Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    It's indicative of the great job Cherington did assembling this team.  A long absence by Ortiz didn't stop it, nor did a long absence by Buchholz.



    Don't forget Softy's background-developing. absurdly fulsome praise for "Manager John" earlier this season.  

    That sort of Teddy Bear Trap is typical of Softy's patronising yet transparent approach i.e. he slaughtered Cherington all winter then, following a good start by the Sox, he started praising our new manager to the hilt....laying ground for a specious post-season claim that he was right all along about Cherington and it's "Manager John" that made the difference.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    John Ferrell has done "the great job", not the GM.



    "Ferrell"?  BTW, I posted my previous comment about your phony anti-Cherington love for Farrell before I saw this misspelled post about your hero.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    Next Softy is going to claim that he does know how to spell the manager's name, but he deliberately misspelled it "Ferrell" as a joint tribute to Rick and "Manager John".

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    It's indicative of the great job Cherington did assembling this team.  A long absence by Ortiz didn't stop it, nor did a long absence by Buchholz.

     



     

    Don't forget Softy's background-developing. absurdly fulsome praise for "Manager John" earlier this season.  

    That sort of Teddy Bear Trap is typical of Softy's patronising yet transparent approach i.e. he slaughtered Cherington all winter then, following a good start by the Sox, he started praising our new manager to the hilt....laying ground for a specious post-season claim that he was right all along about Cherington and it's "Manager John" that made the difference.

    [/QUOTE]

    Even if his current revisionist It-was-Farrell-not-Cherrington stance is right (which it obviously isn't as it was a natural mix of mananging, roster-building, and maybe just a tiny touch of player performance), he still has the usual egg on face, as "Manager John" was an outcropping of his belittling of Farrell's hiring.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    Ahahahahahaha.....poor Softy.....if he wasn't so evil I'd feel sorry for him.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    Not surprised in the short term. That much is fairly common. But in the long term his absence would be a lot more telling. We will need him.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    Not surprised in the short term. That much is fairly common. But in the long term his absence would be a lot more telling. We will need him.

     



    Agreed.  I think his presence in the line-up is a must at the ALCS/WS stage.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

     

    It's interesting to note that Crisp just hit his 21st homer of the 2013 season, and has been a key veteran leader in the A's 2nd straight season in the playoffs. Projections are just that, often wrong for many, but no one would have predicted the A's are neck and neck with the Red Sox for best record and homefield. 

    I think it's interesting to see what's happened to the last starting CF's for the last Red Sox championship season. 


    ==================================

    Monday morning quarterback perhaps but I wish we had kept  COCO CRISP !!!  And I would try to get him back if possible.

    Yup, I know he's 33  but I think he's still got 2-3 years in him and I was sorry to see him go but, obviously, Ells was better although I'd kept him to play left or right field and avoided JD Drew & C. Crawford & we'd saved a lot of money too. Heck, he's only gone from us 4 years. Soriano was gone from NY for 10 years.  Speaking of Soriano, could he play CF for us for a one year deal...please don't lay into me, I'm partly joking but still asking ?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    Deja drivel.





     

    LOL

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    Not surprised in the short term. That much is fairly common. But in the long term his absence would be a lot more telling. We will need him.

     

     



    Agreed.  I think his presence in the line-up is a must at the ALCS/WS stage.

     



    Unless he is dead Ellsbreaky will be back in the lineup by the playoffs, but probably not before. Here is why: its a contract year. I am not insinuating that his injuries are not real. I am just saying that when you miss over 40% of your team's games something is wrong. I can see the discussions with the various GMs with Borass making more than a tangential mention of that fact during the negotiations. If he misses the playoffs and doesn't play again this year its going to cost him a bundle. Regardless of whether he returns or not, there is no way I would offer him more than $14M per year for four years with a few incentives related to being ON THE FIELD that could bring the value of the contract up a bit. Some idiot GM will probably offer more, so IMO, Ellsbreaky is G-O-N-E.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    John Ferrell has done "the great job", not the GM.

     




    First, its FARRELL, not Ferrell. Second, I was not aware that the manager for the Sox is the guy who signed Uehara, Victorino, Gomes, Napoli etc. Is that something new? Third, Farrell has done a good job overall, but has made too many tactical errors IMO to have his body of work described as "great".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In all fairness, John Farrell has significant input in player transactions.  It was John Farrell who convinced upper management not to trade Jon Lester in a package with either Ellsbury or Buchholz and other prospects for Johan Santana when he was pitching coach.  He pretty much put his job on the line back then.  Everybody likes to say "Ben" did this and "Ben" did that, but like most billion dollar corporations, there is significant input from many people.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    John Ferrell has done "the great job", not the GM.

     




    First, its FARRELL, not Ferrell. Second, I was not aware that the manager for the Sox is the guy who signed Uehara, Victorino, Gomes, Napoli etc. Is that something new? Third, Farrell has done a good job overall, but has made too many tactical errors IMO to have his body of work described as "great".

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty pathhetic that Softy doesn't know know how to spell 'Farrell'.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    I think, with the broken foot and just a few weeks left, he's played his last game ever for the Red Sox. I'm one of the few Red Sox fans who hopes that is the case.

    It's interesting to note that Crisp just hit his 21st homer of the 2013 season, and has been a key veteran leader in the A's 2nd straight season in the playoffs. Projections are just that, often wrong for many, but no one would have predicted the A's are neck and neck with the Red Sox for best record and homefield. 

    I think it's interesting to see what's happened to the last starting CF's for the last Red Sox championship season. 

    And it's interesting to see how time flies and Ellsbury has probably played his last game for the Red Sox. With Victorino and Bradley, it's going to be interesting to see whether they are embraced with the same doting fan support that was heaped on Ellsbury for the time he was with the Red Sox. 

    For those who feel differently, where do you see Ellsbury over the next few weeks and next years. And if he never plays another game for the Red Sox, what will miss about this player and the expecations that he was going to be an all-time Red Sox great and MLB superstar?

    Feel free to disagree. Thanks.

     

    First I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to see Ells back. That aspect of this discussion confuses me. If you were a real Sox fan I would think you would want Ells back. It is obvious that the Sox survived well without him, but the same could be said for the absence of any player who was out with injuries and the Sox continued to thrive and win. Ells brings speed to the lineup that is absent without him, or not as much of a threat. While he may not be the only engine that makes this offense go, his production only makes this lineup more of a threat, especially in low scoring affairs when "small ball" is needed.

    As for Coco I don't understand the love some have for him. Sure he's got 21hrs, but he's hitting .257 while Ells is hitting .299 with 52 stolen bases to Coco's 19, Ells with 31 two baggers to Coco's 20. And Ells OBP is 25 points higher at .355 to Coco's .330. 

    How everyone has so quickly figured out you are Softy in disquise I'm not sure but I guess it is by the tone of your writing, plus I guess Softy disappeared and luckily now we've got you !! Guess I should like the others have known that you would reappear in another name to the group. 

    Hetch

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    Not surprised in the short term. That much is fairly common. But in the long term his absence would be a lot more telling. We will need him.

    Agreed.  I think his presence in the line-up is a must at the ALCS/WS stage.

    Unless he is dead Ellsbreaky will be back in the lineup by the playoffs, but probably not before. Here is why: its a contract year. I am not insinuating that his injuries are not real. I am just saying that when you miss over 40% of your team's games something is wrong. I can see the discussions with the various GMs with Borass making more than a tangential mention of that fact during the negotiations. If he misses the playoffs and doesn't play again this year its going to cost him a bundle. Regardless of whether he returns or not, there is no way I would offer him more than $14M per year for four years with a few incentives related to being ON THE FIELD that could bring the value of the contract up a bit. Some idiot GM will probably offer more, so IMO, Ellsbreaky is G-O-N-E.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pumpsie, 

    One thing I'll miss about you after this post is your always positive attitude, so I'm really going to be feeling awful guilty about putting your on the ignore list. Your referring to Ells as Ellsbreaky is about as silly as me referring to you as "Humpty Pumpty". But as I say to those lucky enough to be on my IGNORE LIST. 

    Goodbye !!

    Hetch

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    Next man up.  This is a really good TEAM.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

     

    I think, with the broken foot and just a few weeks left, he's played his last game ever for the Red Sox. I'm one of the few Red Sox fans who hopes that is the case.

    It's interesting to note that Crisp just hit his 21st homer of the 2013 season, and has been a key veteran leader in the A's 2nd straight season in the playoffs. Projections are just that, often wrong for many, but no one would have predicted the A's are neck and neck with the Red Sox for best record and homefield. 

    I think it's interesting to see what's happened to the last starting CF's for the last Red Sox championship season. 

    And it's interesting to see how time flies and Ellsbury has probably played his last game for the Red Sox. With Victorino and Bradley, it's going to be interesting to see whether they are embraced with the same doting fan support that was heaped on Ellsbury for the time he was with the Red Sox. 

    For those who feel differently, where do you see Ellsbury over the next few weeks and next years. And if he never plays another game for the Red Sox, what will miss about this player and the expecations that he was going to be an all-time Red Sox great and MLB superstar?

    Feel free to disagree. Thanks.

     




    So do we count your litany of "Old Man Victorino" and numerous references to his wasteful contract as "doting fan support"?

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    Next Softy is going to claim that he does know how to spell the manager's name, but he deliberately misspelled it "Ferrell" as a joint tribute to Rick and "Manager John".

     



    Sorry.  I don't agree.  Softy's next move will be to tell us that Farrell has been spelling his own name wrong.  Smile

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    Look, if Buch with a miniscule ERA and a 9-0 record can down for 3 months and not be missed, no one on this team is irreplaceable, just plug in another player and don't miss a beat, all season long.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    First off, players get hurt ! Second, Elles has been unreliable (injury-prone) during his time here. Third, he has had a very good season (injury aside) but Boras is his agent.

    Signing Elles based on the expected over the top pay-out is a bIg NO.

    All things being equal of course you ant him here.... things are not equal.



    Burrito, 

    How do you call Ells injury prone when his two major injuries are incurred by being run over by a team mate and being fallen on by a 250 lb relief pitcher. Pardon the pun but you are off base. 

    Hetch

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    John Ferrell has done "the great job", not the GM.

     

     




    First, its FARRELL, not Ferrell. Second, I was not aware that the manager for the Sox is the guy who signed Uehara, Victorino, Gomes, Napoli etc. Is that something new? Third, Farrell has done a good job overall, but has made too many tactical errors IMO to have his body of work described as "great".

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In all fairness, John Farrell has significant input in player transactions.  It was John Farrell who convinced upper management not to trade Jon Lester in a package with either Ellsbury or Buchholz and other prospects for Johan Santana when he was pitching coach.  He pretty much put his job on the line back then.  Everybody likes to say "Ben" did this and "Ben" did that, but like most billion dollar corporations, there is significant input from many people.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Had we done that trade we likely win the 2008 World Series and keep Softy's hero Coco Crisp here long-term... easily worth Lester and Ells if the banner was won, esp since the 4 seasons after '08 the team didn't come close to winning one.

    Of course this entire thread is typical Softlaw drivel as stats proved him wrong on Ellsbury years ago. The guy played through at least all his arbitration years here and often at an all-star level when Softy predicted he'd be a 9 hitter in the NL or a 4th OFer AAAA player in the AL by now. Over the span of the 5 years since the Crisp/Ells debate began Jacoby has FARV AND AWAY been the superior player.

    Softlaw.... now 'fireman' was WRONG WRONG WRONG

    Just like it looks like he was wrong about EVERYTHING this offseason and brought his spiteful disgusting hatred and refusal to admit fault to the table at all times. What a twisted and sick individual.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    John Ferrell has done "the great job", not the GM.

     

     

     




    First, its FARRELL, not Ferrell. Second, I was not aware that the manager for the Sox is the guy who signed Uehara, Victorino, Gomes, Napoli etc. Is that something new? Third, Farrell has done a good job overall, but has made too many tactical errors IMO to have his body of work described as "great".

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    In all fairness, John Farrell has significant input in player transactions.  It was John Farrell who convinced upper management not to trade Jon Lester in a package with either Ellsbury or Buchholz and other prospects for Johan Santana when he was pitching coach.  He pretty much put his job on the line back then.  Everybody likes to say "Ben" did this and "Ben" did that, but like most billion dollar corporations, there is significant input from many people.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Had we done that trade we likely win the 2008 World Series and keep Softy's hero Coco Crisp here long-term... easily worth Lester and Ells if the banner was won, esp since the 4 seasons after '08 the team didn't come close to winning one.

     

    Of course this entire thread is typical Softlaw drivel as stats proved him wrong on Ellsbury years ago. The guy played through at least all his arbitration years here and often at an all-star level when Softy predicted he'd be a 9 hitter in the NL or a 4th OFer AAAA player in the AL by now. Over the span of the 5 years since the Crisp/Ells debate began Jacoby has FAR AND AWAY been the superior player.

    Softlaw.... now 'fireman' was WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

    Just like it looks like he was wrong about EVERYTHING this offseason and brought his spiteful disgusting hatred and refusal to admit fault to the table at all times. What a twisted and sick individual.

    [/QUOTE]

    The main points in bold of course;-)

    So funny that board jester Softflaw can't spell the manager's name correctly and now asks that we 'dote support on' Victorino next season if Ells is gone when the man HATED on Shane all spring.

    Sad that the team wins, he cries and hides like a coward, and now during an exciting playoff push he is back to spew negative vomit

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Ellsbury's Absence Hasn't been a Factor at all, are you Surprised?

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

     

    I think, with the broken foot and just a few weeks left, he's played his last game ever for the Red Sox. I'm one of the few Red Sox fans who hopes that is the case.

    It's interesting to note that Crisp just hit his 21st homer of the 2013 season,

    And when Coco was here, he was often injured and UNDERPERFORMED as well.  Coco had his chance here.  How many seasons has it taken for him to make a mark offensively? His defense was always good, but it is unfair to start saying he is the measure to look at for power - he never hit double digits in homers here and had a string of 6 or 7 seasons in a row without breaking double digits. 

    If you wish to pull one season of power out of a career - one could just as easily pick Ells year of over 30 HRs to throw out there.

    Coco's career BA is almost 30 points lower than Ellsbury, his OPS  is 50 points lower, his OBA is 30 points lower.   He has never stolen over 50 bases in 12 seasons (he did steal 49), while Ells has three times in 7 seasons, including 70 one year.

           If you wish to compare CFs ... try to be more balanced. 

     and has been a key veteran leader in the A's 2nd straight season in the playoffs. Projections are just that, often wrong for many, but no one would have predicted the A's are neck and neck with the Red Sox for best record and homefield. 

        If you think that the major league leader in stolen bases, over 30 doubles and 8 triples hasn't been missed, you are mistaken.  Sure, the team has done well as a team, but to say he hasn't been missed is to discount the impact he has had throughout the whole season.  YOU CANNOT HONESTLY surgically remove him at this point and say he hasn't mattered.

         

    I think it's interesting to see what's happened to the last starting CF's for the last Red Sox championship season. 

    And it's interesting to see how time flies and Ellsbury has probably played his last game for the Red Sox. With Victorino and Bradley, it's going to be interesting to see whether they are embraced with the same doting fan support that was heaped on Ellsbury for the time he was with the Red Sox. 

     

       Ellsbury has made his case for keeping him difficult with his injury history.  But you are unquestionably dishonest in your dismissal of him out of hand. 

    For those who feel differently, where do you see Ellsbury over the next few weeks and next years.

        I don't see him in a Sox uni after this season.  But I do see him coming back this season and making a difference in the team during this off season.  I didn't see him staying with the Sox simply because his agent Scott Borass has him expecting way too much.   

    And if he never plays another game for the Red Sox, what will miss about this player and the expecations that he was going to be an all-time Red Sox great and MLB superstar?

       Your personal feelings against Ellsbury are clear.  He is a very fine player in several areas.  Teams don't lose the calibre of player without some loss in production, offensively or defensively.  That doesn't mean that Jackie Bradley Jr won't step in and be as good or better.  I fully expect he will, but to dismiss Ellsbury out of hand as you are is ridiculous.  It speaks of emotional impact on your thinking rather than rational impact ...

     

     

    Feel free to disagree. Thanks.

     




     

     
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