Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides

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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    Those saying Bobby V needs to be fired? So, for 2 years in a row the players are deciding who manages the team?  No. You send the message that nobody is expenable. Trade CC for anything. Yup. "Nut, then the Sox will eat his contract!!" Yup.  That's what they are doing NOW!! Start with CC. The fans would respond positively. Firing Bobby V acknowleges the players are running the team.
    Posted by mrbungle

    I am not sure who is saying he needs to be fired.  I have noticed a lof of people saying that he doesn't seem to be effective, but I haven't noticed a lof of people saying that he should be fired.

    It isn't his fault.  That doesn't mean he is doing a good job.

     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : Not to be an azz, but what I find funny is how so many people in Spring Training and early in the year were all "yeah now that we have Bobby V he will straighten everything out"  It didn't take a whole lot of advanced reasoning to figure out he wasn't the guy who could do that.  His whole personality, or should I say persona, is off putting. He looks scared in the dugout.
    Posted by snakeoil123


    I think he's petrified of saying the wrong thing that would immediately bring retribution from the front office.

    Also, not having his own people only magnifies the number of moles on the staff.

    I initially had my doubts about his personality etc. when he was hired, but actually watching and hearing him is as close to painful as one can get.


     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : I think he's petrified of saying the wrong thing that would immediately bring retribution from the front office. Also, not having his own people only magnifies the number of moles on the staff. I initially had my doubts about his personality etc. when he was hired, but actually watching and hearing him is as close to painful as one can get.
    Posted by ampoule

    He has the vibe of a vacuum cleaner salesman that gets paid on commision.

     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : He has the vibe of a vacuum cleaner salesman that gets paid on commision.
    Posted by snakeoil123


    Probaby true...

    In my opinion, respect is earned.  I may be wrong, but his personality just seems the type that expects it.  If this is true, the players are probably just going through the motions...

    Yeah, I know the players are 'professional',  yet other untangible factors can certainly make a difference.
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : I'm not sure it is funny funny, but it is at least wryly humorous.  We had a top-5 manager, and a top-5 GM.  They were so good, that they made it look simple.  People took for granted that anyone could just go out and win 95 and win WSCs. Posted by Joebreidey
    Made it look simple? Down 3-0 to NY in '04, down 3-1 to Cleveland in '07. Nothing simple about that. They did cruise in the WS. But they choked against the Rays and got swept by the Angels since. If Francana was so good, why is he not managing now?
     
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    Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on a...

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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : He has the vibe of a vacuum cleaner salesman that gets paid on commision.
    Posted by snakeoil123

    Snake people on this board who are blaming Valentine are nuts. This team imploded and collapsed on Francona's watch and has never recovered.  Valentine is not a miracle worker, pampered overpaid veterans have made it clear they know Valentine has not got the authority to do much of anything. It is all on these players.  They are the most unlikable team I have seen in Boston.

    If you look at the bullpen you have to attribute the success of it to Valentine.  To your point that Bobby V. looks scared I don't agree at all.  He looks like he knows now for sure that this group of a--holes is never going to let him lead the team and do what needs to be done. What you are looking at is a captain who knows his ship is going down and there is nothing he can do about it. He's not scared, he just took a shot and things were worse than he ever dreamed. Also he wanted a job.
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : Snake people on this board who are blaming Valentine are nuts. This team imploded and collapsed on Francona's watch and has never recovered.  Valentine is not a miracle worker, pampered overpaid veterans have made it clear they know Valentine has not got the authority to do much of anything. It is all on these players.  They are the most unlikable team I have seen in Boston. If you look at the bullpen you have to attribute the success of it to Valentine.  To your point that Bobby V. looks scared I don't agree at all.  He looks like he knows now for sure that this group of a--holes is never going to let him lead the team and do what needs to be done. What you are looking at is a captain who knows his ship is going down and there is nothing he can do about it. He's not scared, he just took a shot and things were worse than he ever dreamed. Also he wanted a job.
    Posted by concord27

    I keep saying I am not blaming him.  I am not calling him out as much as I am calling out the people that saw this cult of personality with Valentine that doesn't exist.

    He is in way over his head.

     
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    Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on a...

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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : I keep saying I am not blaming him.  I am not calling him out as much as I am calling out the people that saw this cult of personality with Valentine that doesn't exist. He is in way over his head.
    Posted by snakeoil123

    My point is that anybody in Valentine's shoes in this toxic environment would be in over their head.  You need the authority to run the asylum.

    Valentine can be a jerk, but he is a smart manager.  This team he manages is not even sufficiently embarassed by their terrible play to try to follow him.
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : My point is that anybody in Valentine's shoes in this toxic environment would be in over their head.  You need the authority to run the asylum. Valentine can be a jerk, but he is a smart manager.  This team he manages is not even sufficiently embarassed by their terrible play to try to follow him.
    Posted by concord27

    I would not disagree with that.

    Again that doesn't mean I think Valentine is doing a good job or having any real positive effect.



     
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    Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on a...


    What in the world are 'snake people'?...    Laughing
     
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    Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on a...

    I saw Bobby V as likely staying three years, four tops.  If he was as cunning and good a manager as his hype said he would be.

    I think I was wrong about the length of his stay at Fenway. He'll be gone after next season, unless he quits and goes back to broadcasting.

    I am not the first to observe this, but saddling him with leftover coaches was a dead giveaway that he would not be around long.
     
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    I saw Bobby V as likely staying three years, four tops.  If he was as cunning and good a manager as his hype said he would be. I think I was wrong about the length of his stay at Fenway. He'll be gone after next season, unless he quits and goes back to broadcasting. I am not the first to observe this, but saddling him with leftover coaches was a dead giveaway that he would not be around long.
    Posted by summerof67
    They'll probably bring in Farrell when his contract comes up, ya think? That's a very nice picture of Teddy Ballgame too, that's who it is in your avatar right?
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : They'll probably bring in Farrell when his contract comes up, ya think? That's a very nice picture of Teddy Ballgame too, that's who it is in your avatar right?
    Posted by carnie


    Hey, carnie: Yes, old friend, that is the Splendid Splinter himself and I believe it is a picture from opening day at Fenway, 1947.

    I'd like Farrell to return as well, but if TOR doesn't  keep him, someone else will woo him.  Not sure he would come back, but I have been wrong before and will be wrong again.
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    I think not having his own coaching staff was a definite Red Flag, and really the ultimate Red Flag of not being the 1st choice of your new GM. That is like a Red Flag that covers an entire City, that big of a flag.
    Posted by dannycater



    re red flags should we mention not having decision making on who plays or sits
    and not having backing of ngt and ownership in interactions wtih the playres (ie youK).

    u wont knwo how it could have turned out as he has 2 hands and one leg tied behind his back by ownership and tehn they are pushing him out there adn say fix it.

    lame ownership group
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : I'm not sure it is funny funny, but it is at least wryly humorous.  We had a top-5 manager, and a top-5 GM.  They were so good, that they made it look simple.  People took for granted that anyone could just go out and win 95 and win WSCs.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    teh top 5 gm adn top 5 manager created a poison ship that were circling the toilet bowl. what we have this year they sewed teh past few
     
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    bobby v made youk get injured last last 3 years and made him basically useless...darn that evil bobby v
    Posted by georom4


    +1
     
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    Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on a...

    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : Snake people on this board who are blaming Valentine are nuts. This team imploded and collapsed on Francona's watch and has never recovered.  Valentine is not a miracle worker, pampered overpaid veterans have made it clear they know Valentine has not got the authority to do much of anything. It is all on these players.  They are the most unlikable team I have seen in Boston. If you look at the bullpen you have to attribute the success of it to Valentine.  To your point that Bobby V. looks scared I don't agree at all.  He looks like he knows now for sure that this group of a--holes is never going to let him lead the team and do what needs to be done. What you are looking at is a captain who knows his ship is going down and there is nothing he can do about it. He's not scared, he just took a shot and things were worse than he ever dreamed. Also he wanted a job.
    Posted by concord27


    This team was a mess before little bobby v., but this is not mutually exclusive of him being a stooge!  Sorry, but he's been a very sad joke, and absolutely the wrong guy for the job.  It's not his fault, it's just who he is!  He's a manager, who is way past his prime, who has a very odd personality.  One that does not inspire confidence, & is easy to not take seriously!!!!

    Probably a nice enough guy, just THE WORST pick for manager of these Boston Red Sox possible!!!!  He will absolutely be gone at the end of the season, if not sooner!  YOU can bank on that!!!
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    It's actually pretty funny because I seem to remember Gordon Edes being one of the main proponents of bringing in Bobby V in the first place. I do like Valentine as a manager though. He's done an excellent job with the bullpen in particular. Bobby V is not the problem with this team. The problem has been the starting pitching. Lester and Beckett have both pretty much stunk. Although to be fair they both are starting to show signs of turning it around. If those two could get straightened out this team could go on a roll for the ages.
    Posted by carnie


    absolutely right.
    adn re edes,
    hes selling reads. thats his job, to get eyes reading
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : In the modern game, setting up and managing the BP is of primary importance. Given the weakness of the starters, just imagine where this club would be without the pen's performance so far.  The sheer number of days Sox players have been on the DL, including people like Pedroia and Ellsbury and now Ortiz, is telling. Nava has been slumping for quite a while. Aviles has faded some. Right now, Gonzo and Ciriaco and Middlebrooks are hitting, but Gonzo heretofore did not hit with power, Middlebrooks went through a bad stretch, and Ciriaco was in Pawtucket. Salty's power has been consistent, but he has other problems at the plate.  Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the record is not worse than it is. 
    Posted by expitch



    exactly
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : This team was a mess before little bobby v., but this is not mutually exclusive of him being a stooge!  Sorry, but he's been a very sad joke, and absolutely the wrong guy for the job.  It's not his fault, it's just who he is!  He's a manager, who is way past his prime, who has a very odd personality.  One that does not inspire confidence, & is easy to not take seriously!!!! Probably a nice enough guy, just THE WORST pick for manager of these Boston Red Sox possible!!!!  He will absolutely be gone at the end of the season, if not sooner!  YOU can bank on that!!!
    Posted by redsoxdirtdog



    shouldve hired maddon instead of tito all that time ago, but wanted someone they could manipulate.

    as long as they run it this way, what legit good manager would take the job
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    One more thought on Lester and Beckett that I had meant to put in my other post. If Beckett were to be traded it should probably be next year, because he will probably have a monster year next year. I also wouldn't trade Lester because he can be a very nice pitcher to have around, but he's not a leader. IMO the Sox need a leader on the pitching staff. Kind of like Papi and Pedey are with the every day players.
    Posted by carnie



    "ut he's not a leader. IMO the Sox need a leader on the pitching staff. Kind of like Papi and Pedey are with the every day players."

    i think you are absolutely right
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    Youk has been hurt already on the White Sox.  Did BV do that? What BS ... with all the injuries, you guys can't wait to blame BV?   He pitches?   He makes PD suck until the last week? Get real.  
    Posted by soxmeister


    +1
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : I am not blaming Bobby V.  My whole point was about how a lot of people acted like Francona was the only problem.  Bobby  V has proven without a doubt that notion is not true.
    Posted by snakeoil123


    i dsagree completely. froncona knew how to amke people feel good. but thats nto enough in a manger esepcially when you have players who are not self motivating. the culture tito let be created adn escalate was terrrible. there was no accountability in too many players adn tito was not a guy who could hold anyone acountable for themself.
     
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    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides:
    In Response to Re: Edes:The cracks that showed up earlier this season appear on the verge of breaking wide open. Bobby V's Sox boxed in on all sides : Snake people on this board who are blaming Valentine are nuts. This team imploded and collapsed on Francona's watch and has never recovered.  Valentine is not a miracle worker, pampered overpaid veterans have made it clear they know Valentine has not got the authority to do much of anything. It is all on these players.  They are the most unlikable team I have seen in Boston. If you look at the bullpen you have to attribute the success of it to Valentine.  To your point that Bobby V. looks scared I don't agree at all.  He looks like he knows now for sure that this group of a--holes is never going to let him lead the team and do what needs to be done. What you are looking at is a captain who knows his ship is going down and there is nothing he can do about it. He's not scared, he just took a shot and things were worse than he ever dreamed. Also he wanted a job.
    Posted by concord27


    exxxxaccttttly!
    and the root is nto the players but the ownership/upper mgt.
    afraid to havfe a real mgr becasue they want to meddle.
    tolerated titos ineptness to hold playrs accountable becaue they obnly care about appearance (to fans), nto in doing things right.

    sit idly while players ran roughshod over mgr
    hired someone to fix it but cutr his legs off newver givng him a chance to do anythign but be a scapegoat for the sining ship.

    if they make the playoffs, teh question will be how? with so many rotten holes in the bow of the ship

     
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