Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    2011 wasn't just a career year, it was astonishing beyond what anyone thought he was capable of. 32 dingers was over threes times as many as his best season before 2011. 

     And this year he is right back to pre-2011--actually, a little worse even than 2008.  Did PED's get him that extra power?   

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    If he was taking PEDs in 2011 then why did he stop? 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxman2012. Show soxman2012's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    Your right on, i have thought the same about Els.. 2011 was simply incredible.. he is now back to the same old pre 2011 which is quite honestly average hitter at best at the plate.. he is swinging just like he was in 2009 and 2010.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    Again, if he was taking PEDs in 2011, then why did he stop?

    Isn't there another explanation, that he was building momentum last year and an injury has slowed his progression this year? 

    I'm one of the first to typically accuse a player of PEDs. :) But again, not sure why he would stop. It's not like drug rules in MLB have changed since then.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    When Max brings this up it certainly makes you want to stop and wonder.  Strangely, it never occurred to me since he wasn't doing well before he got hurt in 2010---true it was a small sample but he didn't show much in the power department then or when he came back for a cameo appearance before went down for the count.   He may have started the routine after his injury riddled 2010 season.  My take on that, though, is that Ells' g ame is speed, defense, and gap power along with a decent BA and OBP.  We don't need him to hit 30 homers just as long as we have three o thers who could do it.  The Red Sox should decide whether or not to offer him a new contract this winter.  If they do and he decides to wait---TRADE HIM AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN GET A GOOD PAYBACK FOR HIM because if we wait until the summer we will be getting ten cents on the dollar since no team is going to pay big for a one or two month rental.  Frankly I hope we can sign Ellsbury because Jacoby has always been a big favorite of mine.

    Some of you old timers, circa 2007 and 2008, might remember my duels with a couple of posters here who were big Coco Crisp fans and were furious when Francona finally got his head out of his pocket and installed Ells into the lineup for the 6th game of the ALCS.  I think we can see that Ellsbury again but he has to be willing to sign with us.......and for pete's sake make this Pedroia's team by finally appointing him captain of the club.




     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    2011 wasn't just a career year, it was astonishing beyond what anyone thought he was capable of. 32 dingers was over threes times as many as his best season before 2011. 

     And this year he is right back to pre-2011--actually, a little worse even than 2008.  Did PED's get him that extra power?   


    No, according to softy it was because AGon was batting 2-3 slots behind him, and he saw more fastballs.

    softy is the resident expert on "Jake". He is never wrong.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    Fans are so paranoid.

    A player has a career year, accusations of illegal drugs are thrown around.  Congress gets involved.  Does this make the player ineligible for Cooperstown?  Should we take away his records!?!?

    These people need to find a new form of entertainment.  But they should probably avoid music.  I hear some musicians also use illegal drugs.   Once the Grammy people find out what Keith Richards has been doing, they might have to take some awards away and have the Stones removed from Cleveland...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    Imagining this convo with Scott Boras: 

    Ells: "PEDs really helped me, but now during my pre-contract year, I'm going to stop taking them." 

    Boras: "That sounds good Ells. Let's make sure your overall home run totals are much lower during your pre-contract year, that sounds excellent. Let's make sure you stay off of them for next year as well to further decrease the value of the most important contract you will ever sign."

    Ells: "That sounds good Scott, I'll get off the PEDs and stay off, even though I was never caught. I definitely want to sign a significantly lower contract due to questions about my power long term."

    Boras: "Excellent plan."



     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    If he WAS taking, then why did he stop?

    Here's one conspiracy theory:

    Why do MANY players take PEDs? According to a lot of players, to recover from injuries. What did Ellsbury have a lot of in 2010, and always took towards the higher end of the return timetable? Injuries.

    I could absolutely see him start to take a regimen of something just to "get healthy" and back for 2011, and then once completely healed give them up.

    It was more than a career year, there's only one other player who so bizzarly put up numbers like that; Canseco when he went 40/40. Brady Anderson when he hit 50 HRs may be more applicable. Rarely have players had such enormous spikes in numbers without something going on.

    If he never again even cracks 20 HRs, would you believe it then?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    After his 2010 injury, Jacoby Ellsbury retreated to an extended stay at the Athletes Performance Institute in Arizona and emerged the following season as a 32-homerun hitter.

    Ellsbury enhanced his performance by some means, but it's too easy to point the finger at PEDs.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    While I'm not saying that Jacoby didn't use PEDs,I don't believe he did.But no player should be above suspicion,especially since they only test twice a year.But maybe Ellsbury isn't fully recovered from his shoulder dislocation,which would explain his timing and lack of power.He may revert back to his 2011 form after rest and a strengthening program for it over the winter.I'm not saying that's the case,but I think it's a strong possibility.
       If you want to gossip about a player who might be using PEDs,look no further than Josh Reddick.Talk about a spike in power numbers!Playing with Boston,in a hitter freindly venue like Fenway,he had 375 official at bats with only 10 HRs.That's 1 HR every 37.5 at bats
      Out in the pitcher friendly stadium in Oakland,563 official at bats,28 HRs.That would be 1 HR in approximately every 18.1 at bats.He more than doubled his HR output in the cavernous Oakland Coliseum.That seems a little suspicious to me.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    there aren't many guys that aren't on some kind of illegal juice.  They wouldn't be playing if they weren't.  Same goes for football.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    This is where we are now. Everyone is suspect. Despite the testing , there is still plenty of it going on.  The thing I see with Ellsbury this year is that they are consistently pitching him away. Last year they were pitching him in.  He does not have opposite field power. Never did.  When he tries to pull the outside pitch , he is rolling it over for a ground ball.  I think he is better off going with the pitch and taking the singles and doubles to left.  Obviously , the money comes with the home runs. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    This is where we are now. Everyone is suspect. Despite the testing , there is still plenty of it going on.  The thing I see with Ellsbury this year is that they are consistently pitching him away. Last year they were pitching him in.  He does not have opposite field power. Never did.  When he tries to pull the outside pitch , he is rolling it over for a ground ball.  I think he is better off going with the pitch and taking the singles and doubles to left.  Obviously , the money comes with the home runs. 



    He has hit to left this year, but doesn't do it as often, especially given the outside pitches.  At Fenway you don't need a lot of power to clear the LF wall even as a lefty.  While I focused on the dingers, reality is he isn't hitting the ball at all this year.  His OBP is way down, etc. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    In 2011, Pedroia and AGon and Ortiz had outstanding years. Needless to say, Ellsbury is the antithesis of Ortiz. I'd like to see Ellsbury's 2011 in the Astros lineup.



    Ells was the leadoff hitter in 2011 and therefore didn't benefit as much from having those other guys behind him. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    "If he never again even cracks 20 HRs, would you believe it then?f"

    Yes, I would be much more inclined to believe it then. But we aren't there yet. Surely you can see why I would be skeptical Ellsbury would drop a successful PED rhythm during a key pre-contract year....

    I need a better rebuttal than "what if this is still his best year five years from now?"

    The idea he cycled off for recovery reasons may hold more weight, but wouldn't he have gone back on this year after this year's issue? 

    Also, the 'roids you take for recovery are not necessarily the stronger stuff you need to take for power, which brings me to...

    " Though it is weak, the new CBA put in a testing procedure for HGH. That started in 2012"

    Perhaps a more reasonable explanation, though I see a couple problems: 

    1. the current HGH detection procedure is weak
    2. HGH can help with speed, recovery and so on but it doesn't have the same impact on power numbers that the stronger steroids due. Otherwise we would see higher power numbers in MLB overall. 

    But yeah, I suppose Ells getting freaked out over slightly stronger testing rules could be an explanation. But if his performance is due to HGH, not the stronger stuff, he could mask that usage from MLB and I maintain in his pre-contract year he would do just that. 

    I'm not ruling out Ells taking PEDs in 2011 but still see no reason why he would stop.




     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    people had good and bad years even before steroids....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ellsbury in 2011--an anomaly or something more sinister?

    Here's my explanation for why he would have stopped in 2012.  Boras maybe called him and said something like, "I hope you  know 2011, while an absolutely fantastic season that could well get you a great contract, is also a red flag to the MLB drug testers.  I don't want to know whether you have been taking PED's, but be warned."

     
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