.



    I think Drew and Morales would have preferred $33-36M/3 years over $14M/1 year and thought they could get it. That's not an unreasonable expectation.

    They guessed wrong and are now paying for it.



    I guess two people could reach differing conclusions on Morales, but he is worth nowhere near $33-36M imo.  He's had only one year where his OPS > .833, and that was back in 2009, before his injury.

     
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