Ellsbury

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to antibody's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

     




    The morale will continue until the beatings improve.

     

     



    I feel better already.

     



    Indeed. Much like The Fly was "getting better" as his unnatural transformation gained momentum. The long arm of the mods has silenced us all. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to stan17's comment:

    Pulled for a hurt heel.



    It seems Ells, who has "more overall talent" may be headed for a Grady Sizemore career.  Grady had a ton of power and a great glove but absolutely no plate disciple and his body just kept crumbling from year to year.  I would love Ells to have a great season similar to 2011 and get re-signed long term if the price is right, then move to LF in favor of Bradley.

    I say we let Ells walk even with a huge 2013, or trade him before the end of the year if we fall out of contension.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to stan17's comment:

     

    Pulled for a hurt heel.

     



    It seems Ells, who has "more overall talent" may be headed for a Grady Sizemore career.  Grady had a ton of power and a great glove but absolutely no plate disciple and his body just kept crumbling from year to year.  I would love Ells to have a great season similar to 2011 and get re-signed long term if the price is right, then move to LF in favor of Bradley.

     

    I say we let Ells walk even with a huge 2013, or trade him before the end of the year if we fall out of contension.



    You may be right. He has seemed to be very fragile. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    The window to trade Ellsbury with the attached draft comp pick is rapidly closing. I seriously doubt his value without that pick and a few less months of service will be higher this trade deadline.

    Forget about "selling low"; the fact is, Jacoby & the comp pick will net us something very good- something that will last a lot longer than just 2013.

    Making room for JBJ is just one added reason this makes sense. Playing JBJ (the better CF'er) in LF is just plain nonsense. Moving Ellsbury there is OK, but the value we can get in return outweighs his 1 year value there.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    The Sox would be wise to offer Ells a fair contract right now at about 15M for 5 years.  Take it or leave it.  Ells is 1 injury away from blowing a big contract year.  Make him the offer, & see if he bites.  Nothing to lose.

     



    i doubt he would go for it but who knows. it's definitely cheaper than what he would get as a FA if he were healthy. That would be a steal if we could sign him for that.

     



    You all are a lot smarter than I am but to offer Ells $15 M a year for 5 years--I honestly believe I would be affraid he would take it. What can Ells do that JBJ can't do starting in 2014? for $500,000 for the next several years? 

    Do't get me wrong--Ells is a good player but if Bourn had a hard time finding a team to take him--Ells may have a hard time selling his services. If you said you were affraid the Yankees would make him that offer--that might be valid. My suggestion--find out from Boras where he would like to play for the rest of his career and try to work out a deal to that team--NOW.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    I dont think Id offer Ells 15M per over 5 years. I just dont trust that he wont get hurt again and weve all seen how he takes his good ol' time coming back.

    That, and JBJ is the CF of the future without question.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    In response to stan17's comment:

     

    Pulled for a hurt heel.

     




    I see this as writing on the wall - or Monstah - that the door is now open for Jackie and shutting for Els.  Els ... I hate to admit ... seems like a frail player.  He has talent out the yazoo, but his yazoo is not healthy very often.

     

     



    Yeah, but I never thought it had to be either/or. I'd love to have both for the next few years.

     



    In the best world, my friend, I'd agree ... the two ranging in the OF together has some marvelous possibilities.  I'm just thinking, finally, that Els is maybe the kind of person who finds ways not to play ... I hate to think that way, but he has been on the DL an awful lot.  I love the game he gave us in the '07 playoffs and that marvelous year that spoke of superb qualitiy...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    Next June, when we are looking at the prospect we chose with the 33rd or 38th pick in the draft as comp for losing Ellsbury, many here will be saying, "Is that all we got for him? We could/should have done better."

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Next June, when we are looking at the prospect we chose with the 33rd or 38th pick in the draft as comp for losing Ellsbury, many here will be saying, "Is that all we got for him? We could/should have done better."




    Refresh my memory. Where did we pick Bradley Jr.?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    40th, now refresh mine...

    Matt Murton

    Abe Alvarez

    Andrew Dobies

    Craig Hansen

    Jason Place

    Kris Johnson

    Caleb Clay

    Nick Hagadone

    Ryan Dent

    Bryan Price

    Derrick Gibson

    Reymond Fuentes (28th)

    Kolbrin Vitek (20th)

     

    Look, I'm not saying the 40th pick can't turn into something useful or even great; it has high value, but that value is just as high in trade value. Ellsbury + that comp pick value should net us a player that is better than that comp pick, and has already proven or shwn his stuff to some extent, unlike a college or HS draftee in that range of the draft.

     

     

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    Personally , I don't think that Ellsbury will ever be able to match his 2011 season. However , I do not get the urgency to trade him now, unless you are giving up on this season. I would let things play out and , if he leaves as a free agent , take the draft pick. You may get someone good. Meanwhile , let's try to win this year. If you traded him now , would you get someone who would help us win this year more than Ellsbury would ?  I doubt it.  Can you argue that Ellsbury , Bradley and Victorino do not give us our best outfield right now?   

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    40th, now refresh mine...

    Matt Murton

    Abe Alvarez

    Andrew Dobies

    Craig Hansen

    Jason Place

    Kris Johnson

    Caleb Clay

    Nick Hagadone

    Ryan Dent

    Bryan Price

    Derrick Gibson

    Reymond Fuentes (28th)

    Kolbrin Vitek (20th)

     

    Look, I'm not saying the 40th pick can't turn into something useful or even great; it has high value, but that value is just as high in trade value. Ellsbury + that comp pick value should net us a player that is better than that comp pick, and has already proven or shwn his stuff to some extent, unlike a college or HS draftee in that range of the draft.

     

     

     

     




    You're right that drafting baseball players is kind of like shooting craps, but really analyzing any prospect outside of the top 3 or 4 is too. And whatever we got for Ellsbury in a trade, even with the compensation attached is almost certain not to be a top 3 or 4 prospect. So, why not keep him for the year and if he's healthy enjoy watching one of the top CF in the game play in the home whites, and then hope to get lucky in the draft? We may even be able to get him back on a 3 or 4 year deal and get to see him and JBJ playing side by side in left and center fields.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    40th, now refresh mine...

    Matt Murton

    Abe Alvarez

    Andrew Dobies

    Craig Hansen

    Jason Place

    Kris Johnson

    Caleb Clay

    Nick Hagadone

    Ryan Dent

    Bryan Price

    Derrick Gibson

    Reymond Fuentes (28th)

    Kolbrin Vitek (20th)

     

    Look, I'm not saying the 40th pick can't turn into something useful or even great; it has high value, but that value is just as high in trade value. Ellsbury + that comp pick value should net us a player that is better than that comp pick, and has already proven or shwn his stuff to some extent, unlike a college or HS draftee in that range of the draft.

     

     

     

     

     




    You're right that drafting baseball players is kind of like shooting craps, but really analyzing any prospect outside of the top 3 or 4 is too. And whatever we got for Ellsbury in a trade, even with the compensation attached is almost certain not to be a top 3 or 4 prospect. So, why not keep him for the year and if he's healthy enjoy watching one of the top CF in the game play in the home whites, and then hope to get lucky in the draft? We may even be able to get him back on a 3 or 4 year deal and get to see him and JBJ playing side by side in left and center fields.

     



    Trading for a prospect that has played a year or two is usually a surer bet than a draftee beyong the top 3-4 picks.

    Before this spring training, I wouldn't have been surprised to see us get a player rated similar to JBJ in a trade of Ellsbury and the comp pick.

    Cleveland got Bauer for Choo. Baseball America had Bauer at #14 and Bradley at #31.

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

    [/QUOTE]

    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to mef429's comment:

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?



    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

    [/QUOTE]

    But, would you trade Ellsbury right now for a duplicate of JBJ as he was viewed before ST 2013?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

     



    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What would you sign him for and for how long?

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.

     

    Also, would Ells agree to a contract with the Sox knowing he won't be in CF?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

     



    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

     



    What would you sign him for and for how long?

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think he'll get a 6 year deal, and I'm having a hard time imagining him getting 5. I think the nature of baseball contracts is changing as a result of the Red Sox and Yankees becoming more conservative fiscally. I think Ellsbury will likely end up signing for 4 years and may even have to settle for 3 given his health history.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    But, would you trade Ellsbury right now for a duplicate of JBJ as he was viewed before ST 2013?


    not if i planned on keeping him when he hit FA. so no.


    What would you sign him for and for how long?

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.

     

    Also, would Ells agree to a contract with the Sox knowing he won't be in CF?


    i would try to keep it at 5 years, but the annual salary would probably depend on his production and health. i'd do anywhere from 17-22 Per. Definitely not higher or longer than that even if he replicates 2011 numbers.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

     



    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

     

     



    What would you sign him for and for how long?

     

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.




    I don't think he'll get a 6 year deal, and I'm having a hard time imagining him getting 5. I think the nature of baseball contracts is changing as a result of the Red Sox and Yankees becoming more conservative fiscally. I think Ellsbury will likely end up signing for 4 years and may even have to settle for 3 given his health history.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, maybe 4-5 years, assuming a healthy and decent 2013 season.

    He'll likely get $$75M/5 or $62M/4. What's your offer?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    As I've said before, I wonder what we might have had for Ellsbury after the 2011 season. A trade at that time would have been a bold plan to consider if the writing was already on the wall that he was going to test free agency no matter what. I know it never, ever would have happened, but it's fun to imagine what the return might have been.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    I really don't think a team will give Ellsbury 20+ million if the duration of the contract is long.  3-4 years ago I'd say yes, and there would be multiple teams looking to do so.

    Ellsbury will have to have a career year, but even then teams are still going to be pushed back by his health.

    I think he either settles for less years or less AAV.  I can see a 3/75, or a 7/125 with possibly a John Lackey clause.

    Oh well.  I like Ellsbury and always will defend him but he's gone one way or another (most likely)  He should either net a top prospect, or a high draft pick. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

     



    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

     

     



    What would you sign him for and for how long?

     

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.

     




    I don't think he'll get a 6 year deal, and I'm having a hard time imagining him getting 5. I think the nature of baseball contracts is changing as a result of the Red Sox and Yankees becoming more conservative fiscally. I think Ellsbury will likely end up signing for 4 years and may even have to settle for 3 given his health history.

     



    OK, maybe 4-5 years, assuming a healthy and decent 2013 season.

    He'll likely get $$75M/5 or $62M/4. What's your offer?

    [/QUOTE]

    85/5 and call it a night.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    Would you have traded Ellsbury (and the pick) for another Bradley?

     



    i would rather resign Ells and have 1 of each.

     

     



    What would you sign him for and for how long?

     

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.

     




    I don't think he'll get a 6 year deal, and I'm having a hard time imagining him getting 5. I think the nature of baseball contracts is changing as a result of the Red Sox and Yankees becoming more conservative fiscally. I think Ellsbury will likely end up signing for 4 years and may even have to settle for 3 given his health history.

     



    OK, maybe 4-5 years, assuming a healthy and decent 2013 season.

    He'll likely get $$75M/5 or $62M/4. What's your offer?

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd go 62/4 and be very comfortable with that. I wouldn't go to 5 years. You know my philosophy on long contracts. :-)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to mef429's comment:

    But, would you trade Ellsbury right now for a duplicate of JBJ as he was viewed before ST 2013?


    not if i planned on keeping him when he hit FA. so no.


    What would you sign him for and for how long?

    I'd offer $39M/3 and then watch him walk to a team that pays him $90M/6 if he has a decent year.

     

    Also, would Ells agree to a contract with the Sox knowing he won't be in CF?


    i would try to keep it at 5 years, but the annual salary would probably depend on his production and health. i'd do anywhere from 17-22 Per. Definitely not higher or longer than that even if he replicates 2011 numbers.



    Wow! At least Crawford had a half a dozen decent years before he got $20M/yr.

     
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