why would you replace Cook? what has beckett done to win games? what is his winning pct of games he started v Cook? How many games has Cook put the Sox behind in the first inning and starting the team off in a deep hole? this thread is a joke....replace Cook for his last few outings? meanehile beckett pitched how many games ina row avg 4 runs per FIRST inning and then pulled himself out of a game for the third injury this year? didnt Cook STAY in the game with a gash that went practically to the bone until he got lightheaded from the wound? are you really comparing these two guys this year and saying beckett has been a better pitcher and teammate?
LOLOLOL
Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
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Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:04 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7384
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Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:11 PM EDT
- Iceman4
- Posts: 1578
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just for the record...I'm not advocating replacing Cook with Lowe....just thought he might be worth the pickup if injury might become an issue...or if somebody started to get really worse.
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Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:20 PM EDT
- slasher9
- Posts: 1334
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Geo - Beckett won't be replaced as a starter. money they are paying him dictates that. no matter how poorly he acts or throws the baseball. Cook on the otherhand can be jettison with little consequence. comparisons dont matter as Beckett will never be pulled from the rotatation (save DL/injury).... -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:21 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:why would you replace Cook? what has beckett done to win games? what is his winning pct of games he started v Cook? How many games has Cook put the Sox behind in the first inning and starting the team off in a deep hole? this thread is a joke....replace Cook for his last few outings? meanehile beckett pitched how many games ina row avg 4 runs per FIRST inning and then pulled himself out of a game for the third injury this year? didnt Cook STAY in the game with a gash that went practically to the bone until he got lightheaded from the wound? are you really comparing these two guys this year and saying beckett has been a better pitcher and teammate? LOLOLOL
Posted by georom4
Nice rant. I'm beginning to learn that you are just a "non caps" version of Bill, meaning you are so entrenched in your positions you are incapable of rationale discussion but here we go....
Comparing Cook vs. Beckett in 2012 is not easy given that one has made more than twice as many starts as the other but a look at the numbers actually does tell you that Beckett has been better. Way better K/9 ratio, Way way better HR numbers, .70 better ERA. Beckett also has a higher ratio of quality starts. These are just facts, not that such things interest you. I couldn't find a "better teammate" stat but Beckett does have a superior WAR.
The point of the thread really wasn't to compare the 2 though, it was to hold the irrational Becket bashers, i.e. you, accountable. You and your ilk claim the Sox should dump Beckett at any and all cost, without addressing the on field implications that would have. Those implications including that the Red Sox don't have the pitching depth to simply dump Beckett, as evidenced by Cook's last 3 starts.
I like that it is a "joke" to discuss replacing Cook after a "few bad outings" but after a few good outings you found it realistic to say he was better than Beckett. Those of us who practice accountibility would call that a double standard. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:24 PM EDT
- georom4
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- First: 4/9/2009
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what is the team record of games they have started....? -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:29 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:what is the team record of games they have started....?
Posted by georom4
The team winning % is nearly identical. Keep trying though...... -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:32 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7384
- First: 4/9/2009
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what is it???? why be vague? -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:40 PM EDT
- georom4
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : Nice rant. I'm beginning to learn that you are just a "non caps" version of Bill, meaning you are so entrenched in your positions you are incapable of rationale discussion but here we go.... Comparing Cook vs. Beckett in 2012 is not easy given that one has made more than twice as many starts as the other but a look at the numbers actually does tell you that Beckett has been better. Way better K/9 ratio, Way way better HR numbers, .70 better ERA. Beckett also has a higher ratio of quality starts. These are just facts, not that such things interest you. I couldn't find a "better teammate" stat but Beckett does have a superior WAR. The point of the thread really wasn't to compare the 2 though, it was to hold the irrational Becket bashers, i.e. you, accountable. You and your ilk claim the Sox should dump Beckett at any and all cost, without addressing the on field implications that would have. Those implications including that the Red Sox don't have the pitching depth to simply dump Beckett, as evidenced by Cook's last 3 starts. I like that it is a "joke" to discuss replacing Cook after a "few bad outings" but after a few good outings you found it realistic to say he was better than Beckett. Those of us who practice accountibility would call that a double standard.
Posted by Thesemenarecowards
you didnt mention the metricgeek stat of choice for pitchers..WHIP...why? -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:40 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:what is it???? why be vague?
Posted by georom4
You could look it up yourself ya know. Why be lazy?
Beckett 7-11 .388
Cook 3-5 .375
It is kind of fun spoon feeding you your own stupidity. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 12:43 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
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- First: 5/25/2011
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : you didnt mention the metricgeek stat of choice for pitchers..WHIP...why?
Posted by georom4
WHIP is a crucial stat, not a "metricgeek" stat. I didn't mention it because they are nearly identical. If your argument hinges on Cook having a .06 better WHIP in 70 less IP, you are officially done.
I didn't post the H/9 either, why don't you look that one up for me. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:04 PM EDT
- ThefourBs
- Posts: 2083
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : WHIP is a crucial stat, not a "metricgeek" stat. I didn't mention it because they are nearly identical. If your argument hinges on Cook having a .06 better WHIP in 70 less IP, you are officially done. I didn't post the H/9 either, why don't you look that one up for me.
Posted by Thesemenarecowards
"But, but, Cook doesn't make me mad!!!"
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Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:10 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : "But, but, Cook doesn't make me mad!!!"
Posted by ThefourBs
That is pretty much all it boils down to. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:26 PM EDT
- georom4
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so just what exactly are you revisting? you have the highest paid pitcher, your "ace" who gives up more hits/walks per inning andwhose team loses a larger pect of games when he starts.....oh yea and he is on his 3rd trip to the injury farm for a BACK SPASM....against Verlander no less!
Cook, meanwhile he pitched with a gash on his leg that needed to be stapled shot... -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:44 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
- Posts: 3504
- First: 5/25/2011
- Last: 4/9/2013
In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:so just what exactly are you revisting? you have the highest paid pitcher, your "ace" who gives up more hits/walks per inning andwhose team loses a larger pect of games when he starts.....oh yea and he is on his 3rd trip to the injury farm for a BACK SPASM....against Verlander no less! Cook, meanwhile he pitched with a gash on his leg that needed to be stapled shot...
Posted by georom4
I'm revisiting your's and Bill's stupidity for the "No brainer Cook over Beckett" thread. I feel that is clear in my OP. You, and many others, simply think the Red Sox should be done with Beckett without any consideration for what the ramifications of that might be. The fact that Cook is part of the contingency plan just highlights that.
This is pointless, you move the goal posts when your beat, you ignore statistics in favor of hollow rhetoric and run from your own previous assertions. You wanted to know team winning %'s in games started, when it turned out Beckett's was better, you simply move backwards.
Just for the record, you keep brining up the game where Cook hurt his leg... .. he allowed 6 ER in 2 2/3 in that game. In the game Beckett left the other night he allowed 1 ER in 2 2/3. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:47 PM EDT
- JimfromFlorida
- Posts: 5321
- First: 5/30/2008
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:what is the team record of games they have started....?
Posted by georom4
It is not all about W/L or ERA it is about what the team has done in those games pitched. These numbers have shown several times before and are always disregarded by the haters.
RS record when JB pitches W=7 & L=11
in 10 the RS have scored 4 once and 3 or less 9 times
In 4 games he gave up 7, 7, 6 & 5
In 14 games JB has given up 4 runs (3 times) & 3 or less in 11 & he has gone 6+ innings in all 14 most were 7+ (9 times)
In 4 games he has given up 7 twice, 6 and 5 In 8 games
in May and June he gave up 7 in one, 4 twice under 3 in 5 they lost 5 of those games (May & June) because the RS could not score over 3 runs. they only scored over 3 twice both 5 runs and won both.
4 No Decisions and they are 2-2,
2 L were bad games and 2 he gave up 1 & 2 runs a W and a L
Now some one may say he has the same run support as others. On average that is true. How ever you take away an 11 run, 12 run and 8 run game and the RS have scored 5 twice 4 once and 3 or less in 11 games or 2.8 runs per game JB pitches -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:48 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7384
- First: 4/9/2009
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lol...yes the stats tell you everything you need to know about how they handled adversity when injured...Cowards, this "revisitation" might be your bootlooking best ever....especially after the way beckett high tailed it when he got in trouble with men on base...but surprise surprise, he will be readyto pitch against MN!
whats next, revisiting the Bailey Trade? -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:58 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
- Posts: 3504
- First: 5/25/2011
- Last: 4/9/2013
In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:lol...yes the stats tell you everything you need to know about how they handled adversity when injured...Cowards, this "revisitation" might be your bootlooking best ever....especially after the way beckett high tailed it when he got in trouble with men on base...but surprise surprise, he will be readyto pitch against MN! whats next, revisiting the Bailey Trade?
Posted by georom4
I'm not 11 years old. Trying to tough it out and hurting the team is worse than knowing you're hurt and can't help the team. The Red Sox lost the game Cook left after 2 2/3 and won the game Beckett left after 2 2/3. That doesn't matter to you though, it is just another in the long list of facts you choose to ignore.
I don't know what 'bootlicking' means and I really don't know what 'bootlooking' means. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 1:59 PM EDT
- JimfromFlorida
- Posts: 5321
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/19/2013
Cook is 2-5 has thrown 7 innings 3 times, 6 twice and 4 twice and 1 in 2 innings.
RS are 3-5 in his starts
He has given up 7, 6, 6, and 3 or less in 5.
Run support is 34 total take 9 away in one game and rs is 3.5 per game.
You can say they are similar but JB has many more quality starts than Cook -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:01 PM EDT
- JimfromFlorida
- Posts: 5321
- First: 5/30/2008
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:lol...yes the stats tell you everything you need to know about how they handled adversity when injured...Cowards, this "revisitation" might be your bootlooking best ever....especially after the way beckett high tailed it when he got in trouble with men on base...but surprise surprise, he will be readyto pitch against MN! whats next, revisiting the Bailey Trade?
Posted by georom4
geo I will ask again since the question was never answered on another JB thread,
HAVE YOU EVER HAD A BACK SPASM? -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:05 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7384
- First: 4/9/2009
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : I'm not 11 years old. Trying to tough it out and hurting the team is worse than knowing you're hurt and can't help the team. The Red Sox lost the game Cook left after 2 2/3 and won the game Beckett left after 2 2/3. That doesn't matter to you though, it is just another in the long list of facts you choose to ignore. I don't know what 'bootlicking' means and I really don't know what 'bootlooking' means.
Posted by Thesemenarecowards
also, i NEVER advocated replacing Beckett with Cook...i was pizzed that Morales was chosen to relieve rather than Cook...i did make that comment about him being a sinkerballer but you must have me confused with someone else if you think i am a big cook advocate...i expect beckett to start, not cook - but looking at their stats, if you are going to "revisit" anything, it would be that beckett is about as good as a life long journeymen pitcher...and that is the real issue... -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:06 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7384
- First: 4/9/2009
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : geo I will ask again since the question was never answered on another JB thread, HAVE YOU EVER HAD A BACK SPASM ?
Posted by JimfromFlorida
i have and it hurt...but then again im not paid 17 mil to be an athlete...do yoiu see a pattern here Jim? anything troubling???? -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:16 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
- Posts: 3504
- First: 5/25/2011
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Geo, when posed with the question "Beckett or Cook" your 1 word answer was "Cook".Re: Ok all you T-BALLERS, here is a NO-BRAINER for you.... Aaron Cook or Josh Beckett$????
posted at 7/17/2012 12:14 PM EDT
Posts: 5677
First: 4/9/2009
Last: 8/2/2012cook As always - 100% correct!JOSH BECKETT CHUNK FACTOR -
MY OFF DAYS ARE MY OFF DA -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:16 PM EDT
- JimfromFlorida
- Posts: 5321
- First: 5/30/2008
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : i have and it hurt...but then again im not paid 17 mil to be an athlete...do yoiu see a pattern here Jim? anything troubling????
Posted by georom4
SO YOU ADVOCATE A PLAYER WHO GETS PAID A LOT TO STILL PITCH WHEN HE HAS A BACK SPASM?
SEE HAVING HAD A BACK SPASM I WOULD NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO BEND OVER WITH A SPASM NEVER MIND TRY TO PITCH. SINCE YOU KNOW IT WILL GET WORSE WHEN YOU DO NOT TAKE CARE OF IT IMMEDIATELY. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:19 PM EDT
- Thesemenarecowards
- Posts: 3504
- First: 5/25/2011
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited : SO YOU ADVOCATE A PLAYER WHO GETS PAID A LOT TO STILL PITCH WHEN HE HAS A BACK SPASM? SEE HAVING HAD A BACK SPASM I WOULD NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO BEND OVER WITH A SPASM NEVER MIND TRY TO PITCH. SINCE YOU KNOW IT WILL GET WORSE WHEN YOU DO NOT TAKE CARE OF IT IMMEDIATELY.
Posted by JimfromFlorida
Yes, Geo would prefer that Beckett "tough it out". He prefers Cook toughing out 6 ER in 2 2/3 to Beckett "quitting" after 1 ER in 2 2/3.
I guess toughness and a loss is better than discretion and a win. -
Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited
posted at 8/2/2012 2:28 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7384
- First: 4/9/2009
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In Response to Re: Dump Beckett, we have Cook!! Revisited:Geo, when posed with the question "Beckett or Cook" your 1 word answer was "Cook". Re: Ok all you T-BALLERS, here is a NO-BRAINER for you.... Aaron Cook or Josh Beckett$???? posted at 7/17/2012 12:14 PM EDT georom4 Posts: 5677 First: 4/9/2009 Last: 8/2/2012 cook As always - 100% correct! JOSH BECKETT CHUNK FACTOR - MY OFF DAYS ARE MY OFF DA
Posted by Thesemenarecowards
of course i prefer anyone to beckett.....but im pretty sure that was kind of a tongue in cheeck response...i know he is going to start, i expect him st start, and he should start based on his past and salary...when morales comes up to the rotation, i would sit cook...if anyone needs to sit, it is LESTER...but lets not go there...we are stick with our lousy 1 & 2.....but i am not a big fan of cook...i admired him pitching thru pain but he is what he is, a dumpster pick up