Ellsbury

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    I'd love to see them re-sign Ellsbury but he will go on the market and someone will over pay for him.   

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to The4040club's comment:

    In response to stan17's comment:

     

    I'd love to see them re-sign Ellsbury but he will go on the market and someone will over pay for him.   

     




    Probably goes to seattle but one can never rule out the yankees. 

     



    I cant not foresee that the Yankees is willing to overpay Ellsbury if they are going to over pay Cano anyway.  Yankees have enuff of overpaying everyone.  They are now stuck with A-Rod, Texeria, Jeter, and Sabathia.  

    Only way they will over pay Ellsbury if Cano walks away from the organization!!

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    I always get a kick when I see compare Ells AA and AAA numbers to JBJ. Not close.

    If he didn't have those 2 fluke injuries, people would be screaming to resign him.



    The AA and AAA numbers are nearly identical with one a little better in AA and the other in AAA.

    What it all means is up for debate.

    To me, it's not about the injuries at all, and I'm not screaming to sign any of this year's FAs at $20M+ and 5+ years.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    Not really, the first injury never would have happened if boy genius theo did not have jacoby playing out of position. 

    Cameron and JBJ are both better CF'ers on defense.

    It's not Theo's fault Ellsbury never calls off other players and collides or has near collisions way too many times.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    Ellsbury was certainly the MVP of the divisional series.  He earned every penny of this year's salary in those 18 or 19 ab's.  JH & co. should pay him extra for every hit he gets in the ALCS.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back, but even $18M x 5 or more years is too high for me.

    There are so many positive things he brings to the game (and our team) that aren't always measured by stats.

    The two things that make me shy away from offering huge money are:

    1) He does not even have a top 6 OPS on his own team during this healthy season. I know OPS is not everything, and I tend to use that stat too much, but paying $20M/yr plus for a .780 to .790 OPS just turns me off too much.

    2) He has a weak arm and still gets late breaks or takes wrong angles on balls a bit too much for my liking. Yes, he makes up for it and then some with his speed, but I do not feel he is as great a fielder as many here seem to feel he is.

    Sox4ever

    I get the weak arm comment but the "late breaks and bad angles" has been repeated ad nauseum at this site and I think is totally bogus. I have never heard a knowledgeable baseball commentator make that claim. Ellsbury gets to just about everything hit his way. Nothing gets by him in left center unless it's up off the wall and it's rare that one hit into the gap in right center gets beyond him.

    You usually express a keen baseball mind and back up your opinions with facts but on Ellsbury's fielding you seem to be stuck, like Salty, on mindnumbingly baseless claims.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    Ells 5 at 18 or Cano 7 at 30 - which one?

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    which is dumber?

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back, but even $18M x 5 or more years is too high for me.

    There are so many positive things he brings to the game (and our team) that aren't always measured by stats.

    The two things that make me shy away from offering huge money are:

    1) He does not even have a top 6 OPS on his own team during this healthy season. I know OPS is not everything, and I tend to use that stat too much, but paying $20M/yr plus for a .780 to .790 OPS just turns me off too much.

    2) He has a weak arm and still gets late breaks or takes wrong angles on balls a bit too much for my liking. Yes, he makes up for it and then some with his speed, but I do not feel he is as great a fielder as many here seem to feel he is.

    Sox4ever



    Not sure he gets any more late breaks that anyone one else because I've seen Vic and Bradley have the same problem. 

    That said, I completely agree with the rest of your assessment.  I think he is a very good centerfielder but a long way from great.  Vic this year in RF comes a lot closer to the mark. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back, but even $18M x 5 or more years is too high for me.

    There are so many positive things he brings to the game (and our team) that aren't always measured by stats.

    The two things that make me shy away from offering huge money are:

    1) He does not even have a top 6 OPS on his own team during this healthy season. I know OPS is not everything, and I tend to use that stat too much, but paying $20M/yr plus for a .780 to .790 OPS just turns me off too much.

    2) He has a weak arm and still gets late breaks or takes wrong angles on balls a bit too much for my liking. Yes, he makes up for it and then some with his speed, but I do not feel he is as great a fielder as many here seem to feel he is.

    Sox4ever

     



    Not sure he gets any more late breaks that anyone one else because I've seen Vic and Bradley have the same problem. 

     

    That said, I completely agree with the rest of your assessment.  I think he is a very good centerfielder but a long way from great.  Vic this year in RF comes a lot closer to the mark. 



    I think he used to get more bad breaks and take more bad routes to the ball, but he has improved in this area since 2008. 

    I still think he is reckless in not calling off other players, and there was another near collision with (I believe) Nava the other night.

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back as our leadoff hitter next year, but I can't see paying $18M+ a year for someone who isn't even a top 6 OPS guy on his own team. I rarely bring up the injury issue, but it does have a slight influence on my position as well.

    Bottom 5 arm in MLB. Not great.

    Not quite top 5 fielding CF'er. Very very good, but not Great.

    Best basestealer in MLB. GREAT!!!

    Decent, but not great OBP, especially for a leadoff hitter. (His .355 OBP places him at about number 40 out of 140 qualifying MLB players this year.) Not great.

    70 XBHs out of his last 880 PAs is not great.

     

    To me, $18M+ a year should go only to great players. He's looking great these last 4 games, but that is no reason to add $2-4M a year to the true value offer. Spending that on Ellsbury will prevent us from keeping or signing several players into the future, and the draft pick we will gain by him walking tips the balance even more towards the position of saying, "thanks, but no thanks."

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back, but even $18M x 5 or more years is too high for me.

    There are so many positive things he brings to the game (and our team) that aren't always measured by stats.

    The two things that make me shy away from offering huge money are:

    1) He does not even have a top 6 OPS on his own team during this healthy season. I know OPS is not everything, and I tend to use that stat too much, but paying $20M/yr plus for a .780 to .790 OPS just turns me off too much.

    2) He has a weak arm and still gets late breaks or takes wrong angles on balls a bit too much for my liking. Yes, he makes up for it and then some with his speed, but I do not feel he is as great a fielder as many here seem to feel he is.

    Sox4ever

     

     



    Not sure he gets any more late breaks that anyone one else because I've seen Vic and Bradley have the same problem. 

     

     

    That said, I completely agree with the rest of your assessment.  I think he is a very good centerfielder but a long way from great.  Vic this year in RF comes a lot closer to the mark. 

     



    I think he used to get more bad breaks and take more bad routes to the ball, but he has improved in this area since 2008. 

     

    I still think he is reckless in not calling off other players, and there was another near collision with (I believe) Nava the other night.

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back as our leadoff hitter next year, but I can't see paying $18M+ a year for someone who isn't even a top 6 OPS guy on his own team. I rarely bring up the injury issue, but it does have a slight influence on my position as well.

    Bottom 5 arm in MLB. Not great.

    Not quite top 5 fielding CF'er. Very very good, but not Great.

    Best basestealer in MLB. GREAT!!!

    Decent, but not great OBP, especially for a leadoff hitter. (His .355 OBP places him at about number 40 out of 140 qualifying MLB players this year.) Not great.

    70 XBHs out of his last 880 PAs is not great.

     

    To me, $18M+ a year should go only to great players. He's looking great these last 4 games, but that is no reason to add $2-4M a year to the true value offer. Spending that on Ellsbury will prevent us from keeping or signing several players into the future, and the draft pick we will gain by him walking tips the balance even more towards the position of saying, "thanks, but no thanks."



    Sorry, but I don't think this argument (highlighted) is valid. 

    Should I assume from your position that if there's a ball hit between two fielders and neither of them is sure that they can make the play that they should just pull up and let it drop?  Or would you rather have one - or both - of them go after it, even if neither of them is sure they can make the play? 

    We all saw what happened less than a week ago when an OF assumed someone else was going to get a ball.  I'd prefer to have a guy go after the ball unless he's called off. 
     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Javi60. Show Javi60's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to jblazed9's comment:

    Ben should give Ellsbury the pen to fill in the check. Sign him now.



    We need him, so just two words: sign him!...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    I'd love to have Ellsbury back, but even $18M x 5 or more years is too high for me.

    There are so many positive things he brings to the game (and our team) that aren't always measured by stats.

    The two things that make me shy away from offering huge money are:

    1) He does not even have a top 6 OPS on his own team during this healthy season. I know OPS is not everything, and I tend to use that stat too much, but paying $20M/yr plus for a .780 to .790 OPS just turns me off too much.

    2) He has a weak arm and still gets late breaks or takes wrong angles on balls a bit too much for my liking. Yes, he makes up for it and then some with his speed, but I do not feel he is as great a fielder as many here seem to feel he is.

    Sox4ever

     

    I get the weak arm comment but the "late breaks and bad angles" has been repeated ad nauseum at this site and I think is totally bogus. I have never heard a knowledgeable baseball commentator make that claim.

    Is taht supposed to be evidence of anything meaningful? Just the other night, the commentator mentioned Ellsbury got a late break. 

    I've repeated over and over that he has improved in this area, but he is not great at judging balls correctly.

    His arm is certainly one of the worst in MLB in CF.

    Ellsbury gets to just about everything hit his way. Nothing gets by him in left center unless it's up off the wall and it's rare that one hit into the gap in right center gets beyond him. 

    His speed more than makes up for his occaisonal misreads. He is certainly a top 10 defensive CF'er even with teh weak arm and poor reads. Top 5 is up for debate.

    You usually express a keen baseball mind and back up your opinions with facts but on Ellsbury's fielding you seem to be stuck, like Salty, on mindnumbingly baseless claims.

    No, I used to think Ellsbury was a great fielder. My views changed near the end of 2008, when I started looking closer. They have changed again since then, as he has improved.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    I still think he is reckless in not calling off other players, and there was another near collision with (I believe) Nava the other night.

     


    Sorry, but I don't think this argument (highlighted) is valid. 

    Should I assume from your position that if there's a ball hit between two fielders and neither of them is sure that they can make the play that they should just pull up and let it drop?  Or would you rather have one - or both - of them go after it, even if neither of them is sure they can make the play? 

    We all saw what happened less than a week ago when an OF assumed someone else was going to get a ball.  I'd prefer to have a guy go after the ball unless he's called off.  

     

    Yes, the play you were talking about was prossibly not either fielder's fault. I do think Ellsbury knew he had it near the end of the play at least, and should have called off, I believe it was Nava, but maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. It wasn't a clear issue.

    It's not my position to let it drop, but as soon as one player is pretty sure he can catch it or has the best chance to catch it, he should yell loudly, "I got it!" Since the Beltre play, I have watched Ellsbury very closely on tweeners, and I never see him call of anyone: never!

    It is common baseball tradition for corner OF'ers to defer to the CF on tweeners, but the CF'er should still call for ones that are close.

    The play with Beltre has been a hot issue. I have heard so many posters blame Beltre, blame Tito, and blame Theo, but hardly anyone puts any blame on Ellsbury. I must have replayed that play 50 times. Both players did exactly as the book says: run hard for the ball, until you are called off. Ellsbury's lips never moved. He clearly had the best read on the ball, and IF'er traditionally defer to OF'ers who have the better angle. To me, that collision was 100% Ellsbury's fault, so when people say his injuries were "freak injuries", I cringe at the notion. There ahve been other plays where I think Ellsbury should have called off the other OF'er or IF'er as they were not bang-bang plays in no man's land. He is a bit reckless in this area... not terribly so, but none the less, he is dangerous to himself and his teammates at times.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    With Granderson going to free agency, and with the Sox tied up at second base for the next eight years, I could see the Yankees deciding to sign Ellsbury instead of Cano. If Cano's demands are too rich for their tastes, they might use this alternate approach to try to leverage him down. Instead of signing Cano + middle-class outfielder, they could sign Ellsbury + middle-class infielder. It would prevent Ellsbury from staying with the Sox, might help them save a few bucks, and there would be no risk of Cano ending up in Boston.



    The Yanks do seem to suscribe to the addition by subtraction method by taking players from the Sox as kind of a double whammy approach, but I think they move Garnder to CF and sign a corner Of'er for cheaper than Ells.

     

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I still think he is reckless in not calling off other players, and there was another near collision with (I believe) Nava the other night.

     


    Sorry, but I don't think this argument (highlighted) is valid. 

    Should I assume from your position that if there's a ball hit between two fielders and neither of them is sure that they can make the play that they should just pull up and let it drop?  Or would you rather have one - or both - of them go after it, even if neither of them is sure they can make the play? 

    We all saw what happened less than a week ago when an OF assumed someone else was going to get a ball.  I'd prefer to have a guy go after the ball unless he's called off.  

     

    Yes, the play you were talking about was prossibly not either fielder's fault. I do think Ellsbury knew he had it near the end of the play at least, and should have called off, I believe it was Nava, but maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. It wasn't a clear issue.

    It's not my position to let it drop, but as soon as one player is pretty sure he can catch it or has the best chance to catch it, he should yell loudly, "I got it!" Since the Beltre play, I have watched Ellsbury very closely on tweeners, and I never see him call of anyone: never!

    It is common baseball tradition for corner OF'ers to defer to the CF on tweeners, but the CF'er should still call for ones that are close.

    The play with Beltre has been a hot issue. I have heard so many posters blame Beltre, blame Tito, and blame Theo, but hardly anyone puts any blame on Ellsbury. I must have replayed that play 50 times. Both players did exactly as the book says: run hard for the ball, until you are called off. Ellsbury's lips never moved. He clearly had the best read on the ball, and IF'er traditionally defer to OF'ers who have the better angle. To me, that collision was 100% Ellsbury's fault, so when people say his injuries were "freak injuries", I cringe at the notion. There ahve been other plays where I think Ellsbury should have called off the other OF'er or IF'er as they were not bang-bang plays in no man's land. He is a bit reckless in this area... not terribly so, but none the less, he is dangerous to himself and his teammates at times.

    Don't think I subscribe to the position that the Beltre/Ellsbury collision was 100% Ellsbury's fault. As things often are it's just not that black & white. How about the SS responsibilty to help call one or the other off? And Theo sticking the fleetfooted Ellsbury in LF to accomodate the aging Cameron in CF.
    Even with the mediocre arm, I consider Ellsbury the best defensive Centerfielder the Sox have ever had and that includes Dom Dimaggio, Jimmy Piersall and Fred Lynn. He has more speed than any of the past CFs and I think he gets to more balls than any of the others.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share