Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]Not nearly enough tinkering.  Ellsbury (less his 4 dingers) and Crawford are in horrible slumps, and their backup righties (Cameron, McDonald) are no better.  Tek is a much better catcher than Salty, but he may also be the worst hitter in MLB.  Drew and Ortiz have shown they have issues hitting lefties.  Lowrie needs to play every day, which creates a problem for Scutaro.  And so on.  We already know that Francona hates to tinker with the lineup, but these are unusual times.  Worst ERA in the AL and a lineup that has been much worse than projected. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Maxi,

    All good points!  As I said in the opening post, I get why Francona has been making these moves with the starting lineup.  I'm not even sure that he shouldn't keep doing it.  The starting pitching has actually been good the last 5ish games, but you are right about the continued struggles with the bats.  I still would like to see him go with the regular starters w/ Tek. & Lowrie for a stretch.  Make substitutions as each game progresses if needed.  Just want to see if some continuity helps????

    I don't blame Francona for doing what he's done so far.  Brutal situation!  CRAZY!   :)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]Not nearly enough tinkering.  Ellsbury (less his 4 dingers) and Crawford are in horrible slumps, and their backup righties (Cameron, McDonald) are no better.  Tek is a much better catcher than Salty, but he may also be the worst hitter in MLB.  Drew and Ortiz have shown they have issues hitting lefties.  Lowrie needs to play every day, which creates a problem for Scutaro.  And so on.  We already know that Francona hates to tinker with the lineup, but these are unusual times.  Worst ERA in the AL and a lineup that has been much worse than projected. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]So far Ortiz has beaten the curve on his recent years of struggles with LH pitchers. It is only 27 PAs but his 1.027 OPS is nothing to sneeze at.

    Ellsbury who up to this season historically was pretty much equal either way is getting killed by LH pitching (23 PAs - .367 OPS). Crawford is just getting pretty equally killed by all pitchers.

    It was a line-up you could look at in the spring and know that there would be lots of tinkering. That tinkering will be stat deep too, not just considering LH-RH match-up but also looking at head to head stats too. Francona will need to juggle days off based on that to try and keep all the players fresh and engaged.

    While he will work to minimize stacking to many LH in a row, there is no way to avoid it and have a LH-RH-LH-RH line-up one through nine that Tito prefers.. The days of the players coming to the park every day and knowing they are hitting in the same slot as yesterday are over for the time being.

    And that is way the FO built the team, Francona is in the position of trying to make it work somewhere besides on paper and in the hot stove headlines. And tinkering right now is the only option IMO.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    What fivekatz said.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    Makes sense 5Katz,  I would still like to see something like................

    Els., Pedroia, Yuke, A-Gon, Lowrie, Papi, J.D., Tek., Crawford ........... regardless of whether or not we are facing a LHP.  Go with THE starters (MY) even if we face the LHP.  Break up the LLLL   & go L R L R

    Once Els starts rolling, which he will, I LIKE this order.  Could tweak a few at the bottom???
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    I'm also assuming Crawford, A-Gon, Yuke, & Tek will all start hitting a lot better.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    I do get why Francona is tinkering, & that it has been by design.  We have also faced MANY more lefties in the beginning of this season than we normally will.  I PRAY!!!!@
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]With our pitching & hitting off to such a bad start, I understand why Tito has felt the need to 'tinker' with the daily 'starting lineup,' BUT I truly think it's time to GO WITH the 'regular' starters.  Our subs (Cameron, McDonald, Scutaro, Salty, etc.) NEED to get comfortable with their role on this team, and the starters (YES! Lowrie, Tek. 'for now', etc.) need to settle into the season without all the DAILY tinkering.  If stats mean anything, and they do, our regular starters WILL heat up, BUT I think the tinkering MAY be adding to the inconsistency at this point. THE GOOD NEWS.......  It looks like or starting pitchers are perhaps getting it together???  Even Lackey & Dice-K!?!?!?! :)  Beckett looks awesome!  Let's pray he's really back!  It really looks that way:)  Lester IS ALWAYS solid!  Buchholz IS working it out! THE BAD NEWS?????  Why are SO MANY of our statistically GOOD hitters still struggling???  Getting back in the groove after injury.......  New team??????  Playing under the Boston Microscope????  The constant Tinkering?????????? At this point......   Now that the Sox are starting to get into the 'winning' (not trying to quote Charlie Sheen) groove, I really think it's time for Tito to GO WITH a CONSISTENT lineup!  THEN........... Depending on the ebb & flow of the game, bring in pinch-hitters as NEEDED! It's time to let this TEAM settle in for the long haul! p.s.   It's time to 'cut bait' on the Salty water fishing 'trip!' p.p.s.   Lowrie MUST be our REGULAR starting SS.  Sorry Marco!!! p.p.s.  Pray they're looking for a good catcher!  OR  Salty as backup??????
    Posted by redsoxdirtdog[/QUOTE]

    These statements are logically flawed.  When you say that the "subs" need to to get comfortable with their role on the team, what the heck does that mean?  Are they supposed to be mediocre so that they can stay subs?  Their job is to be prepared, and that means being prepared to be tinkered with.  It's also called getting an opportunity.  And exactly how did Lowrie earn his way into you calling him a "starter" now? 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    Time may prove this to be part of Lowrie's wrist problems, but as an MLB player before this TS Williams impersonation he has been putting on with his hot streak, Lowrie is much better from the RH side versus LH. If that reverts to form he is best leveraged in a platoon with Scutaro.

    Crawford (a strange signing for soooo much money) has a huge sample set showing he is far less effective versus LH pitching. Drew has been selectively platooned his entire stay in Boston for years for the same reason and in 2010 when injuries required Tito to play him more, his splits versus LH were awful. Ortiz is beating the curve so far but he has not aged well versus LH.

    So each of these guys IMO will need to be selectively platooned OR placed in the line-up commensurate with the match-up of the day.

    I would concur with a few spots being set. Pedroia probably in the long run could hit anywhere but he is spent a ton batting 2nd and doing it great, Leave him there. The best hitter is usually the 3 guy and that is A-Gon which gives you a R-L, then put Youk at 4 and most nights, except LH that have owned him you put Ortiz 5.

    Once Ellsbury comes out of it, if he is hitting LH and RH like he historically has, he's a great choice at leadoff. But right now putting him in the position of having the most AB opportunities in the game is a leap of faith. IMO Tito has done right thing putting the guy at the top based on deep splits and current trending. If Crawford gets on fire, he isn't a bad choice at all versus RH.

    Once the guys start seeing the ball well where they are will seem less importasnt of course. But so many LH can't help but make juggling a reality because more LH hitters can be stars while having a weakness for LH pitchers than RH can having a weakness for RH pitchers.

    It only stands to reason. The majority of pitchers are RH and if a RH can't hit them, he probably never makes it to the show. I'd love to put a line-up in this post for what it should look like versus LH and versus RH but like I said, I think that has a lot variables based on deep splits IMO.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    As John Maddon said, "Winning is a great deodorant."  Once the team as a whole starts hitting better and the pitchers perform with more consistency, this will become a forgotten or non-topic.  It may already be starting to head in that direction. 

    The issue that may linger is catcher. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    Dirtdog, define "starts rolling"?

    And, when is this going to happen?

    Ellsbury fits much better in the 9 spot or on another team.

    Crawford is the right leadoff fit, when he gets back "rolling". And "he will".

    Ellsbury isn't pressing, he's pouting.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    Davey Johnson was very good at alternating lefties in his lineup. He was a disciple of the master, Earl Weaver.

    Painful as it might be to bring this up the 1986 Mets had a lineup with numerous lefties, Strawberry, Hernandez, Dykstra (L).....Backman, Hojo and Mookie were switch hitters. Danny Heep the 4th outfielder was lefty. Tim Teufel the backup 2nd baseman batted right.

    Johnson was a believer in matching lefties vs righties (pitchers) and vice versa. I believe Johnson was one of the more technically sound managers ever. He even had two closers, Orosco who was lefty, McDowell who was righty. His rotation included two lefties, Bobby Ojeda and Sid Fernandez complimented nicely by Doc Gooden , Ron Darling and Rick Aguilera.

    Johnson used this lineup most nights:

    Dykstra CF(L)
    Backman 2b (S)
    Hernandez 1B (L)
    Carter C (R)
    Strawberry RF (L)
    Knight 3B (R) or Howard Johnson (S)
    Mookie Wilson LF (S) or Kevin Mitchell (R)
    Rafael Santana SS(R)
    pitcher's spot

    His lineup was L,R,L,R,L,R,L,R,pitcher....vs. righties.

    He could go L,R,L,R,L,R,R,R,pitcher by substituting Mitchell for Mookie or could replace Dykstra with Mookie and add another RH bat vs' lefties.

    Having Teufel (L) and Heep (L) on the bench allowed him to matchup against lefties and righties vs. opposing bullpens in late innings.

    This is a dream team for a manager in terms of match ups. He could change parts without sacrificing ability. He used lefty /righty matchups brillantly all season.

    I believe you can do this with our 2011 Red Sox to some degree, Platoon Drew/Cameron, Platoon Lowrie, Scutaro. The big problem is we don't have a reliable lefty in the pen. This will haunt us all season.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    There are only 2 lefties at the bottom of the line up......And Ellsbury generally handles lefties well

    Satly/Tek are switch hitters....Ellsbury L, Craw L, Pedey R, Lowrie S......

    What did you want to do?  Bat Pedrioa 7th and Youk 9th?  Or Lowrie 8th?  You could always bring in MacDonald or Scutaro to Pinch Hit
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    losmediasrojos,

    You wrote.......

    These statements are logically flawed.  When you say that the "subs" need to to get comfortable with their role on the team, what the heck does that mean?  Are they supposed to be mediocre so that they can stay subs?  Their job is to be prepared, and that means being prepared to be tinkered with.  It's also called getting an opportunity.  And exactly how did Lowrie earn his way into you calling him a "starter" now? 

    Yep!  You figured me out.....  I want the subs to stay mediocre!  Well, I obviously would prefer that they stay downright bad. 

    You are clearly perceptive & read between the lines of my OTHER posts.

    Way to sniff me out sherlock :)
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    I believe you can do this with our 2011 Red Sox to some degree, Platoon Drew/Cameron, Platoon Lowrie, Scutaro. The big problem is we don't have a reliable lefty in the pen. This will haunt us all season.

    Excellent post, Zilla. Excellent.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]Dirtdog, define "starts rolling"? And, when is this going to happen? Ellsbury fits much better in the 9 spot or on another team. Crawford is the right leadoff fit, when he gets back "rolling". And "he will". Ellsbury isn't pressing, he's pouting.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    I think he will start hitting close to .300???  decent OBP.....  good pop.....

    When???   Let's hope SOON!  I think Crawford is more comfortable out of the leadoff spot, based on past statements?  But, either one will hopefully step up & make that spot productive!  It sure hasn't been fun to watch, but I'm still certain they will all break out soon :)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    losmediasrojas.......

    by "get comfortable with their roles."  I meant not playing every other day.  In other words.........  Scutaro:  I would prefer Lowrie start MOST games at short.  The choice between Tek & Salty?  I want Tek 3-4 out of 5.  Cameron?  I don't want to see him too often!  I don't think he's got much left.  My point was...... That I want to see some of these guys LESS!  Of course I think they should be ready to contribute when they get the shot!  NO PROBLEM, I get it, if you look at one post in isolation, a statement often seems illogical without context. :) 
     
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    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    I don't want to see Ellsbury too often. I don't think he ever had much. Poor defender, and pitchers have him figured out.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]I don't want to see Ellsbury too often. I don't think he ever had much. Poor defender, and pitchers have him figured out.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    He certainly has looked bad as of late, especially going down LOOKING 3 times.  Going down LOOKING MANY times this season!  Drives me nuts.  That's a J.D. Drew move, not a leadoff hitter.  Lot's of strikeouts for Els?????  Ughhh!

    Having said all that.......................

    Him going down on strikes is uncharacteristic!  He has protected the plate well in the past.  He can hit for avg. & power!  He is a very good hitter & great man on base!  HE WILL BREAK OUT!!!!!!!!!  NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!

    I get the fact that you don't like him.  No problem.  BUT..... To sell him as sub par????????  Sub par fielder????  SORRY!  You're just flat wrong.  Not a strong arm???  OK, that's true!  Poor hitter???  Are you on crack?  :)
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChrisHouse. Show ChrisHouse's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup! : He certainly has looked bad as of late, especially going down LOOKING 3 times.  Going down LOOKING MANY times this season!  Drives me nuts.  That's a J.D. Drew move, not a leadoff hitter.  Lot's of strikeouts for Els?????  Ughhh! Having said all that....................... Him going down on strikes is uncharacteristic!  He has protected the plate well in the past.  He can hit for avg. & power!  He is a very good hitter & great man on base!  HE WILL BREAK OUT!!!!!!!!!  NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!! I get the fact that you don't like him.  No problem.  BUT..... To sell him as sub par????????  Sub par fielder????  SORRY!  You're just flat wrong.  Not a strong arm???  OK, that's true!  Poor hitter???  Are you on crack?  :)
    Posted by redsoxdirtdog[/QUOTE]

    You apparently aren't aware that Baseball GM is the new Softlaw. Softlaw made his his reputation on this forum by being the consummate Jake and Jed basher. It has established his fragile identity  and inflates his narcissicist ego. He is obsessed with being the forum contrarian and takes much pride in it. Most here just laugh at him, humor him or ignore him altogether. A few gullible regulars take him seriously all of the time. He is also on a bash Wakefield vendetta in recent weeks. He craves attention and has nothing to do all day long so he uses the forum for his entertainment.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup! : You apparently aren't aware that Baseball GM is the new Softlaw. Softlaw made his his reputation on this forum by being the consummate Jake and Jed basher. It has established his fragile identity  and inflates his narcissicist ego. He is obsessed with being the forum contrarian and takes much pride in it. Most here just laugh at him, humor him or ignore him altogether. A few gullible regulars take him seriously all of the time. He is also on a bash Wakefield vendetta in recent weeks. He craves attention and has nothing to do all day long so he uses the forum for his entertainment.
    Posted by ChrisHouse[/QUOTE]

    Thanks ChrisHouse,

    No..... I've gathered that.  I try to be reasonable with him, but also like shovin it up his @$$ a bit.  I also kind of feel a bit sorry for him???  I know I shouldn't, because he certainly brings it on himself, but I guess I am gullible enough to fell a bit sorry for him.  Yeh!  I get irritated by him, especially when he pulls out the stat sheet on subjective issues & argues the absurd, i.e. the Lowrie issue.  Anyway...... Not taking him seriously!  I don't know the histrionics of the whole Softlaw thing, but it seems to be the consensus that he is in fact this person.  Whatever....  Just having fun.  No harm, no foul :)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Enough tinkering with the starting lineup!

    We need more tinkering with the line-up, not less

    like...

    Bench the bums who can't hit lefties when...guess when...
        ...when we face a lefty.
     

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