Enough with Beckett bashing

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    Well, for me, people still don;t get it about Beckett.

    I can accept losing.

    I can accept less-than-stellar performances.

    Here's a list of things i can't accept:
    -Consistently being out of shape when his profession demands otherwise
    -Whining about finding the snitch when he acted poorly. Snitch or not, he was wrong and his focus was totally unnacceptable
    -"18 days off"
    -"It's that important to all of YOU, but it isn't to me" when talking about his dedication to baseball, the Red Sox, Boston and the fans.
    -The star treatment that started with the limo after his ST game after Valentine stated everyone would be riding buses and treated the same. Now, maybe ownership made that call on their own...maybe. But, even if they did, Beckett had to be aware of what Valentine said. He should NOT have seperated himself from his teammates with preferential treatment.
    -And the capper to it all, he makes 'Ace' money, and doesn't even put in the effort. Not even a little. If he WAS, there wouldn't be so many OBVIOUS conditioning issues.

    So, fine, look at his stats, reminisce about the past, twist and justify it however you want. He is obviously divisive and a lightning rod. Fan, media or Beckett HIMSELF created matters little at this point. His mere presence is dragging the whole team down and I don't understand how so many miss that. Ignore those SIX points I laid out if you want, they are mostly facts.

    His performance has not been there overall, and ESPECIALLY when it's mattered most. On top of that, his attitude is ATROCIOUS. On top of THAT, he gets paid a fortune to underperform and have a bad attitude about it.

    Yeah, go ahead and cheer. Sheep.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]Well, for me, people still don;t get it about Beckett. I can accept losing. I can accept less-than-stellar performances. Here's a list of things i can't accept: -Consistently being out of shape when his profession demands otherwise -Whining about finding the snitch when he acted poorly. Snitch or not, he was wrong and his focus was totally unnacceptable -"18 days off" -"It's that important to all of YOU, but it isn't to me" when talking about his dedication to baseball, the Red Sox, Boston and the fans. -The star treatment that started with the limo after his ST game after Valentine stated everyone would be riding buses and treated the same. Now, maybe ownership made that call on their own...maybe. But, even if they did, Beckett had to be aware of what Valentine said. He should NOT have seperated himself from his teammates with preferential treatment. -And the capper to it all, he makes 'Ace' money, and doesn't even put in the effort. Not even a little. If he WAS, there wouldn't be so many OBVIOUS conditioning issues. So, fine, look at his stats, reminisce about the past, twist and justify it however you want. He is obviously divisive and a lightning rod. Fan, media or Beckett HIMSELF created matters little at this point. His mere presence is dragging the whole team down and I don't understand how so many miss that. Ignore those SIX points I laid out if you want, they are mostly facts. His performance has not been there overall, and ESPECIALLY when it's mattered most. On top of that, his attitude is ATROCIOUS. On top of THAT, he gets paid a fortune to underperform and have a bad attitude about it. Yeah, go ahead and cheer. Sheep.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    +1
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JN86. Show JN86's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]Well, for me, people still don;t get it about Beckett. I can accept losing. I can accept less-than-stellar performances. Here's a list of things i can't accept: -Consistently being out of shape when his profession demands otherwise -Whining about finding the snitch when he acted poorly. Snitch or not, he was wrong and his focus was totally unnacceptable -"18 days off" -"It's that important to all of YOU, but it isn't to me" when talking about his dedication to baseball, the Red Sox, Boston and the fans. -The star treatment that started with the limo after his ST game after Valentine stated everyone would be riding buses and treated the same. Now, maybe ownership made that call on their own...maybe. But, even if they did, Beckett had to be aware of what Valentine said. He should NOT have seperated himself from his teammates with preferential treatment. -And the capper to it all, he makes 'Ace' money, and doesn't even put in the effort. Not even a little. If he WAS, there wouldn't be so many OBVIOUS conditioning issues. So, fine, look at his stats, reminisce about the past, twist and justify it however you want. He is obviously divisive and a lightning rod. Fan, media or Beckett HIMSELF created matters little at this point. His mere presence is dragging the whole team down and I don't understand how so many miss that. Ignore those SIX points I laid out if you want, they are mostly facts. His performance has not been there overall, and ESPECIALLY when it's mattered most. On top of that, his attitude is ATROCIOUS. On top of THAT, he gets paid a fortune to underperform and have a bad attitude about it. Yeah, go ahead and cheer. Sheep.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    I appreciate your list - but I would like to know how these are facts.
    Where is the "fact" that he is out of shape.  Do we have the facts from the Red Sox where they say he is out of shape?  I haven't seen them.  If there is - can you please provide the link. Otherwise I think that is your opinion.

    I am not even sure if he used the word "snitch" - I do know he made some brief comments about the locker room.  He did say he "made mistakes" - but also said what happens in the clubhouse - stays in the clubhouse.  I actually support that.  They are at that park for most of the afternoon and night.  The clubhouse should be their private area - the media should NOT be in there.  After he made his statement - UNLESS SOME MEDIA person asked - he never brought it up again.  I wouldn't call that whining.  Again - seems like that is your opinion.

    "18 days off" - I am giving you that one - it is a fact. 

    I actually think Josh was discussing having a family now and baseball not being his top priority and it shouldn't be.  Lester said basically the exact same thing a couple of weeks ago - NOTHING was mention of that.  He said he is a father and husband first - that is what is most important to him.  When he leaves the park - he leaves everything that is going on at the park.  Top priority his family - AS IT SHOULD BE!

    I actually believe that several starting pitchers took limos - not just Beckett - but of course he was the only one that was written about.  Since they were only playing 2 innings - they were all allowed to leave before the game was over.

    Please provide the facts of the conditioning issues. 

    Please provide the facts of him having a bad attitude in the clubhouse - with teammates, coaches and FO.  I am not talking about your opinions or media opinions.  I want the facts - I want stories or incidents of him having trouble or a bad attitude with any of his teammates, coaches and/or FO.  I think how he acts with them is all that matters.  He doesn't have to be media friendly or be a nice guy. 

    This entire Beckett crap is ridiculous.  It is all based on opinions and it has gotten out of control.  Do he seem like a nice guy to me?  No - not at all and I don't care.  I care that he goes out and pitches and that is it.  I could care less if he talks to the media - that is not important at all.

    Speaking of facts - look at some of the FACTS that people have provided regarding Beckett and his pitching stats this year.  He hasn't been as bad as you and the media wants people to believe. 

    While your comment was fun to read - it was all opinion - NOT FACTS. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    Conditioning: I have to go with the eye test on this one. I'm assuming a guy with a gut and a doublish chin isn't in shape. Honestly, it seems pretty fair. Not that he was ever ripped, but he carries a gut now - that is factual.

    Snitch comments:

    By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff

    FORT MYERS, Fla. — In an expletive-filled interview with WEEI.com, Josh Beckett claimed there were clubhouse "snitches" who revealed his misbehavior and the personal issues of manager Terry Francona to the media last fall.

    http://articles.boston.com/2012-02-27/sports/31104995_1_healer-clubhouse-josh-beckett

    He absolutely said snitch in the offseason, and commented he was still looking for him in ST, this was the first article that came out of google, plenty more exist. - facts.

    18 days - we agree

    Family first - I'm not familiar with Lester's comments, but it was the way Beckett said it. As if baseball being a priority was a joke, and said, to the reporters, "It's that important to all of YOU, not me." Of COURSE family comes first, NOBODY argues that. But he but his multi-million dollar job which provides for that family waaaaaaay down the list. - my opinion based on the fact of what he said. I guess that's 50/50

    Limo - Granted, totally speculation by me. But it's a fact about what Valentine said. It's a fact that beckett then took a limo. He COULD have avoided that situation, he did not.

    There are a fair amount of facts in there, and some opinion. Trying to be objective, which is hard when looking at what I wrote, but it seems more fact than opinion.

    Lester gets a pass from me because, as I said, I can deal with losing or not playing great. He hasn't done any of the things Beckett has. If you have a link to the family first thing, I'd be interested to read because i'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts he said it a very different fashion.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JN86. Show JN86's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]Conditioning: I have to go with the eye test on this one. I'm assuming a guy with a gut and a doublish chin isn't in shape. Honestly, it seems pretty fair. Not that he was ever ripped, but he carries a gut now - that is factual. Snitch comments: By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff FORT MYERS, Fla. — In an expletive-filled interview with WEEI.com , Josh Beckett claimed there were clubhouse "snitches" who revealed his misbehavior and the personal issues of manager Terry Francona to the media last fall. http://articles.boston.com/2012-02-27/sports/31104995_1_healer-clubhouse-josh-beckett He absolutely said snitch in the offseason, and commented he was still looking for him in ST, this was the first article that came out of google, plenty more exist. - facts. 18 days - we agree Family first - I'm not familiar with Lester's comments, but it was the way Beckett said it. As if baseball being a priority was a joke, and said, to the reporters, "It's that important to all of YOU, not me." Of COURSE family comes first, NOBODY argues that. But he but his multi-million dollar job which provides for that family waaaaaaay down the list. - my opinion based on the fact of what he said. I guess that's 50/50 Limo - Granted, totally speculation by me. But it's a fact about what Valentine said. It's a fact that beckett then took a limo. He COULD have avoided that situation, he did not. There are a fair amount of facts in there, and some opinion. Trying to be objective, which is hard when looking at what I wrote, but it seems more fact than opinion. Lester gets a pass from me because, as I said, I can deal with losing or not playing great. He hasn't done any of the things Beckett has. If you have a link to the family first thing, I'd be interested to read because i'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts he said it a very different fashion.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Okay my mistake - he said "snitch" - so you want him gone for the snitch comment, Pedoria said he was upset that someone was talking about what goes on in the clubhouse and totally agreed with everything Beckett said.  Why hasn't he been put through the ringers?  Guess cause he didn't use the word "snitch" - that is the difference.  Days off comment (which I agree probably wasn't the smartest), and because he puts his family first and baseball second.  Plus you have to admit - he is right.  Baseball is out of control here - it is NOT THE NORM.

    You did not provide any facts as to the conditioning issues and you did not provide any facts as to him being a problem in the clubhouse.  NO FACTS.  All you provided was an interview from Josh where you didn't like how he said things.  So let me get this right - cause he isn't friendly and possibly doesn't express himself in the best way - he is the root of the Red Sox problems?  Really!!

    And how has he "given up" or "quit" - I really want facts on that one.

    Plus your last paragraph is the best.  That is the entire problem.  Lester maybe is a nicer guy - other than they have both been experiencing the exact same thing - including last September.  Bascially you are bashing Beckett because he isn't as nice as Lester.  I have two best friends - they would both do anything in the world for you.  However the difference between the two is one has an outgoing personality and the other is more reserved and not as smooth in social situations.  With your analysis - I should not be friends with my second friend because he is not "as nice" as my first friend. 

    Whatever happened to this being about baseball.  If it was about baseball then the facts that people have provided in this thread about Josh's pitching shows he hasn't been pitching half as bad as media wants you to believe.  Several of his losses have been do to run support.

    And after last night game and "nice guy" Lester pitching - you must now agree that run support is important. 


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing : I appreciate your list - but I would like to know how these are facts. Where is the "fact" that he is out of shape.  Do we have the facts from the Red Sox where they say he is out of shape?  I haven't seen them.  If there is - can you please provide the link. Otherwise I think that is your opinion. I am not even sure if he used the word "snitch" - I do know he made some brief comments about the locker room.  He did say he "made mistakes" - but also said what happens in the clubhouse - stays in the clubhouse.  I actually support that.  They are at that park for most of the afternoon and night.  The clubhouse should be their private area - the media should NOT be in there.  After he made his statement - UNLESS SOME MEDIA person asked - he never brought it up again.  I wouldn't call that whining.  Again - seems like that is your opinion. "18 days off" - I am giving you that one - it is a fact.  I actually think Josh was discussing having a family now and baseball not being his top priority and it shouldn't be.  Lester said basically the exact same thing a couple of weeks ago - NOTHING was mention of that.  He said he is a father and husband first - that is what is most important to him.  When he leaves the park - he leaves everything that is going on at the park.  Top priority his family - AS IT SHOULD BE! I actually believe that several starting pitchers took limos - not just Beckett - but of course he was the only one that was written about.  Since they were only playing 2 innings - they were all allowed to leave before the game was over. Please provide the facts of the conditioning issues.  Please provide the facts of him having a bad attitude in the clubhouse - with teammates, coaches and FO.  I am not talking about your opinions or media opinions.  I want the facts - I want stories or incidents of him having trouble or a bad attitude with any of his teammates, coaches and/or FO.  I think how he acts with them is all that matters.  He doesn't have to be media friendly or be a nice guy.  This entire Beckett crap is ridiculous.  It is all based on opinions and it has gotten out of control.  Do he seem like a nice guy to me?  No - not at all and I don't care.  I care that he goes out and pitches and that is it.  I could care less if he talks to the media - that is not important at all. Speaking of facts - look at some of the FACTS that people have provided regarding Beckett and his pitching stats this year.  He hasn't been as bad as you and the media wants people to believe.  While your comment was fun to read - it was all opinion - NOT FACTS. 
    Posted by JN86[/QUOTE]

    i stopped reading after that first comment..honestly, unless you are blind or an idiot, this is why it isnt obvious to you..
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    pike...rule number of 1 of writing an factual/historical essay - a misrepresentation or falsity in the opening paragraph/thesis will disqualify the essay from serious consideration/high score...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheRedStain. Show TheRedStain's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    I don't live in New England anymore, so I don't get to keep up with the local TV and radio media, which may be a good thing.....I just came from reading "The Buzz" on this Globe site which showcased Felger's TV show dialogue congratulating his listeners for booing an injured Josh Beckett. I suspected that such sophomoric "fan" behavior was fueled by infantile "leadership" in the media and now I have the proof. At the risk of sounding "old-fashioned" (old school) I see the connection to the bad fan behavior and the trend toward sensationalism in mass media. Take the hate radio - the Rush Limbaughs of the world; I'm sure he sets a pattern for blabbermouths to incite hate through mis-information, riling up the listeners into a frenzy of mob mentality for everything the speaker decides to attack. There's the Fox "News" (Comedy) show featuring more inciteful blabbermouths (Bill O'Reilly, et al)  with their custumary "shut up!" and "turn off his mike!" Really? Is this now "news"?  We see this same bad behavior glorified in TV shows like "Jacka(zz)" and "Pranked" etc. in which the the audience squeals with glee whenever somebody gets their face slapped with a 2X4 or their scrotum assailed by a golf club. This slapstick schick may have been amusing back in the 1940s when the Three Stooges were making their primitive B&W films for children, but it certainly does not belong at a baseball game - our "National Pastime". There seems to be a downward spiral in which every movie must feature explosions, breaking glass, smashing cars and flattened skulls - the "video game mentality". Every song must be a rant against someone's character. Boxing, "the sweet science" has been replaced by professional "wrestling" featuring bats and chairs and MMA where participants are pounded into a bloddy pulp while lying on the canvass until they're knocked unconscious. Hockey games must devolve into a bare knuckle fight every 5 minutes to insure an audience. Auto racing must include spectacular crashes to keep the bored masses awake. Everything must be louder, faster, meaner, "badder" and less civilized to be accepted as "entertainment". Think of Beckett being booed for his back spasms as the villain in the squared circle hitting the hero with a folding chair. It seems that society as a whole is stooping rather than standing e/rect. None of that interests me. Beckett is a formerly great pitcher who is past his prime, which is no crime. Neither is his salary my concern. And Lackey? That guy was trying to pitch while needing Tommy John surgery - no wonder he wasn't any good! And for those who use the excuse that they get to hate/boo Beckett or anybody because they're "fat" or "out of shape" - there is a long line of great baseball players with "bad bodies" extending back to the King, Babe Ruth! Baseball isn't a beauty contest, people. I'd love to get a look at the anonomous posters who have the nerve to call Beckett and Papi "fat". In conclusion: either root for the team or go back to your video games. Play ball!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    Beckett is out of shape then so is Miguel Cabrera, Prince Fielder, CC, and a whole lot more. 
    This not hockey or BB where every player will be sporting a ripped stomach.

    If he passes the RS conditioning for himself then he is in condition.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Enough with Beckett bashing

    In Response to Re: Enough with Beckett bashing:
    [QUOTE]Beckett is out of shape then so is Miguel Cabrera, Prince Fielder, CC, and a whole lot more.  This not hockey or BB where every player will be sporting a ripped stomach. If he passes the RS conditioning for himself then he is in condition.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Hahaha

    Miguel Cabrera got dealt at a young age not just because he was on FLA. He was 24 and they werr worried about him breaking down, so they traded him early. Cabrera once played a full season in left. Plenty at third, and ate his way to first. Then they signed another fatty so he sidled back to third.

    Have you not heard the years of rumblings about CC's health? Interestingly, he also has back issues.

    Have you missed the questions about Prince's weight, ESPECIALLY in light of who his father is?

    Yes ALL THREE are in bad shape. ALL THREE have had to prove, and prove again that they could play well in SPITE of this. All three, by and large HAVE done just that. Think all three wouldn't perform better with some dietary discipline?

    Beckett has not.

    If you're point was that these guys are in shape, you're flat out wrong.

    If you were making the point that fat guys can still play, well, sure, there are always some. But there are more examples of fat guys cutting their own careers short because of a lack of conditioning.
     

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