Ellsbury revisited

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    In Response to Re: Ellsbury revisited:
    Wow, Red Sox fan gnarling their teeth over a second rate outfielder who is off to a good start.  When he gets hurt again Red Sox fan or he doesn't live up to the hyperbole that you have bestowed upon him, I reserve the right to say I told you so.  Seems to me one could go back quite a few times in recent years to see the Red Sox fandom looking for any glimmer of hope on quite a number of players.  The most pathetic display being that of Dice K after a good start here or there.  Red Sox fan was usually ready to proclaim him a future HOFer.  And Second in that same area would be JD Drew, after a particular good day or decent stretch, Red Sox fan would be lighting up the board proclaiming his greatness.  Never mentioning the fact that the two players cost $178 Million.  We could go on and on Lugo, Scutaro, Lackey.  My money is on Ellsbury being a let down and soft and brittle.  Based on the track record, I like my chances. But don't worry Red Sox fan after 2 months of playing well, I sure Cooperstown will be calling.
    Posted by massillon8


    Is there a poster who goes by the name Red Sox Fan, or are you generalizing about all Red Sox Fans as being blind homers, and you forgot to add the (s) to make it a plural?  I'm not joking, I just can't understand your point if it's the latter.  There aren't many posters here who think Ellsbury is Ken Griffey reborn.  Most reasonable fans will give the guy a chance to prove last year was an aberration, and when he's been healthy (145 and 153 games isn't exactly shabby) he's not a bad guy to have on your team.  I am not enamoured with steals, but you have to admit he can make things happen when on the bases, such as leg out doubles and triples.   

    I'd say 2007-2009 is truer to what he is than 2010.  He is a potentially very good top of the order guy who needs to get on base more.  He is a very good base stealer, decent defensive player and improving offensive player.  What's not to like?  I don't see this pending slump that you're predicting because his BA, OBP, SLG and OPS are in line with other seasons when he's been healthy.  Maybe his power numbers are up a bit and will tail off, but the guy has a two full season track record of performing at this level, so your argument is off a bit. 

    I'd guess you either aren't a RS fan at all or you really hate Ells.       
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    In Response to Re: Ellsbury revisited:
    Wow, Red Sox fan gnarling their teeth over a second rate outfielder who is off to a good start.  When he gets hurt again Red Sox fan or he doesn't live up to the hyperbole that you have bestowed upon him, I reserve the right to say I told you so.  Seems to me one could go back quite a few times in recent years to see the Red Sox fandom looking for any glimmer of hope on quite a number of players.  The most pathetic display being that of Dice K after a good start here or there.  Red Sox fan was usually ready to proclaim him a future HOFer.  And Second in that same area would be JD Drew, after a particular good day or decent stretch, Red Sox fan would be lighting up the board proclaiming his greatness.  Never mentioning the fact that the two players cost $178 Million.  We could go on and on Lugo, Scutaro, Lackey.  My money is on Ellsbury being a let down and soft and brittle.  Based on the track record, I like my chances. But don't worry Red Sox fan after 2 months of playing well, I sure Cooperstown will be calling.
    Posted by massillon8

    You're more negative about the Sox than I am. Come be a Yankees fan with me.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    Why revisit it, it is what it is. Simply look at the career averages, and count the days until FA. Overrated comes to mind.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    I thought he was gonna be traded before FA.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    He will be. You also guaranteed that AGon would be a Padre on 2011 opening day. You are clueless.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    SoxSoldRed has always, always underrated Ellsbury.  But, to justify that position, he argues that all other Red Sox fans expected Ellsbury to be another Ted Williams or Joe Dimaggio or whoever.  

    The facts in the OP are unassailable.  Ellsbury, despite not playing more than 18 games last year, is having a heckuva year so far--easily the best of any leadoff hitter in the AL.   And he has played every single game.   

    The other thing that's a little strange about SoxSoldRed is that actually wants Ellsbury to play badly.  Nothing would cause him more chagrin than to have Ellsbury continue to play at his current level or even a little better. 

    So you have to wonder of SSR is in fact a Sox fan. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    So you have to wonder of SSR is in fact a Sox fan

    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Max, I think I have it sussed out. 

    If you're critical of Ells (or any RS player) for his poor play at any given point (yet to be seen this year BTW) then you're an average Red ox fan who gets frustrated when guys under-perform.  We all tend to be critical at times, some more than others, but deep down we usually realize that even pretty good players get stuck in a rough patch.  (See Crawford, Carl for example.)   

    If you choose blind ignorance to the fact that a) Ells had two pretty good seasons (a good sample) before getting hurt in 2010 and b)  he's pretty much on par with what he did as a full time player, which means he's performing to expectations, then clearly you're here to take the pi$$ or stir the pot. 

    You just cannot be a real Sox fan and pretend that Ellsbury is not a pretty good player.  You lose credibility when saying that a crash in production is imminent because right now he's playing as well as he ever has, maybe a bit better, and it's not unexpected given past production.  Look up the numbers critics if you don't believe it. 

    And can the pot stirrers please stop with the "overrated" crap while we're at it?  There may be a small minority of fans that think Ellsbury is a franchise-type player, but most of us realize he's a good but not great player.   
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    Let's see.....  Who should I trust to analyze Ells. & his stats in comparison to other CF's & leadoff hitters in the MLB????  SoldRed OR......  the vast majority of KNOWLEDGEABLE baseball analysts????   Hmmmmmmm?????

    Do I listen to a guy who CONDEMNED Ells. as he was ready to come back after a season devastating injury????  A guy who PROMISED us that Ells. was nothing more than an "over-hyped" guy with poor hitting skills & a sub par fielder, who would quickly implode, thus "proving" what a magnificent talent scout SoldRed truly is???

    Do we listen to the guy with an AGENDA & ego the size of Texas?  A guy SO DESPERATE to "prove" he ALONE was right about Ells???  Even in the face of top tier CF & leadoff batter stats thus far in the season by Ells?  Ignore what we are ACTUALLY seeing!?!?  A young player on a steep learning curve, who is healthy again & quickly ascending to the top tier of the MLB......

    Keep talking soldRed!!!!  You sound more & more pathetic every day!  I guess I should give you credit for perseverance.... Not many other guys would have the intestinal blockage to keep on with such a pathetic argument in the face of overwhelming empirical data!  Every time you DESPERATELY try to scrape together another argument that Ells. is a sub par CF & leadoff hitter, you reach new heights of absurdity.  :)  It's actually fun to watch a guy who prides himself on being a "non-emotional" judge of talent, continue to dig himself such a deep hole based on pure emotion & out of control pride...

    BEING WRONG is NOT a sign of weakness!!!  Refusing to admit when you are CLEARLY WRONG certainly is!  Get over it big guy & move on with your life :)

    You still have never answered my question......  Are you a Red Sox fan???

    Not that it matters!  Just curious????
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    The reality is that the hype has never ended for this overrated player. In fact, it's not about debunking the absurd comparisons to Williams or Ichiro, it's about debunking the continued hype about how he is "breaking out" every time he has a little hot streak during the last 5 seasons. He's not "breaking out", he is what he is, and that is not this destiny MLB star that people keep claiming. If he signed as a FA and looked like DiceK he'd be called an arrogant bum who was overhyped and an overrated bust.

    Ellsbury makes Mike Greenwell look like Ted Williams.

    Defense:

    Over the full career sample size (UZR), one of the weakest CF'ers in baseball
    Paper arm

    Offense:

    Career BA .291  2011 partial season BA .292

    Career OBP .346 2011 partial season OBP .360 (career average for a reason)

    Career SLG .411 2011 partial season SLG .452 

    Never has scored 100 runs in a season, despite being on some of the most potent offenses in MLB. This year would be the first, with MVP and All-Star hitters from 2 down to 5, behind him. Tip of the cap to the guys behind this baggage.

    This guy has now appeared in his 5th Red Sox season. He's weak in a position that is more about defense than offense. He's been in the peak years of his career, yet, at best, offensively, he's no more than a good slap hitter with speed. Overall, including the other side of the ball that most fans pay no attention to, he's, at best, an average overall MLB player in the prime of his career.

    The Red Sox have Kalish and others to replace this guy for cheaper and sell him high for parts they need more, including a solid young MLB RH OF'er. Even if Kalish or Reddick hit .250 and had an OBP of .320, there defense is enough of an upgrade, with a trade on Ellsbury, to make the net a better team for years to come. 

    With Crawford, if Ellsbury isn't gone by next winter, Epsteir is dumber than I thought he was, which isn't very smart. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    From FanGraphs:


    Lost in the shuffle of the Olde Towne Team’s big ticket acquisitions this winter was www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4727&position=OF">Jacoby Ellsbury, who suffered through a lost season. With a 132 wRC+ so far, which places him 18th among outfielders, he is reminding folks that his return was a pretty big deal too.

    FanGraphs' Ranking of top AL outfielders: 

    TIER 2 (anyone not named Jose Bautista)
    Carl www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1201&position=OF" target="_blank">Crawford
    www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1875&position=OF" target="_blank">Josh Hamilton
    www.fangraphs.com/players.aspx?lastname=Nelson%20Cruz" target="_blank">Nelson Cruz
    www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4727&position=OF" target="_blank">Jacoby Ellsbury
    www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4747&position=OF" target="_blank">Curtis Granderson
    www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3174&position=OF" target="_blank">Shin-Soo Choo
    Ben Zobrist
    www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1101&position=OF" target="_blank">Ichiro Suzuki
    www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6274&position=OF" target="_blank">Carlos Quentin

    Obviously FanGraphs, a respectable source, disagrees that Ells is an average player.   

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Girardi-Inept. Show Girardi-Inept's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    We Yankee fans love SoxSoldRed because he is great entertainment. That is why I come here.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    One need only look at Bellsbury being viewed as an All-Star, over Granderson, for how giddy and clueless most Red Sox fans are.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    One need only look at Bellsbury being viewed as an All-Star, over Granderson, for how giddy and clueless most Red Sox fans are.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    Of course no one here has Ellsbury as an all star over Granderson but since when have the facts ever gotten in your way. I'd like to see one single reference of anyone saying such a thing. You are so full of dog doo doo that I doubt seriously if such a reference even exists, unless it's one of your many identities doing it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    Typical from softlawsoxsoldred--he makes ridiculous stuff up and then refutes it.   The only hype I am aware of is his negative version of hype, insisting that, regardless of how well he might be hitting and playing, that he is really a lousy player. 

    Meanwhile, of course, he is dead silent on his personal favorite, J.D. Drew, whose stats he used to recite endlessly.  These days Drew's OPS is south of .700, and he has 1/2 the dingers Ellsbury has.  Me, I hope Drew turns it around because that would be good for the Sox.  He is almost the exact same age as Ortiz, and Big Papi is having a pretty good year.  He just passed Ellsbury, for example, in rbi's--he has 28 to Jake's 27.  Drew is headed toward getting that many for the season. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Ellsbury revisited

    This will be only Ellsbury's 3rd full season, remember he didn't play much of 2007 as he was called up in august and he missed almost all of 2010.  And at the young age of 27 almost all of his numbers have trended upwards over the past few seasons. 

    His power, OBP, OPS, SLG have all trended upwards.  This is excluding 2010 for OBVIOUS reasons.  There is plenty of reason to suspect that Jacoby should finish 2011 with slightly better numbers than 2009.  I say a .800 ops a .360 OBP 50 SB and 15 HR. 
     
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