Enough with Beckett bashing

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]the team has lost 2/3 of the games started by beckett...or some god awful pct...he has been horrible, injury prone, and a coward (running from the media and verlander matchup)
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I love (actually hate) it when Gammons (and others) say "well Beckett has pitched quality starts in 60% of his games"......Is that supposed to be good?  In 40% of his games he has pretty much handed his team a loss.  Keeping in mind that a Qs is only 3ER against 6IP and given that 60% is not a high percentage, how low has the pitching standard sunk?  Or is this just Gammons towing the company line with spin???
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : well, you are right - WAR does NOT take into account consistency; it's merely an aggregate...........and performance is all about CONSISTENCY.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Andrew,

    As I said....I am not a Sabre guy....I believe what i see more when watching the games, but it is a comparative Stat, so it seems inconsistency may be the norm for pitchers in todays era.....except for the upper echelon of guys. You are also right that the QS stat is one of mediocrity....but the fact is, as porr as Beckett has been to those of us who watch all his starts, if we were to see all the starts of all the pitchers in the AL, we probably wouldnt find a better replacement sitting out there for the Sox to get without giving up the farm.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : Yes, pumsie, it is a matter of opinion. I've clearly stated mine, as have others. Frustration is one thing, booing is another. One you seem to have too much class for. It's a personal decision, just one I don't agree with. As far as his conditioning, I have no idea what it consists of. He addressed it, during a spring training interview, with Peter Gammons. Paraphrasing, to the effect he didn't have the same body type and wouldn't ever look like "model Jacoby Ellsbury" no matter how much he worked out. From my own experience,  I believe that to be true. Some gym rats look like they've never stepped foot in a gym, others look like they live there. Different body types are more concussive and responsive than others, to exercise.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    You know I respect your opinion JBay. We will have to agree to disagree about this. There are lots of people on both sides of the fence when it comes to booing. There are those who think that its rude and boorish and would never do it to one of our own, and there are those who think booing is as old as the game itself and that any booing refers to the performance of a player and not to the player as a person.
    Just out of curiosity, would you have booed Manny Ramirez when he quit on his team because he was afraid the club would exercise the team option to keep him rather than setting him free on the open market so he could try to make more money? IMO that was the single worst episode of selfishness I have seen in the 50 years I have spent watching this team.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : well, you are right - WAR does NOT take into account consistency; it's merely an aggregate...........and performance is all about CONSISTENCY.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    and like you said  almost 1/2 of his starts who gives his team little chance of winning...very strange that people are defending him these days..but like francona defenders in october, they smell blood in the air and they know fans have reached a tipping point...they tried to prop up tito with all those crazy arguments about why the actions he didnt take made sense...now it is time to tow the beckett bootlicker line but you cant change facts...he is a bum and a quitter who doesnt care about his teammates or fans - just himself
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : Andrew, As I said....I am not a Sabre guy....I believe what i see more when watching the games, but it is a comparative Stat, so it seems inconsistency may be the norm for pitchers in todays era.....except for the upper echelon of guys. You are also right that the QS stat is one of mediocrity....but the fact is, as porr as Beckett has been to those of us who watch all his starts, if we were to see all the starts of all the pitchers in the AL, we probably wouldnt find a better replacement sitting out there for the Sox to get without giving up the farm.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

    Beckett is 10-18 in QS-GS
    Sheilds is 10-22
    Sabathia is 11-18
    Haren is 9-19
    Darvish is 10-20

    There are plenty of guys with much better ratios, Peavy, Weaver, Wilson, Verlander etc... but the idea that Beckett is alone among highly regarded AL pitchers, when it comes to QS ratio, is just wrong.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    fyi IN 14 OF HIS 18 STARTS HE HAS ALLOWED 4 RUNS OR LESS THAT IS A FAR CRY FROM THE 1/2 STATED.
    HE HAS HAD QUALITY STARTS IN 14 OUT OF 18 STARTS OR 70%



    It is not all about W/L or ERA it is about what the team has done in those games pitched.
    These numbers have shown several times before and are always disregarded by the haters.

    RS record when JB pitches W=7 & L=11 YEP NOT GOOD
    In 4 games he gave up 7, 7, 6 & 5

    IN 10 OF HIS STARTS THE RS HAVE SCORED 4 ONCE AND 3 OR LESS 9 TIMES

    In 14 games JB has given up 4 runs (3 times) & 3 or less in 11 & he has gone 6+ innings in all 14 most were 7+ (9 times)
     
    in May and June he gave up 7 in one, 4 twice under 3 in 5
    they lost 5 of those games (May & June) because the RS could not score over 3 runs. they only scored over 3 twice both 5 runs and won both.
    4 No Decisions and they are 2-2,
    2 L were bad games and 2 he gave up 1 & 2 runs a W and a L

    Now some one may say he has the same run support as others. On average that is true. How ever you take away an 11 run, 12 run and 8 run game and the RS have scored 5 twice 4 once and 3 or less in 11 games or 2.8 runs per game JB pitches

    WHEREAS CB HAS HAD 10 GAMES WHERE THE TEAM SCORED 7 UP TO 13 ON 10 OCCASIONS

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : You know I respect your opinion JBay. We will have to agree to disagree about this. There are lots of people on both sides of the fence when it comes to booing. There are those who think that its rude and boorish and would never do it to one of our own, and there are those who think booing is as old as the game itself and that any booing refers to the performance of a player and not to the player as a person. Just out of curiosity, would you have booed Manny Ramirez when he quit on his team because he was afraid the club would exercise the team option to keep him rather than setting him free on the open market so he could try to make more money? IMO that was the single worst episode of selfishness I have seen in the 50 years I have spent watching this team.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

     I'm on the side of not booing any player, one of my own or otherwise. That said, booing a performance is one thing, booing due to an injury, is another,  crosses the line.  FTR,  I wouldn't have booed Damon, nor would I have cheered. Manny's situation was extraordinary and excessive. I believe the action of the front office was the right one. enough was enough. I'm all for winning, but the right way, with the right players.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    the same nonsense about beckett this yr is what we heard from wakefield fanboys last yr...what do your eyes tell you??? is beckett a good pitcher? if you say yes you are a liar -plain and simple
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : and like you said  almost 1/2 of his starts who gives his team little chance of winning...very strange that people are defending him these days..but like francona defenders in october, they smell blood in the air and they know fans have reached a tipping point...they tried to prop up tito with all those crazy arguments about why the actions he didnt take made sense...now it is time to tow the beckett bootlicker line but you cant change facts...he is a bum and a quitter who doesnt care about his teammates or fans - just himself
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Because Pitching is so hard to find and because Beckett's financial committment is dwindling, I still think dumping Crawford is much more important.

    With Beckett, it's more about his attitude and that he can't finish seasons strong anymore and now his stuff has dimished too.

    Would I keep him around?  Only if he would be considered my 4th or 5th starter.  Which means you could only keep Beckett OR Lackey.  One of those 2 guys has to go (for again, the aforementioned attitude reason especially).

    We still need an Ace

    Rotation would be

    1 - Missing Ace (Cliff Lee?)
    2 -  Buck (who is injury prone)
    3 -  Lester
    4  - Doubrant
    5 -  Lackey OR Beckett

    Long Man - Morales

    Depth - should have guys ready in 2013 in the minors to get called up (eg Barnes)

    I didn't understand when mgt said going into the 2011 season they hope that Beckett Lester and Buck would all bounce back (Buck really just staying healthy) and then they saw it didn't work in 2011 and did it again in 2012 - just hoping they would be better....to think they'd try it 3 years in a row would be beyond insulting.....So...got get an Ace....Cliff Lee for Crawford kills 2 birds w/ one stone....and then you have only one problem remaining - dumping Lackey or Beckett and if they can do Lee for CC then it makes eating half of Beckett or Lackey's pay for a single low level prospect very palatable (and assuming that you can't dump all 3).....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : Andrew, As I said....I am not a Sabre guy....I believe what i see more when watching the games, but it is a comparative Stat, so it seems inconsistency may be the norm for pitchers in todays era.....except for the upper echelon of guys. You are also right that the QS stat is one of mediocrity....but the fact is, as porr as Beckett has been to those of us who watch all his starts, if we were to see all the starts of all the pitchers in the AL, we probably wouldnt find a better replacement sitting out there for the Sox to get without giving up the farm.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

    all good points
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]the same nonsense about beckett this yr is what we heard from wakefield fanboys last yr...what do your eyes tell you??? is beckett a good pitcher? if you say yes you are a liar -plain and simple
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    No, the question is "Can the Red Sox upgrade from Josh Beckett?"  Given his and the teams financial situation, the answer seems to be "No". 

    I fail to see how paying Beckett to pitch elsewhere improves the Red Sox pitching. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    • In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
      [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : Because Pitching is so hard to find and because Beckett's financial committment is dwindling, I still think dumping Crawford is much more important. With Beckett, it's more about his attitude and that he can't finish seasons strong anymore and now his stuff has dimished too. Would I keep him around?  Only if he would be considered my 4th or 5th starter.  Which means you could only keep Beckett OR Lackey.  One of those 2 guys has to go (for again, the aforementioned attitude reason especially). We still need an Ace Rotation would be 1 - Missing Ace (Cliff Lee?) 2 -  Buck (who is injury prone) 3 -  Lester 4  - Doubrant 5 -  Lackey OR Beckett Long Man - Morales Depth - should have guys ready in 2013 in the minors to get called up (eg Barnes) I didn't understand when mgt said going into the 2011 season they hope that Beckett Lester and Buck would all bounce back (Buck really just staying healthy) and then they saw it didn't work in 2011 and did it again in 2012 - just hoping they would be better....to think they'd try it 3 years in a row would be beyond insulting.....So...got get an Ace....Cliff Lee for Crawford kills 2 birds w/ one stone....and then you have only one problem remaining - dumping Lackey or Beckett and if they can do Lee for CC then it makes eating half of Beckett or Lackey's pay for a single low level prospect very palatable (and assuming that you can't dump all 3).....
      Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
      i agree completely with these points.....especially, a) we need an Ace and b)dumping Crawford and getting some of that Salary off our books is far more important.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]For all the Beckett bashing....he's scheduled to make his next start, on Sunday.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]
    I would not put any money on that.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : I would not put any money on that.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    nor would I, gale.  back issues tend to get worse, before better.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : nor would I, gale.  back issues tend to get worse, before better.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    and his back issues date back to 2008

    go figure - who coulda seen this thing coming?!!!???
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    CC HOMERED....reward? waivers
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]CC HOMERED....reward? waivers
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    LOL

    Has to be removed from games in late innings

    Will need TJ

    OBP is uner 300

    K'd twice last night

    and averages 3 pitches per AB.......
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    isn't it something about his non-taking ability? You'd think by his age he'd learn he's better off taking pitches and trying to draw counts, but he sure likes to take his hacks on the 1st and 2nd pitch.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing :  I'm on the side of not booing any player, one of my own or otherwise. That said, booing a performance is one thing, booing due to an injury, is another,  crosses the line.  FTR,  I wouldn't have booed Damon, nor would I have cheered. Manny's situation was extraordinary and excessive. I believe the action of the front office was the right one. enough was enough. I'm all for winning, but the right way, with the right players.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    I agree JBay.  I understand the frustration with Beckett and I could understand booing a bad performance, but booing an injury doesn't make sense to me. 

    I'm wondering if the folks who booed would have booed if Beckett were hit in the head with a line drive, knocked down for several minutes, but then was able to walk off the field on his own.

    In other words, does it make a difference that the injury was back spasms, and that carries with it a perception (unfair, IMO) of lack of conditioning and a lack of caring in Beckett's case?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]isn't it something about his non-taking ability? You'd think by his age he'd learn he's better off taking pitches and trying to draw counts, but he sure likes to take his hacks on the 1st and 2nd pitch.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    i know, it makes no sense

    it's not like he's a power hitter

    if he could get his OBP up over 350 he could earn himself an 80 million dollar contract....oh wait, scratch that.  The "Monster" has been fed!!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    Could a player contribute any less for his contract than CC with Sox? I don't think so. Even Lackey and his 82 mil, at least he went out there and threw a ton of innings--bad innings--but innings never the less.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]Could a player contribute any less for his contract than CC with Sox? I don't think so. Even Lackey and his 82 mil, at least he went out there and threw a ton of innings--bad innings--but innings never the less.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    The only other time I can think of an example would be Albert Belle...I believe the O's sent him home for like the last 2 or 3 years and continued to pay him.  Although I think the O's were able to settle for a lesser amount.  Not sure.  Would be good to find out and do a comparison.  But that would be the only one I can think of.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    Chan Ho Park was horrific if i recall after a 55 mil signing with Texas....
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    These numbers have been shown several times before and are always disregarded by the haters.


    I said this in my post above and the haters do disregard them and keep on hating.

    geo stated
    what do your eyes tell you??? is beckett a good pitcher? if you say yes you are a liar -plain and simple

    My answer is YES if you look at the numbers he has had 14 starts where he has given up 4 or less runs and gone 6+ to 8 innings. LOOK AT THE DAMN NUMBERS. NOT JUST THE ERA OR W/L
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from chronic352. Show chronic352's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    THUD....that HAS to be onee of the funniest points I have heard.  While Curt Schilling was pitching the media NEVER got bad press solely based on his political views!!  Comeon!!



    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : I think you are 100% correct on that.....not too get politcal....but the fact that Beckett is a Good Ole Boy from Texas is not going to be endearing to a Media that tends to lean Liberal.....guaranteed if he held a fund raiser for our current President his press coverage would improve immensely.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

     
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