Re: Ellsbury speaks about his injury last year
posted at 8/10/2011 11:43 AM EDT
In Response to Re: Ellsbury speaks about his injury last year
[QUOTE]And for the record, when Yaz moved to 1b it was for future Hall of Famer Jim Rice, not for Jim Rice at 38. When Yaz went back to left, it was because he played so well in 75 playoffs after Rice got hurt. Sox said "we'll put Jim Ed at DH"....If Ellsbury moves to LF for Johnny Damon at age 28, now I'm a little understanding of his move. He was moved for a 38-year-old guy. I'm sorry, and I know it's terrible how Cameron's Sox career was hurt by a terrible injury that he played through, but by the time he was moved to a platoon the next season, it was he who could not handle the platoon, and he hit like Mendoza. So one more time, Ellsbury...not a versatile player...Ellsbury not a future CF who already was a CF who had to move for a 38-year-old has been. I don't know who Rose moved for, but I do know if you move positions, there better be a very good reason....
Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
OK let's make sure the record is correct.
Yaz moved from LF to CF (after winning a GG) when Tony C., the future RF came up in 1964. The RF was Lee Thomas. Thomas moved to 1B the next year and Yaz and Tony C went back to their natural positions. Sure, you could say he moved for Tony C, but the fact is, based on who the OF'ers were, Yaz was the best option for CF leaving LF for Tony C and RF for Thomas. When Thomas moved out of the OF (except for spot starts), you notice Yaz was moved back to LF and Tony C moved to RF.
Yaz moved to 1B the first time in the prime of his career at age 30 in 1970, long before Rice joined the team. He played 94 G at 1B and 69 at 3B. You know who played LF that year -- Billy Conigliaro (108 games) who played all of four seasons (maybe five) in the majors. Yaz went back to LF in 1971, by the time Rice came up in 1975, Yaz was primarily a 1B in 1973 (107 G) and 1974 (84 G).
When he moved to 1B in 1970 and in 1972 and 1973, he hardly was replaced by a better player.
Ellsbury was moved because of a better defensive player. Cameron was a proven Gold Glover. Ellsbury is better than some give him credit for being in CF but he still has a ways to go become as good as Cameron was in his prime in CF.
And let's keep the record clear even more. Yaz didn't move to LF because he played so well in 1975 playoffs. In 1976, he still was the primary starting 1B (94 games). He moved back fulltime in 1977 (140 games) because the Sox got 33-year-old George Scott was seven-time Gold Glover at 1B. So of course, he was going to take over 1B and not DH over Yaz. So the Sox moved 37-year-old Yaz (same age as Cameron) back to LF where he won another GG and DH'ed 24-year-old Rice, who was being groomed -- to use your term -- as the future LF. Cameron isn't Yaz, of course, as an all-around player but from a defensive standpoint he was.
Rose is a little more trickier. He started out as a 2B. At age 26, he moved to LF to replace Deron Williams and was replaced at 2B by Tommy Helms. Then at age 27 he replaced Tommy Harper in RF and was replaced in LF by Alex Johnson. After about three seasons as the RF, winning a GG or two, he went back to LF. Cesar Geronimo took over in RF. He played LF for about three seasons before moving to 3B to rpelace Dan Driessen when George Foster was ready to take over in LF.
The point is he and Yaz moved to where they were needed for the good of the team based on who else was on the team. In nearly every case, the player who replaced them at the old position was a lesser player, but the move was made because they were needed at new positions.
So tell me. If Yaz at age 37 could go back out to LF full time and win a Gold Glove, replacing a 24-year-old, why is it such big deal that Cameron at age 37, coming off a strong year (149 GP), was going to come over and start in CF and move the younger guy for a short term.
The more I looked, Yaz is better example than I first thought. The examples I used were to show young guys moved out of their original position all the time for various reasons, not necessarily because they were similar to Cameron/Ellsbury situation. The one thing they had in common was that the moves were made because the team (FO/manager) felt it was best lineup for the team. If Hall of Famers can be moved around for inferiour players, sometimes older, sometimes younger, why can't Ellsbury?
And like I said, I would have kept Ellsbury in CF. I just don't think it was a big deal for them to move him.