Ellsbury vs Granderson

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]

    I couldn't disagree more. Iglesias at this point last year was much more of a finish product but the Sox brought in Drew. Why wouldn't they take the same approach with a player who is clearly less developed?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]

    I couldn't disagree more. Iglesias at this point last year was much more of a finish product but the Sox brought in Drew. Why wouldn't they take the same approach with a player who is clearly less developed?

    [/QUOTE]

    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nava is a much better hitter from the left side. I don't see him platooning with Carp where  he would hit strictly right handed. As for Cecchini, he has to produce in AAA before he can be considered for Boston.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    There will be no Carp / Nava platoon at 1B.  That position does still reamin the most interesting one this off-season.  While the Fielder/Kinsler blockbuster does increase the likelihood of Napoli returning, I am still not sold he will.

     

    That deal also opens up the possibility of Mitch Moreland being available, and his name might enter intio the mix.  Monstrous power when he makes contact, but really he is another Mike Carp-type role player, best suited to limited action, and should be kept out of the OF as much as possible.  Hopefully the Sox ignore any offers from Texas based around Mitch Moreland...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't bring up this comparison but I'm not going to let it stand without commenting on it.

    Whether or not Bogarts is a once in a generation player remains to be seen.  The same thing can be said about Hanley, and that's two players like that from just the same team.  In fact it can be said that the Sox had TWO of these players on the same team at the same time.  BOgaarts is a very good player but to call him a once in a generation player is a bit of a stretch.

    Yes, Iglesias hit .118 in September, but after hitting a totally unsustainable ~.500 prior to that, and finished the year with a .303 BA.   It was SO PREDICTABLE that some would use that month to "prove" that Iglesias can't hit.  That's why small sample sizes of one month don't mean much.

    When Iggy went to Detriot it was ostensibly to fill a spot until Peralta came back from suspension.  Instead when Peralta came back he was moved to LF.  The cry then was that Peralta would still be the starting SS in 2014, and instead the Tigers let Peralta go to FA rather than try to sign him. Someone out there likes Iggy, and it's people who aren't trying to run Iggy down to make Bogarts look better.

    I agree that Bogarts may stick at SS but that doesn't mean he's a better player than Iglesias.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't bring up this comparison but I'm not going to let it stand without commenting on it.

    Whether or not Bogarts is a once in a generation player remains to be seen.  The same thing can be said about Hanley, and that's two players like that from just the same team.  In fact it can be said that the Sox had TWO of these players on the same team at the same time.  BOgaarts is a very good player but to call him a once in a generation player is a bit of a stretch.

    Yes, Iglesias hit .118 in September, but after hitting a totally unsustainable ~.500 prior to that, and finished the year with a .303 BA.   It was SO PREDICTABLE that some would use that month to "prove" that Iglesias can't hit.  That's why small sample sizes of one month don't mean much.

    When Iggy went to Detriot it was ostensibly to fill a spot until Peralta came back from suspension.  Instead when Peralta came back he was moved to LF.  The cry then was that Peralta would still be the starting SS in 2014, and instead the Tigers let Peralta go to FA rather than try to sign him. Someone out there likes Iggy, and it's people who aren't trying to run Iggy down to make Bogarts look better.

    I agree that Bogarts may stick at SS but that doesn't mean he's a better player than Iglesias.  

    [/QUOTE]

    S5, your feelings for Iglesias are well documented, and I appreciate your position, but you may be confused with my post.  I was talking about the Iglesias who hit .118 in September of 2012 and showed little indication he was going to hit well enough during his minor league career to be anything more than a utility player. What Iglesias did this season is irrelevant, since we were talking about "going into 2013."  There was no way they were going to go into 2013 with Iglesias as the only viable option.  

    As far as Ramirez goes, there were MANY concerns about his make up and they were obviously justified.  Do some homework on Bogaerts.  Bogaerts is as "can't miss" as it gets and a big reason is because of his make up and work ethic are off the charts, while his talent is obvious.  One of the greatest compliments a young player can get is when someone in the game says, "Every once in a while you see a young player come in and you just "know" he's going to be great just by the way he carries himself."  Bogaerts is one of those players.  I asked about him last winter and the responses were all, "He IS (not might) going to be something special."

    Obviously he could get injured or completely regress, but from everything I've seen & heard, this kid is not just going to be "good," but he's going to be a "star" for years to come.  Again, there are very few "sure things" in baseball, but enough people who's opinions I respect say he is going to be great.  

    The Sox obviously had concerns about Iglesias that we are unaware of, and the guy we got for him helped win a World Series (not going to harp on Iglesias' crucial errors) which is the ultimate goal.  I wish Iglesias well, but I have a feeling Bogaerts is going to be making fans say "Jose who," sooner rather than later...

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nava is a much better hitter from the left side. I don't see him platooning with Carp where  he would hit strictly right handed. As for Cecchini, he has to produce in AAA before he can be considered for Boston.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've seen him in Portland granted it's not AAA--the guy can hit--after you watch him maybe you will agree he will remind you of a younger version of Wade Boggs. When he gets up here to stay he will be the second coming of Pete Runnels who won two batting crowns in 1960 and '62. I think you'll like him dgale.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't bring up this comparison but I'm not going to let it stand without commenting on it.

    Whether or not Bogarts is a once in a generation player remains to be seen.  The same thing can be said about Hanley, and that's two players like that from just the same team.  In fact it can be said that the Sox had TWO of these players on the same team at the same time.  BOgaarts is a very good player but to call him a once in a generation player is a bit of a stretch.

    Yes, Iglesias hit .118 in September, but after hitting a totally unsustainable ~.500 prior to that, and finished the year with a .303 BA.   It was SO PREDICTABLE that some would use that month to "prove" that Iglesias can't hit.  That's why small sample sizes of one month don't mean much.

    When Iggy went to Detriot it was ostensibly to fill a spot until Peralta came back from suspension.  Instead when Peralta came back he was moved to LF.  The cry then was that Peralta would still be the starting SS in 2014, and instead the Tigers let Peralta go to FA rather than try to sign him. Someone out there likes Iggy, and it's people who aren't trying to run Iggy down to make Bogarts look better.

    I agree that Bogarts may stick at SS but that doesn't mean he's a better player than Iglesias.  

    [/QUOTE]

    S5, your feelings for Iglesias are well documented, and I appreciate your position, but you may be confused with my post.  I was talking about the Iglesias who hit .118 in September of 2012 and showed little indication he was going to hit well enough during his minor league career to be anything more than a utility player. What Iglesias did this season is irrelevant, since we were talking about "going into 2013."  There was no way they were going to go into 2013 with Iglesias as the only viable option.  

    As far as Ramirez goes, there were MANY concerns about his make up and they were obviously justified.  Do some homework on Bogaerts.  Bogaerts is as "can't miss" as it gets and a big reason is because of his make up and work ethic are off the charts, while his talent is obvious.  One of the greatest compliments a young player can get is when someone in the game says, "Every once in a while you see a young player come in and you just "know" he's going to be great just by the way he carries himself."  Bogaerts is one of those players.  I asked about him last winter and the responses were all, "He IS (not might) going to be something special."

    Obviously he could get injured or completely regress, but from everything I've seen & heard, this kid is not just going to be "good," but he's going to be a "star" for years to come.  Again, there are very few "sure things" in baseball, but enough people who's opinions I respect say he is going to be great.  

    The Sox obviously had concerns about Iglesias that we are unaware of, and the guy we got for him helped win a World Series (not going to harp on Iglesias' crucial errors) which is the ultimate goal.  I wish Iglesias well, but I have a feeling Bogaerts is going to be making fans say "Jose who," sooner rather than later...

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Don't get me wrong - I've resigned myself to the fact that Iggy is out of town for good and I'll live with it.  The post I was responding to felt to me like it was more of the time-honored tradition in Boston of kicking a guy after he's left town.  I'll even admit that possibly my own predispostion toward Iggy made me (maybe) a bit hypersensitive to it.

    I think they're both going to be outstanding players but they'll bring different things to their team.  Iggy will bring defense that Bogarts can only dream of and Bogarts will bring that same kind of offensive power that Iggy will never match.  The FO has decided to go with the offensive prowess and while that's not my cup o' tea I understand where they're coming from. 

    Bogarts is going to be a fine player and it's not necessary to run Iggy down to make it look that way. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't bring up this comparison but I'm not going to let it stand without commenting on it.

    Whether or not Bogarts is a once in a generation player remains to be seen.  The same thing can be said about Hanley, and that's two players like that from just the same team.  In fact it can be said that the Sox had TWO of these players on the same team at the same time.  BOgaarts is a very good player but to call him a once in a generation player is a bit of a stretch.

    Yes, Iglesias hit .118 in September, but after hitting a totally unsustainable ~.500 prior to that, and finished the year with a .303 BA.   It was SO PREDICTABLE that some would use that month to "prove" that Iglesias can't hit.  That's why small sample sizes of one month don't mean much.

    When Iggy went to Detriot it was ostensibly to fill a spot until Peralta came back from suspension.  Instead when Peralta came back he was moved to LF.  The cry then was that Peralta would still be the starting SS in 2014, and instead the Tigers let Peralta go to FA rather than try to sign him. Someone out there likes Iggy, and it's people who aren't trying to run Iggy down to make Bogarts look better.

    I agree that Bogarts may stick at SS but that doesn't mean he's a better player than Iglesias.  

    [/QUOTE]

    S5, your feelings for Iglesias are well documented, and I appreciate your position, but you may be confused with my post.  I was talking about the Iglesias who hit .118 in September of 2012 and showed little indication he was going to hit well enough during his minor league career to be anything more than a utility player. What Iglesias did this season is irrelevant, since we were talking about "going into 2013."  There was no way they were going to go into 2013 with Iglesias as the only viable option.  

    As far as Ramirez goes, there were MANY concerns about his make up and they were obviously justified.  Do some homework on Bogaerts.  Bogaerts is as "can't miss" as it gets and a big reason is because of his make up and work ethic are off the charts, while his talent is obvious.  One of the greatest compliments a young player can get is when someone in the game says, "Every once in a while you see a young player come in and you just "know" he's going to be great just by the way he carries himself."  Bogaerts is one of those players.  I asked about him last winter and the responses were all, "He IS (not might) going to be something special."

    Obviously he could get injured or completely regress, but from everything I've seen & heard, this kid is not just going to be "good," but he's going to be a "star" for years to come.  Again, there are very few "sure things" in baseball, but enough people who's opinions I respect say he is going to be great.  

    The Sox obviously had concerns about Iglesias that we are unaware of, and the guy we got for him helped win a World Series (not going to harp on Iglesias' crucial errors) which is the ultimate goal.  I wish Iglesias well, but I have a feeling Bogaerts is going to be making fans say "Jose who," sooner rather than later...

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Don't get me wrong - I've resigned myself to the fact that Iggy is out of town for good and I'll live with it.  The post I was responding to felt to me like it was more of the time-honored tradition in Boston of kicking a guy after he's left town.  I'll even admit that possibly my own predispostion toward Iggy made me (maybe) a bit hypersensitive to it.

    I think they're both going to be outstanding players but they'll bring different things to their team.  Iggy will bring defense that Bogarts can only dream of and Bogarts will bring that same kind of offensive power that Iggy will never match.  The FO has decided to go with the offensive prowess and while that's not my cup o' tea I understand where they're coming from. 

    Bogarts is going to be a fine player and it's not necessary to run Iggy down to make it look that way. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Can you please explain how "I ran Iggy down?!"  I gave some possible reasons as to why he is no longer here.  I had nothing against Iggy, but I did hear there were concerns about his make up and whether or not he would ever hit enough to play every day.  I value defense as much as anyone, but a great defensive SS isn't the "key" element to winning a World Series. Otherwise, Omar Vizquel, Mark Belanger & Ozzie Smith would probably have more than a combined 2 championships in over 55 years of playing.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to jasko2248's comment:



    Can you please explain how "I ran Iggy down?!"  I gave some possible reasons as to why he is no longer here.  I had nothing against Iggy, but I did hear there were concerns about his make up and whether or not he would ever hit enough to play every day.  I value defense as much as anyone, but a great defensive SS isn't the "key" element to winning a World Series. Otherwise, Omar Vizquel, Mark Belanger & Ozzie Smith would probably have more than a combined 2 championships in over 55 years of playing.



    Sure.  What you did is called "cherry picking". 

    For every derogatory comment you hear about Iglesias there's another positive one.  I've heard people in baseball say that Detroit now has their SS for the forseeable future and I've heard baseball people say that Iggy also is a "can't miss" player.  You spoke of his .118 [2012] September without mentioning that he hit .303 [in 2013].  Cherry picking.

    You took the negatives and used them to run Iggy down and to build the case that Bogarts should be here and Iggy shouldn't.   

    Other than pitching, there is no "key element" to winning a WS.  And sometimes even pitching doesn't get it done.  (see 2013 with the staffs of Detroit and St. Louis).  It can be done with or without the MVP, the Cy Young winner, The HR leader, the BA leader, the Rookie of the year, a great SS, CF, or any other position.  We know that because it's been done - with and without.  However, the more of these players you can assemble on one team the better your chances are. 

     

    Edited with brackets.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to jasko2248's comment:


      I value defense as much as anyone, but a great defensive SS isn't the "key" element to winning a World Series. Otherwise, Omar Vizquel, Mark Belanger & Ozzie Smith would probably have more than a combined 2 championships in over 55 years of playing.




     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    Ok, let's try this one more time.  I mentioned that Iglesias hit .118 in September of the year two thousand TWELVE, because it was relevant to my point.  The discussion was based on "entering the 2013 season," so the fact that he hit .313 this year is irrelevant.  I'm not sure if I can explain it any better than that.  

    By the way, there isn't an operations guy in baseball who would ever consider trading Bogaerts for Iglesias, and again, I appreciate your fondness for him, but the all-around "talent" levels aren't even comparable.  Bogaerts is arguably the best prospect in the game with a ceiling of superstar, while Iglesias is nothing close to that, and never will be.  As I mentioned, I have nothing against Iglesias, but I understand why the Sox likely thought they were selling high on him and felt that they had a lot of depth at SS in the system where he was expendable.  I'm glad Detroit has their SS for the "foreseeable future," but I'm even happier that the Sox won a World Series.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]

    I couldn't disagree more. Iglesias at this point last year was much more of a finish product but the Sox brought in Drew. Why wouldn't they take the same approach with a player who is clearly less developed?

    [/QUOTE]

    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I was refering to Bradley.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nava is a much better hitter from the left side. I don't see him platooning with Carp where  he would hit strictly right handed. As for Cecchini, he has to produce in AAA before he can be considered for Boston.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've seen him in Portland granted it's not AAA--the guy can hit--after you watch him maybe you will agree he will remind you of a younger version of Wade Boggs. When he gets up here to stay he will be the second coming of Pete Runnels who won two batting crowns in 1960 and '62. I think you'll like him dgale.

    [/QUOTE]

    Runnels was traded today 51 years ago for Ramon Meijia.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    Nava is a much better hitter from the left side. I don't see him platooning with Carp where  he would hit strictly right handed. As for Cecchini, he has to produce in AAA before he can be considered for Boston.

    If Carp turns out to hit lefties and righties well, he could play 1B vs LHPs and LF vs RHPs as Nava moves to RF and Victorino to CF, but I doubt this happenes, as Gomes would be squeezed out of his role.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Unless there is a true change in philosophy:

    The Sox will not be held hostage and pay what Ells/Boras are looking for unless thay can't get a long term deal---he may come back to Boston for one year and $15.

    I believe BenC sees JBJ as the guy in CF with Vic as the backup plan. I hope Rajai is the #4 OF'der.

    At 3 B.--I think WMB starts there with Xander at SS. If WMB fails don't be surprised to see Cecchini at 3 B by mid season. Unless Xander is a total disappointment he stays at SS all season.

    At 1 B-----I think we see a platoon of Carp/ Nana.

    [/QUOTE]

    I couldn't disagree more. Iglesias at this point last year was much more of a finish product but the Sox brought in Drew. Why wouldn't they take the same approach with a player who is clearly less developed?

    [/QUOTE]

    I would say that that the biggest difference between Bogaerts & Iglesias is that Boegaerts is a once in a generation "franchise type player" with exceptional make up, while Iglesias is a guy who might be a human highlight film defensively, but there have been concerns about his make up and there is more than one scouting report out there that said, "he loses concentration at times and will butcher a routine play."  Throw in the fact that Boegarts has already started for a World Championship team and looked very comfortable against great pitching, especially for a kid who had just turned 21, while Iglesias hit .118 in 25 games last September.  There are still questions about Bogaerts being ready defensively, but I wouldn't bet against him sticking at SS. 

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I was refering to Bradley.

    [/QUOTE]

    Gotcha...Although I think I would be more comfortable going into 2014 with Bradley (depending on what other moves are made), than I would have been with Iglesias going into 2013.  Both plus defenders, but at similar points in their careers, I would have said Bradley would be a much better hitter.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    Can you please explain how "I ran Iggy down?!"  I gave some possible reasons as to why he is no longer here.  I had nothing against Iggy, but I did hear there were concerns about his make up and whether or not he would ever hit enough to play every day.  I value defense as much as anyone, but a great defensive SS isn't the "key" element to winning a World Series. Otherwise, Omar Vizquel, Mark Belanger & Ozzie Smith would probably have more than a combined 2 championships in over 55 years of playing.

     

    SS defense is a "key element" to winning a World Series, but teams have won without several key elements here and there over time.  Teams have won with bad defensive SSs in the past, but it certainly helps to have a great one.

    Our WS ring this year was won, in part, by plus defense by Drew.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can you please explain how "I ran Iggy down?!"  I gave some possible reasons as to why he is no longer here.  I had nothing against Iggy, but I did hear there were concerns about his make up and whether or not he would ever hit enough to play every day.  I value defense as much as anyone, but a great defensive SS isn't the "key" element to winning a World Series. Otherwise, Omar Vizquel, Mark Belanger & Ozzie Smith would probably have more than a combined 2 championships in over 55 years of playing.

     

    SS defense is a "key element" to winning a World Series, but teams have won without several key elements here and there over time.  Teams have won with bad defensive SSs in the past, but it certainly helps to have a great one.

    Our WS ring this year was won, in part, by plus defense by Drew.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree completely, Moon, that SS defense is "a" key element to a good team, but I meant that it wasn't "the" key element.  I raved about Drew's defense on here plenty of times last off season after listening to someone who covered his entire career talk about him.  

    Supposedly, Julio Lugo had better "range" than Alex Gonzalez based on the stats, but the two weren't comparable in my opinion. Give me a guy who almost never butchers the routine play over the flashy guy who may do just that sometimes.  I know Jeter gets killed "sabermetrically," but I remember that he made some terrific plays in keys spots, while never really making the costly error in a big spot...There's something to be said for that.  Whether it's a lack of concentration or maybe just a player trying to do too much (Iglesias?), I'll take the "steady" guy every time...

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    If you gave Dombrowski the choice Iggy or Xander who would he choose...and the answer is ?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you gave Dombrowski the choice Iggy or Xander who would he choose...and the answer is ?

    [/QUOTE]

    This is like asking Dave Dombrowski if he would rather have Mike Trout or Mark Trumbo...There isn't an executive in baseball who wouldn't choose Bogaerts while taking less than 3 seconds to decide...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    I hope both of these kids have great careers, but to say "Iglesias was more of a finished product" going into last season as Bogaerts is going into this season is a stretch.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I was refering to Bradley.

    I don't see it.  Iglesias was completely overmatched in 2012.  He had a career .135/.210/.203/.416 with a 18/4 K/W.  

    Bradley has a .189/.280/..337/.617 with a 31/10 K/W.  And had a .695 after his return.

    In AAA in 2012, Iggy had a .624.  In AAA in 2013, Bradley had a .842.

    I like Iggy, but don't see the numbers as close.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Five points: 1- Ellsbury is better than Granderson.  2- Ellsbury is better than Davis. 3- Bradley is going to be a very good MLB player. 4- There is no reason that Ellsbury and Bradley cannot play in the same outfield. 5- Please stop worrying about the money. It is not your money. None of these guys are worth the money they are being paid, and there are always risks involved. But this is big business. Not some small market, small time chumps. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's not my money, but if it is spent badly, I do get penalized by it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We should not be looking to downgrade at any position, least of all centerfield. It doesn't take much to go from first to fourth in the A.L. East. The goal has to be to keep getting better, not putting less of a team out there and hoping for the best.

    [/QUOTE]


    Right you are DG---and the Red Sox have been notorious for doing such dumb things in the recent past with disastrous results.  For a few million dollars more they pis@ed away a chance to get Mark Teixiera in the fall of 2008 and wound up signing a much inferior Rocco Baldelli instead.....and that was their big signing for that winter.  We also let a 36 homer, 119 RBI Jason Bay walk and replaced him with a totally over the hill Mike Cameron who was a flop with us and was out of baseball less than two years later.  And then there was the gem of letting Johnny Damon walk and replacing him with Coco Crisp, who though a very good defensive outfielder, was a miserable offensive player for us for three long years.  No, we should never replace a good player with an inferior one because every time we've done that we haven't won anything....not a division, not an ALC and certainly not a WS.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury vs Granderson

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We should not be looking to downgrade at any position, least of all centerfield. It doesn't take much to go from first to fourth in the A.L. East. The goal has to be to keep getting better, not putting less of a team out there and hoping for the best.




    Right you are DG---and the Red Sox have been notorious for doing such dumb things in the recent past with disastrous results.  For a few million dollars more they pis@ed away a chance to get Mark Teixiera in the fall of 2008 and wound up signing a much inferior Rocco Baldelli instead.....and that was their big signing for that winter.  We also let a 36 homer, 119 RBI Jason Bay walk and replaced him with a totally over the hill Mike Cameron who was a flop with us and was out of baseball less than two years later.  And then there was the gem of letting Johnny Damon walk and replacing him with Coco Crisp, who though a very good defensive outfielder, was a miserable offensive player for us for three long years.  No, we should never replace a good player with an inferior one because every time we've done that we haven't won anything....not a division, not an ALC and certainly not a WS.

    [/QUOTE]
    Mark Texeira never had any intention of signing with Boston, his wife's family was from New Jersey & she made it clear she wanted to be in New York City, but that's not the main reason he didn't sign with Boston.  Larry Lucchino & Theo Epstein went to Texeira's house in Texas for dinner. Lucchino had a "take it or leave it" attitude with their offer and Texeira was so turned off by him that he decided right then & there that he wouldn't sign with Boston.  Theo was furious with Lucchino, so no, it had nothing to do with money.  Besides, who would want that contract now?!

    Jason Bay has been horrible since he left Boston, so how can you say letting him go was a mistake? 

    Johnny Damon signed a 4 year deal with the Yankees.  By the end of year one of that deal the Yankees realized he could no longer play center, so they began rotating him between left and DH during the year 2 season.  Since the Sox had their 2 best hitters in left & DH in Ramirez & Ortiz, where was Johnny Damon going to play? Coco Crisp had arguably the best defensive season I've seen in centerfield and he was a key player during a World Championship season.  Jacoby Ellsbury played a big role as a centerfielder as well.  Johnny Damon made sense for the Yankees, but the Sox were smart not to go 4 years with him...

     

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