Epstein leaves, price must be high

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    Beavis will be ready to step in if Theo leaves...

    No way on Starlin, but Gaza may be doable...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    Cafarto must be smoking something.
    Starlin Castro???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Did you see what the Marlins gave up for Ozzie? A couple of prospects.
    Just a dumb article.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high


    If the Cubs would do Garza for Lackey, I'd throw in Theo.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    I am a fan of Nick Cafardo, but the Globe columnist is delusional if he thinks the Cubs will trade 21-year-old All Star shortstop Starlin Castro for a general manager and an OLDER shortstop prospect in Jose Iglesias.

    I'm also a fan of Theo Epstein, but Cafardo may be overestimating the demand for the Boston general manager whose team has failed to win a postseason game since 2008. Cafardo writes of "the man you believe will turn your organization around." The Red Sox turn-around since the 2007 World Series title is not the turn-around sought by the Cubs.

    The real question is: How badly do the Red Sox want to retain Theo Epstein? Perhaps the Red Sox ownership would prefer to take a new direction and get out from under the final year of Epstein's contract.

    What are the relative current values of Boston GM Theo Epstein, Tampa Bay GM Andrew Friedman, Yankee GM Brian Cashman, Arizona GM Kevin Towers, Detroit GM David Dombrowski, St. Louis GM John Mozeliak, Milwaukee GM Doug Melvin, Philadelphia GM Ruben Amaro Jr. and Texas GM Jon Daniels?

    Where does Theo Epstein rank on that list? Assuming the other GMs are under contract for 2012, what would the Cubs be willing to surrender to acquire a general manager who has led his team into the 2011 postseason?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3992292. Show user_3992292's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    I like the idea of trading Lackey for Garza at the same timeTheo can leaves the Red Sox organization to join the Cubs. That will eliminate one problem from the Red Sox organization.  Now it is down to find another starting pitcher, SS, DH, and RF.  
    But I am sure that before Theo is able to join the Cubs, his first word is to tell the Cubs not to give away Garza or accept Lackey!!  I am not sure if that is call tampering.  

    Of course Larry L. would be a good fit GM cuz he is the one pulled one of the best trade in years (Beckett/Lowell for Rameriz).
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

       I wonder why the Cubs would even consider Theo for any position, let along be dumb enough to take some of his failures off of our hands along with him?


     To me since 2007 our club has been in obvious decline, now this year after all the fanfare of the preseason that decline is even accelerating. The only good news is now it's so obvious no one not even the staunchest fan, or owner, can any longer ignore it. 


     Still, even during these last few years of decline Theo has each year had a decent core team to start with.  More decent than many other GM's. Unlike many other GM's, he has also had a open check book to add to it. He as well has had no reason not to be able to do what the Yankee's GM seems able to do quite well each year when necessary, make mid course corrections.


     The results speak for themselves.  Theo like so many of his signings has been as miserable a failure.


     I say if the Cubs are interested in him we just try not to appear too happy......  Sure ask for some compensation... Maybe a couple of little league prospects from the Chicago area?



     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    Few thoughts:

    Epstein has never said he would not be interested in the Cubs job because it is potentially a lot more money. It doesn't mean his leaving is imminent but it does mean he hasn't dismissed the idea.

    The RS are unlikely to get into a bidding war over Epstein. They may well extend him to shut the noise up in terms of lame duck speculation next year if he stays but in the current set of circumstances I don't see them bidding to sway Epstein. They will want his full commitment first.

    If compensation is agreed to between the Cubs and RS, Nick is probably looking in the wrong place. It won't be guys on the field every day for the Cubs and it won't be them taking one of the RS uglier contracts of their hands IMO. It will be highly regarded prospects. How good those prospects are and how well they pan out ironically would be the job of Theo's staff to determine and pick correctly.

    Last thought. being a big market GM contrary to public belief is perhaps the hardest job in baseball. Yes you can spend big $$$ for needs but with that comes the likelihood of failed projections (Lackey-Crawford) that haunt you for years. Because of the budget you aren't really able to unload and reload, the expectation is to win now, win always. While it is seen as a luxury to be able to afford a highly sought after Type A FA, it is a dangerous luxury with profound consequences when it doesn't work, which BTW is the case over 50% of the time.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    The Cubs are a pretty stupid organization.  They might give up Garza or Castro and/or take Lackey to get Theo. Sox can only hope.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from KRomine. Show KRomine's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    At this point, I would take that Bartman kid that cost the Cubs the 2003 pennant in exchange for Theo!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Epstein leaves, price must be high:
    by Nick Cafardo/Boston Globe If the Cubs ask for and receive permission to speak to Theo Epstein, it must come with major trade provisions. The Red Sox need to ask for the moon in order to complete this transaction. We know that baseball is not like football, in which you can trade draft picks, but you’ll recall that the Jets received a No. 1 pick to allow Bill Belichick to go to the Patriots in 2000. Why should this be different? Why would the Red Sox just let Epstein go for a prospect or two like the White Sox recently did with the Marlins in the Ozzie Guillen deal? If you want Epstein, the man you believe will turn your organization around, you have to be willing to pay a steep price, just like the Patriots did. What can the Red Sox do? ■ In addition to Epstein, you trade, as some bloggers have suggested, John Lackey and the remainder of his contract to the Cubs. That would give the Cubs a Carlos Zambrano-Lackey tandem. Good luck, Theo. ■ Ask for shortstop Starlin Castro. Why not? Give them Jose Iglesias back if you must, but giving up Castro would hurt, and you have to make the Cubs hurt for wanting to take your GM. ■ Ask for pitcher Matt Garza. He’s the Cubs’ best righthander who is American League East battle-tested. Unreasonable? Why be reasonable? Our sources say that Cubs owner Tom Ricketts believes that Epstein is the No. 1 target, the person who can turn the Cubs into what the Red Sox became after Epstein took over in 2003. There are many possibilities going on with Epstein. Could Sox ownership be mulling a contract extension for him so he won’t even think about the Cubs? Are they trying to determine appropriate compensation if they let Epstein leave? If he is leaving, where does that leave the managerial search? Would it be proper to allow Epstein to begin the process if his status is up in the air, or would Larry Lucchino and/or Ben Cherington, who is Epstein’s likely successor, start the process independent of Epstein until he decides whether he’s staying or leaving? There have been a lot of mixed signals coming from Yawkey Way. Sox chairman Tom Werner has been steadfast in his belief that Epstein isn’t going anywhere. Werner repeatedly has said in public that Epstein is under contract. We haven’t heard much from John Henry. Would the owner grant permission and let Epstein explore? Would he let Epstein go, feeling a lot of money has been spent without much of a return? Does he want to keep Epstein employed as the general manager? And where does Lucchino stand in all of this? We know that he and Epstein have not been buddies for a long time. Lucchino would not shed a tear if Epstein leaves. So it appears the front office/ownership is torn about whether to even allow Epstein to speak with the Cubs. There’s also the scenario in which Epstein gets kicked into a presidency role, but what sense would that make? Epstein’s value is as a general manager, not a president. Lucchino is one of the best presidents in baseball and a worthy commissioner candidate when Bud Selig hangs it up. So, why would the Red Sox ownership even consider such a move? The other interesting aspect is that all the public comments Epstein has made since the season ended made him sound like a man who was staying to fix the mess. Those comments would sound quite disingenuous if he is interested in pursuing a job with the Cubs. Would he want to bail on Boston, his boyhood team, at its lowest point since he took over? Or would he want to oversee the fixing? If he did pursue the Cubs job, he always could spin it like Francona spun it: the Red Sox need a new voice. Or he could say the Sox need a new direction and that his way isn’t working anymore and that he’s leaving for the good of the organization. There are many ways to spin. What’s been bothersome is that Epstein never has indicated that he isn’t considering the Cubs job. When Werner was being rumored to be a potential buyer of the Dodgers, he said emphatically that he would not be interested in buying them now or in the future. And the story died. Epstein never has made that comment concerning the Cubs. And who knows whether the Orioles or Angels are also in play, with vacancies at the general manager position. As we mentioned, if Epstein leaves, look for Lucchino to recapture some of the power he had to oversee baseball operations. Cherington would be the likely choice, though Lucchino always could entertain an outsider if he indeed had the power to hire. But if Epstein does depart, the price the Cubs must pay needs to be high. While Epstein’s work has taken a hit in Boston, he’s considered one of the best baseball minds outside of Boston. Just as Belichick was considered one of the best football minds when the Patriots handed over what it took to pry him loose from his contract with the Jets.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Interesting thoughts, I agree the Cubs are one team we could possibly unload Lackey to.  Guys like Soriano, Garza and possibly even Zambrano could help our cause with the right bunch around them.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    "While it is seen as a luxury to be able to afford a highly sought after Type A FA, it is a dangerous luxury with profound consequences when it doesn't work, which BTW is the case over 50% of the time".  
      If signing Type A FA's to multi year hundred million dollar contracts does not work out over 50% of the time then one would have to assume that Theo must feel he is smart enough to beat those odds.

      It certainly appears to me that he either isn't smart enough, or is just plain unlucky.  Either way the Red Sox are now saddled with the "profound ( negative ) consequences" of Theo's failures.
      I don't know of many other places except in politics where Theo's dismal failure rate would keep him employed.   It's time for him to go..........
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    Send Epstein and Wastefied to the Cubs. Epstein and Crawford and Lackey befit a guy with zero baseball background but a father and grandfather in the entertainment business who knew Werner.

    They should pay to run this sunk cost idiot out of town.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    There isn't a snowflakes chance in Hades the Cubs are picking up Lackey's contract to get Epstein, let alone giving back anything of worth.  That's not just a bad idea, .. it's delusional.

    And, Epstein would be a fool to take a pitcher with a huge contract that will hamstring his budget for the next three years, thereby impeding his ability to get pitchers that can actually pitch whether they're an overbearing morons or not.

    A GM usually gets a window of about five, six years to have an impact on the club. Epstein is not about to waste half that window to revisit one of his worst FA signings.  Even in the NL central Lackey will likely barely be able to keep his head above water.  And, since the Cubs already had Milton Bradley, I can't see them taking the pitching version of him.

    I don't know what Cafardo is smoking but I hope he's not operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment while doing so.  
     
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    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    The latest rumor mentioned on ESPN Rumor was Theo/Lackey for Zambrano - bad contract for bad contract.  I'd do that in a min, at least we can get out from underneith it in just one year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    Dave Cameron at FanGraphs opines on what Theo Epstein is worth:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-is-theo-epstein-worth/
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    Epstein is worth eating money to get rid of him. Find him a job on 2.5 men, Werner.
     
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    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high:
       I wonder why the Cubs would even consider Theo for any position, let along be dumb enough to take some of his failures off of our hands along with him?  To me since 2007 our club has been in obvious decline, now this year after all the fanfare of the preseason that decline is even accelerating. The only good news is now it's so obvious no one not even the staunchest fan, or owner, can any longer ignore it.   Still, even during these last few years of decline Theo has each year had a decent core team to start with. 
    Posted by tetonman50


    Exactly.  Why the Cubs look at the current situation in Boston and say "that is the guy we need" can only be explained by saying, "that is why they're the Cubs." 

    Back to back 3rd place finishes and a number of awful moves.  The Cubs have actually won a division title since the Red Sox last won a division title.  That is funny.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yukon-Cornelius. Show Yukon-Cornelius's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high:
    Send Epstein and Wastefied to the Cubs. Epstein and Crawford and Lackey befit a guy with zero baseball background but a father and grandfather in the entertainment business who knew Werner. They should pay to run this sunk cost idiot out of town.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul


    I don't have a problem with anyone saying Theo has to go because I agree with that idea, but pointing to his father and grandfather as a reason why is absurd.  Most of the armchair GMs here don't have a "baseball background" either but they're all damned sure they can do better than Theo.  Maybe they can, maybe they can't but it has nothing to do with who their fathers are...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high:
    Send Epstein and Wastefied to the Cubs. Epstein and Crawford and Lackey befit a guy with zero baseball background but a father and grandfather in the entertainment business who knew Werner. They should pay to run this sunk cost idiot out of town.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul


    You learn something all the time.  See I thought they made Theo the GM because of what he did as Director of Baseball Operations for San Diego.  And I'd always thought he got to interview for the Red Sox job because he knew Lucchino from when Lucchino was his boss at San Diego.

    But I'm sure that you're correct and it was all because of Theo's father knwoing Werner.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    It has everything to do with who their fathers were. Nepotism is not the way to run a business, even though it is a routine approach for most businesses. 

    The issue isn't idle time pundits claiming to know better. The issue is hiring people based upon proven baseball experience for the job at issue. Ownership needs to reexamine how they approach the business and make the essential improvements and adjustments. Getting rid of Epstein should be #1 on the list. I was no big fan of Tito, but he certainly didn't assemble Crawford and Lackey and a cast of characters that did not remotely get it done for the last 3 years. It's one thing to lose to the Rangers in a close ALCS. But it is another thing entirely to spend a fortune over 3 years and have one ALDS sweep to show for it. That is the GM's responsiblity, because modern MLBPA baseball leaves very little options for a manager who has a cast of losers.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high:
    Epstein is worth eating money to get rid of him. Find him a job on 2.5 men, Werner.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul


    For this attitude I hope we get to keep him.

    Someone either "pays" to get him, or we keep him.  I doubt we just allow him to leave, or rather, I would never just let him leave.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yukon-Cornelius. Show Yukon-Cornelius's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high:
    It has everything to do with who their fathers were. Nepotism is not the way to run a business, even though it is a routine approach for most businesses.  The issue isn't idle time pundits claiming to know better. The issue is hiring people based upon proven baseball experience for the job at issue. Ownership needs to reexamine how they approach the business and make the essential improvements and adjustments. Getting rid of Epstein should be #1 on the list. I was no big fan of Tito, but he certainly didn't assemble Crawford and Lackey and a cast of characters that did not remotely get it done for the last 3 years. It's one thing to lose to the Rangers in a close ALCS. But it is another thing entirely to spend a fortune over 3 years and have one ALDS sweep to show for it. That is the GM's responsiblity, because modern MLBPA baseball leaves very little options for a manager who has a cast of losers.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul


    Disagree.  If you look up the word nepotism it emphasizes favoritism without merit.  As DirtyWater pointed out, Theo's background with San Diego qualified him for the Boston GM position.  Had he been an abject failure in San Diego, I think you could argue nepotism, but I don't think you can point to that in hindsight.  Think of it this way - if you ran a business and had to a decision to hire two similarly qualified people, one of whom was either a friend/aquaintance or a relative, and the other person was not known to you at all, wouldn't it make sense to choose the known quantity over the unknown quantity?

    Now given Theo's track record in Boston, you now COULD make the nepotism argument (especially concerning his FA aquisitions) if Henry had to make this hire again, but you can't do it in retrospect when Theo's previous baseball background was perfectly acceptable.  IMHO.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high

    In Response to Re: Epstein leaves, price must be high:
    Send Epstein and Wastefied to the Cubs. Epstein and Crawford and Lackey befit a guy with zero baseball background but a father and grandfather in the entertainment business who knew Werner. They should pay to run this sunk cost idiot out of town.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul


    Right. Wasn't his dad on Welcome Back Kotter?
     
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