ESPN Power Rankings Released

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    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]Hubris  -  excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance Are you inferring that Red Sox fans are full of "excessive pride, self-confidence, and arrogance. I  see that opposite in the few months that I have been reading this forum. In fact. I see the opposite.  Is your moniker named to approach a Red Sox forum with disdain of their typical fan? If so then you are wrong. Most posters here are the opposite of "hubris". Sounds like your moniker is a misnomer.
    Posted by 6k42lt913c[/QUOTE]

    Watch out, 6k42lt913c; inspector Javert is looking for you.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In response to "Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released": [QUOTE]Hubris  -  excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance Are you inferring that Red Sox fans are full of "excessive pride, self-confidence, and arrogance. I  see that opposite in the few months that I have been reading this forum. In fact. I see the opposite.  Is your moniker named to approach a Red Sox forum with disdain of their typical fan? If so then you are wrong. Most posters here are the opposite of "hubris". Sounds like your moniker is a misnomer. Posted by 6k42lt913c[/QUOTE] You mean to say imply, not infer. They are quite different. And, Please-Pass-The-Hubris is connotative of something else/more. But, kudos on successfully utilizing the copy-and-paste feature in conjunction with an on-line dictionary. Hail to thee!
     
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    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    So who exactly has excessive pride, self confidence, or arrogance? You didn't respond. Are you directing that at Yankee fans, your mother-in-law, or your boss at work? Surely you are directing "Pass-the-Hubris" at someone?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    oooooh great ENTERTAINMENT pike !!!  I live for this kind of back and forth between two intellectuals. You provide so much of the very thing you rail against.... entertainment.

    Bravo!  Give us More!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jumpshotking13. Show jumpshotking13's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    I would have the halos 1 and tigers 2... yankess are good, but are old and will break down. sox will finish third in the east.. i think the rays are gonna take the division, they look pretty filthy
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]Pretty much what Cafardo or someone like him said.  The Sox 6th in the AL behind Yankees, Rangers, Angels, Tigers, and Rays.  To be honest, I think that is fair given that the Sox bullpen currently strikes terror into the hearts of the RSN.  Hitting and fielding look fine.  Starting pitching might be fine even with Bard and Doubront in the rotation.  But the bullpen looks horrible right now.  Aceves might end up pitching 150 innings all from the bullpen and a new world's record. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    I think Pujols and Wilson will find SoCal a lot easier to play in than StLouie and Arlington...the summers in both those places are brutal.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    Greetings Pass-the-hubris-please I like moon  just fine but you'ld think he would at least give us points for not throwing AJ 30 times Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE] Hey Zac, LOL! Yeah, I realized my neglect to mention AJ Burnett just after posting, but I did not edit because of Moon's comment of addition by subtraction, which was exactly my tack regarding Jorge Posada, as well as the year-long catching/DH soap opera. I, too, like reading Moon's posts. Nothing personal toward him, I simply agreed with you that the post was over par to his usual game. Specifically, if everyone is a question mark - I believe the only Yankees he did not list or mention were Robinson Cano and CC Sabathia - then it must follow that either 1. No one is really a question mark, since the degree of concern parameter is nearly all inclusive Or 2. The Yankees as currently constituted parallels a team such as the Houston Astros. Neither of which appear to be accurate depictions of a team almost identical to the division winner just last season.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    There are different levels of "questions" or concerns.

    If you Yankee fans really are not at all concerned about ARod's hip and steady decline, Tex's 3 year slide, and Jeter's horrible fielding and declining offense, then fine. Keep your heads deep in the sand.

    I'm sure if the Sox signed a 38 year old starter from a weak division, in a weaker league, pitching in huge parks to be their savior, you'd call it a question mark.

    I never stated the level of the Yankee questions. I actually said that some were not big, but some were moderate. Of course, the Sox have several big and moderate questions. The Sox now have an added closer question since my last post.

    You guys are acting like I projected us to have more wins than the yanks. I did not. I projected the Yanks to win more than us even if we have just a normal amount of injuries.

    Martin's 4 horrible offensive months in 2011 wasn't a concern? He can't possibly repeat that or get worse?

    Robertson looked great last year, no doubt! I wish he was on the Sox, but the guy has really spiked from his past years. Even if he was on the Sox, I'd say he was a question mark. I'm calling Bard a question mark and he's had 3 straight good years!

    Let the real games begin.



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    There are also strengths. Reducing the level for establishing legitimate concerns/question marks to simultaneously include players occupying positions of strength is, in and of itself, contradictory and, as such, meaningless for the sake of comparison. For example, David Robertson was arguably the best set-up-man in baseball last season. 66.2 innings pitched, 1.08 ERA, only 40 hits, one HR allowed, 100 Ks. Since his debut in the second half of the 2008 season, he has consistently exhibited one of the highest K/9 in baseball. Yet, you listed him as a question mark due to his improvement in WHIP from the previous season, his career high, even though his WHIP was lower in the two seasons prior to that one. Concomitantly, you assert question marks for players who showed a statistical decline. Therefore, both an improvement and a decline are evidence to you indicating a concern or question mark. Hmmm? To make another point, consider Robinson Cano - depending upon which array utilized by which company of leading sabermatricians, Cano was defensively one of the best second baseman in all of baseball. Yet, a competing company ranked him as one of the worst defensive second basemen last season. Still, a third company ranked Cano in the middle of the pack. Defensive metrics are dubious at best. Even year to year, the same player can rate near the top and then near the very bottom. Derek Jeter's dWAR was minus or - 1.3 last season. Not very good. But, his dWAR was an identical -1.3 in 1997 as well. Jeter hit .297 last season. Not shabby. He also hit .327 after the all-star break. His overall OBP was .355. Robinson Cano's was .349. Perhaps, you should have included Cano as a question mark too? Jeter's second half numbers: .327/.383/.428/.811 Jeter's career OBP is .383. His worst season was .340 in 2010. For comparison, Carl Crawford's career OBP is .333 with a single season high of .364. I've listened to those who argue that Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball history (Rob Neyer). As a former player and coach, I maintain that Jeter was and is still sure handed, has a strong arm, is lanky and athletic at 6'3", comes in on slow rollers marvelously, throws off balance accurately, handles bad throws from catcher to outfielders as well as anyone, makes incredibly difficult tags around the bag, feeds the ball to second effortlessly, goes backwards on fly balls as well as anyone, and most importantly with the game on the line, no one is holding their breath when a grounder is hit in his direction. He consistently makes big plays in big moments and does not botch anything routine. And, he is death to base runners in a rundown or pickle. His weakness is and always has been balls hit to his left. It is not speed; he just has never read the ball well to that side and consequently gets inadequate jumps. He has also lost a step to his right over the years, but that used to be a strength as well.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]There are also strengths. Reducing the level for establishing legitimate concerns/question marks to simultaneously include players occupying positions of strength is, in and of itself, contradictory and, as such, meaningless for the sake of comparison. For example, David Robertson was arguably the best set-man in baseball last season. 66.2 innings pitched, 1.08 ERA, only 40 hits, one HR allowed, 100 Ks. Since his debut in the second half of the 2008 season, he has consistently exhibited one of the highest K/9 in baseball. Yet, you listed him as a question mark due to his improvement in WHIP from the previous season, his career high, even though his WHIP was lower in the two seasons prior to that one. Concomitantly, you assert question marks for players who showed a statistical decline. Therefore, both an improvement and a decline are evidence to you indicating a concern or question mark. Hmmm? To make another point, consider Robinson Cano - depending upon which array utilized by which company of leading sabermatricians, Cano was defensively one of the best second baseman in all of baseball. Yet, a competing company ranked him as one of the worst defensive second basemen last season. Still, a third company ranked Cano in the middle of the pack. Defensive metrics are dubious at best. Even year to year, the same player can rate near the top and then near the very bottom. Derek Jeter's dWAR was minus or - 1.3 last season. Not very good. But, his dWAR was an identical -1.3 in 1997 as well. Jeter hit .297 last season. Not shabby. He also hit .327 after the all-star break. His overall OBP was .355. Robinson Cano's was .349. Perhaps, you should have included Cano as a question mark too? Jeter's second half numbers: .327/.383/.428/.811 Jeter's career OBP is .383. His worst season was .340 in 2010. For comparison, Carl Crawford's career OBP is .333 with a single season high of .364. I've listened to those who argue that Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball history (Rob Neyer). As a former player and coach, I maintain that Jeter was and is still sure handed, has a strong arm, is lanky and athletic at 6'3", comes in on slow rollers marvelously, throws off balance accurately, handles bad throws from catcher to outfielders as well as anyone, makes incredibly difficult tags around the bag, feeds the ball to second effortlessly, goes backwards on fly balls as well as anyone, and most importantly with the game on the line, no one is holding their breath when a grounder is hit in his direction. He consistently makes big plays in big moments and does not botch anything routine. And, he is death to base runners in a rundown or pickle. His weakness is and always has been balls hit to his left. It is not speed; he just has never read the ball well to that side and consequently gets inadequate jumps. He has also lost a step to his right over the years, but that used to be a strength as well.
    Posted by Pass-the-hubris-please[/QUOTE]

    Nice post, hube...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In response to "Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released": [QUOTE]So who exactly has excessive pride, self confidence, or arrogance? You didn't respond. Are you directing that at Yankee fans, your mother-in-law, or your boss at work? Surely you are directing "Pass-the-Hubris" at someone? Posted by 6k42lt913c[/QUOTE] Perhaps you would be better served to discuss such questions with kimsaysthis. I prefer topics regarding baseball.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    There are also strengths. Reducing the level for establishing legitimate concerns/question marks to simultaneously include players occupying positions of strength is, in and of itself, contradictory and, as such, meaningless for the sake of comparison.

    Of course the Yanks have plenty of strengths. You keep pretending I picked them to finish behind the Sox. I projected them with the most wons in the AL. I also raised some valid concerns or questions.

    For example, David Robertson was arguably the best set-up-man in baseball last season. 66.2 innings pitched, 1.08 ERA, only 40 hits, one HR allowed, 100 Ks. Since his debut in the second half of the 2008 season, he has consistently exhibited one of the highest K/9 in baseball. Yet, you listed him as a question mark due to his improvement in WHIP from the previous season, his career high, even though his WHIP was lower in the two seasons prior to that one. 

    If I projected his 2012 season, I would think he'd have a solid one, but the fact that he is 2 years removed from being awful is something to be concerned about. Bard had 3 straight good/great years, and many yank fans consider him a question mark. 

    Concomitantly, you assert question marks for players who showed a statistical decline. Therefore, both an improvement and a decline are evidence to you indicating a concern or question mark. Hmmm?

    I wouldn't label Robertson a major concern, and they have Soriano as well, so the pen is not an issue like it is for the Sox. Even if Mo declines, the yanks should be OK there.

    To make another point, consider Robinson Cano - depending upon which array utilized by which company of leading sabermatricians, Cano was defensively one of the best second baseman in all of baseball. Yet, a competing company ranked him as one of the worst defensive second basemen last season. Still, a third company ranked Cano in the middle of the pack. Defensive metrics are dubious at best. Even year to year, the same player can rate near the top and then near the very bottom. 

    Cano is awesome. He is not a question mark.

    Derek Jeter's dWAR was minus or - 1.3 last season. Not very good. But, his dWAR was an identical -1.3 in 1997 as well. Jeter hit .297 last season. Not shabby. He also hit .327 after the all-star break. His overall OBP was .355. Robinson Cano's was .349. Perhaps, you should have included Cano as a question mark too?

    See above. Look, Jeter had worse numbers than many SSs last year and is a year older. He is certainly a question mark and is one of the worst fielders in MLB right now. His range is pathetic. We can agree to disagree, but if you really think I am all wet to call him a question mark, you are not being objective.

    Jeter's second half numbers: .327/.383/.428/.811

    Jeter's first half numbers: .270/.330/.353/.683

    My guess is he comes out somewhere in the middle and coupled with his horrific fielding, he's overall bottom tier now. I could be wrong. The guy has heart and pride.

    Jeter's career OBP is .383. His worst season was .340 in 2010. For comparison, Carl Crawford's career OBP is 
    .333 with a single season high of .364.

    Did I ever defend CC? I called him a glorified platoon player whose contract will cripple us for 7 years. Using a 38 year old's career numbers to try and impress me is not going to work.

    I've listened to those who argue that Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball history (Rob Neyer). As a former player and coach, I maintain that Jeter was and is still sure handed, has a strong arm, is lanky and athletic at 6'3", comes in on slow rollers marvelously, throws off balance accurately, handles bad throws from catcher to outfielders as well as anyone, makes incredibly difficult tags around the bag, feeds the ball to second effortlessly, goes backwards on fly balls as well as anyone, and most importantly with the game on the line, no one is holding their breath when a grounder is hit in his direction. He consistently makes big plays in big moments and does not botch anything routine. And, he is death to base runners in a rundown or pickle.

    He's great at relay throws....whoop-dee- doo!

    His weakness is and always has been balls hit to his left. It is not speed; he just has never read the ball well to that side and consequently gets inadequate jumps. He has also lost a step to his right over the years, but that used to be a strength as well.

    He never had good range, and not he "lost a step"... hmmm....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]There are different levels of "questions" or concerns. If you Yankee fans really are not at all concerned about ARod's hip and steady decline, Tex's 3 year slide, and Jeter's horrible fielding and declining offense, then fine. Keep your heads deep in the sand. I'm sure if the Sox signed a 38 year old starter from a weak division, in a weaker league, pitching in huge parks to be their savior, you'd call it a question mark. I never stated the level of the Yankee questions. I actually said that some were not big, but some were moderate. Of course, the Sox have several big and moderate questions. The Sox now have an added closer question since my last post. You guys are acting like I projected us to have more wins than the yanks. I did not. I projected the Yanks to win more than us even if we have just a normal amount of injuries. Martin's 4 horrible offensive months in 2011 wasn't a concern? He can't possibly repeat that or get worse? Robertson looked great last year, no doubt! I wish he was on the Sox, but the guy has really spiked from his past years. Even if he was on the Sox, I'd say he was a question mark. I'm calling Bard a question mark and he's had 3 straight good years! Let the real games begin.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    More typical moondrivel.

    Robertson is returning to a role he has excelled in while bard is attempting to become a starter, a role he has failed in as a professional.

    Stick to posting stats.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    What did Power Rankings do for the Sox last year? Who cares.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    Where's Jose Tavares when you really need him?
    Cool
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    It appears that Smelly/Law09 have nothing better to do on opening day than bump old threads.

    Thread bump.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    I am going to do my best to give you my perspective on these issues.

    1) Phil Hughes the 3rd starter?
       I get the feeling that if a Sox pitcher coming off a 5.79 ERA and 1.49 WHIP was going to be our 3rd starter, TBINFL would be laughing something silly.

    You are right, Babe might be laughing but that really doesn't impact what actually happens on the field. I fully expect a good to very good year from Hughes. I think the lesson has been learned about staying in shape. He has had an excellent spring. FTR - The Yankee rotation is CC and 4 other capbable to very good pitchers. Who turns out to be #2 & #5 once the playoffs come will constantly change during the year.  

    2) Can Freddy Garcia and Ivan Nova repeat 2011's successes?
       I'd bet one doesn't.

    I am more inclined to lean towards Nova hitting a bump or two than Garcia. Freddy is an experienced pitcher and knows what he is doing except when he faces Boston. I think Nova will be okay though once the summer rolls along.

    3) Can two of these guys really fill out the back end of the pen in a positive way?
    Clay Rapada, DJ Mitchell, David Phelps, and Adam Warren sound so much better than Morales, Albers, Bowden, and Tazawa... not!

    The backend of the pen has some good but umproven arms. I don't think it will impact the regular season, especially considering the depth of the rotation if Andy actually makes it back all the way and Pineda is given the time to heal.

    4) Can players at these ages really keep healthy every year?
    Rivera    42
    Ibanez   40 (in June)
    Jeter      38 (in June)
    Kuroda  37
    ARod      37 (in July)
    Garcia   35
    Jones    35 (in April)
    I wouldn't bet on continuing good health of all of these guys.

    The fact is that they have not been healthy for a couple of years and have spent significant time on the DL list. A-Rod only played in 99 games last year and the Yanks still won 97 games.  Jeter also spent several weeks on the DL list and then came back very strong. The Yankee payroll buys depth, even if it is a bit on the old side. Chavez playing 3B for a couple of weeks just in case is not a bad thing.


    5) Will Swisher continue his decline?
    Tough call.

    What decline? He had a terrible start to last seaosn and then went crazy. Plus he is in a contract year. Don't be shocked if you get 30 & 100 from Swish. The man has heart.

    6) Will the Yankee catcher repeat in underperforming vs the Sox catcher as they did in 2011? 6B) Will Martin have 4 horrible months again in 2012?
    Martin in 2011:
    April: .963
    May:  .680
    June: .515
    July:  .570
    Aug:  .932
    Sept: .657

    Martin is a good question, but I don't see NY expecting Carlton Fisk numbers from him. If he has two good offensive months and plays A.S caliber glove and signal calling, NY will be just fine.


    7) Will Jeter be outhit by the Sox SS again? 7B) Will Jeter continue having one of the worst UZR ranking and range numbers by a MLB SS?

    Why does this even matter? Personally, I am betting a typical Jeter year. Tell me, how did Bostons S.S. compare to Jeter from mid June to the end of the year? Again, he is not Jeter of "98", but you know what you will get from him. He is as tough an athlete as there is in the game. You know he has plenty of game winning hits on his stick still. Plus he has unburdened himself of Minka. Look at his numbers once he kicked her to the curb. FTR - I could care less about UZR rankings. I don't think metrics tell the whole story.

    8) Is it OK to call a 4 straight year decline in OPS a decline?
    Teixeira: .963> .962> .948> .846> .835

    Now this scares me to no end & I agree with you. Tex says that he has learned his lesson and will look to drive the ball more and situationally hit to the left side of the field. If he can actually pull this off, he can put up MVP numbers. But saying is a lot easier than actually doing. This is a key component to NY's success - time will tell. He is still a slick gove.

    9) Is it OK to call a second player with the same steak "in decline"?
    ARod:  1.067> .965> .933> .847> .823

    A-rod, as you say, is in decline. No one can dispute that and is certainly a concern. The question is durability more than anything else. Even a declining A-Rod will hit 35 HR's and 120 RBI's if he plays 130 + games. The procedure he had seems to have done Kobe right. A lot of scouts are saying Big Dopey still has a couple of monster seasons in him. And if that happens, watch out.

    10) Was Grandy's 2011 a fluke? He nearly doubled his 2010 HR & RBI totals last year. 10B) Are the Yankee fans calling for a Jacoby "return to reality" saying the same about Curtis? 
    I don't know, but I doubt it.

    Not sure why we are comparing Grandy with Els. They both had MVP type years and I expect the same from both. Scouts say that Grandy is one of the smarter ballplayers in the league and will continue to learn and improve against LH pitching. He is custom made for Yankee stadium. Yankee fans who think last year was a fluke for Els is just professing wishful thinking. Last years numbers are exactly what most scouts expected from Grandy as far as power numbers are concerned since the trade was first made.

    11) Soriano? Robertson? Logan?

    Logan? - agreed. Not the best situational lefty. Soriano and Robertson - best 7th, 8th inning men in the game. I expect a monster year from both. Robertson is everything you could ask for in a set-up man. Totally fearless. Joba's tramplojine accident will hurt the bullpen to a degree. There are a lot of arms in the minors.

    12) Did the promise Gardner held in 2010 lose some of its luster?

    For me - yes. His speed was there, but I was not impressed with some of his baseball acumen. He should be bunting more often. And sometimes he looks too much for the walk and is not aggressive enough at the box. Also has to learn how to read pitchers moves better. In the beginning of the season, his success % stealing was terrible. Thankfully it improved during the course of the year. But he does need to take his game to the next level of growth.

    Maybe all of these aren't "big questions", but the Yanks certainly have plenty of moderate questions.

    All teams have ?. If we learned anything from last year, it's that there are no guarantees with baseball paper odds. Just cause you are favored means zip because there are 29 other teams who want the samething that you do.

    My only prediction is that NY will compete for the division title.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    jesseyeric, thanks for the thoughful and constructive  response. I can't say I disagree with anything you said. The Yanks are a formidable opponent indeed.

    On Swisher: He's only 31 and a half, so my mention of decline might be pushing it. Yes, he had a nice 2nd half, but his HRs did go down from 29 in 2010 & 2009 to 23 in 2011. His OPS dipped about 60-70 points as well. He's not much of a concern and I wish he was our RF'er. (Scratch him off my list.)

    On Jeter's fielding: He does throw well and has good instincts. He makes the plays right at him, but from a MLb SS, I expect much more. His range is horrible, and I don't need UZR to tell me that. (But, it does back up my opinion.)

    My remark about Grangy and Jacoby was aimed at those Yankee fans that assume Ells will decline (I happen to agree.). I was just pointing out that using their logic, one could conclude that Grandy will as well.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]There are also strengths. Reducing the level for establishing legitimate concerns/question marks to simultaneously include players occupying positions of strength is, in and of itself, contradictory and, as such, meaningless for the sake of comparison. 

    Of course the Yanks have plenty of strengths. 

    You've missed the point.  The fact that it is the Yankees, for the purpose of understanding in this case, is incidental.  Do you not recognize the contradition identified in the paragraph above?

    You keep pretending I picked them to finish behind the Sox. 

    I pretend nothing, and I have made no such claim.  I simply noted a false dicotomy with respect to your reasoning in this particular instance.  

    I projected them with the most wons in the AL. 

    Again, not the point.   

    I also raised some valid concerns or questions. 

    This is the point of argument.  The aforementioned contradiction in reasoning quite necessarily dismisses any validity for your claims.  Put another way, a pitcher who fashioned an ERA+ of 410 cannot be projected as both a strength and a question mark.  It begs for a more coherent methodology.  That which can be asserted without proof also requires none for refutation, rendering comparision meaningless. 
      
    For example, David Robertson was arguably the best set-up-man in baseball last season. 66.2 innings pitched, 1.08 ERA, only 40 hits, one HR allowed, 100 Ks. Since his debut in the second half of the 2008 season, he has consistently exhibited one of the highest K/9 in baseball. Yet, you listed him as a question mark due to his improvement in WHIP from the previous season, his career high, even though his WHIP was lower in the two seasons prior to that one.  

    If I projected his 2012 season, I would think he'd have a solid one, but the fact that he is 2 years removed from being awful is something to be concerned about. Bard had 3 straight good/great years, and many yank fans consider him a question mark.  

    Once more, if you project Robertson to have a solid year, then he should not also be a question mark.  Hedging your bets by wagering on both sides of an issue is by definition no bet at all.

    Moreover, Robertson has never been awful.  Review his statistics again.  The only blemish -  ERA his rookie season; however, if you take the time to consider his game logs, you will find that he pitched in only 25 ball games for a total of 30.1 innings that season, of which he had only one awful outing against Baltimore, giving up 5 runs in 1/3 of an inning.  He did his job in 20 of his 25 appearances.

    Furthermore, since being called up, no other reliever in baseball has entered more games with the bases loaded and no outs than David Robertson, who has struck out 270 batters in 202 innings pitched and has compiled an overall record of 14-6. 

    As for Daniel Bard, he is only a question mark as a ML starter, not a set-up man; however, he does have a poor career record of 5-13 and has been dismal in save situations, blowing a horrendous 15 saves in 20 opportunities.  Still, he is one of the best set up men in the game today.

    Concomitantly, you assert question marks for players who showed a statistical decline. Therefore, both an improvement and a decline are evidence to you indicating a concern or question mark. Hmmm? 

    I wouldn't label Robertson a major concern, and they have Soriano as well, so the pen is not an issue like it is for the Sox.  Even if Mo declines, the yanks should be OK there. 

    If the Yankee bullpen will be ok, then there goes your argument for David Robertson, Mariano Rivera, and the back of the bullpen as concerns/questionmarks.  Especially, considering Joba Chamberlain, Pedro Feliciano, and David Aardsma are all on the DL and may not pitch this season.

     To make another point, consider Robinson Cano - depending upon which array utilized by which company of leading sabermatricians, Cano was defensively one of the best second baseman in all of baseball. Yet, a competing company ranked him as one of the worst defensive second basemen last season. Still, a third company ranked Cano in the middle of the pack. Defensive metrics are dubious at best. Even year to year, the same player can rate near the top and then near the very bottom.  Cano is awesome. He is not a question mark. Derek Jeter's dWAR was minus or - 1.3 last season. Not very good. But, his dWAR was an identical -1.3 in 1997 as well. Jeter hit .297 last season. Not shabby. He also hit .327 after the all-star break. His overall OBP was .355. Robinson Cano's was .349. Perhaps, you should have included Cano as a question mark too? See above. Look, Jeter had worse numbers than many SSs last year and is a year older. He is certainly a question mark and is one of the worst fielders in MLB right now. His range is pathetic. We can agree to disagree, but if you really think I am all wet to call him a question mark, you are not being objective. Jeter's second half numbers: .327/.383/.428/.811 

    Jeter's first half numbers: .270/.330/.353/.683 

    When many fans were burying Jeter last season, including most Yankee fans, I posted here several times that his struggles were a matter of mechanics and not a sudden and precipitous drop in athleticism or bat speed.  Moreover, I predicted that Jeter would take off following his 3000th hit and would hit .300.  Well, if not for getting hit in the hand and wrist, he damn near made it.  I believe Jeter will hit .300 this season as well.   

    My guess is he comes out somewhere in the middle and coupled with his horrific fielding, he's overall bottom tier now. I could be wrong. The guy has heart and pride. 

    I have watched either live or on tape nearly every MLB game Derek Jeter has played since getting his first cup of coffee at the end of the 1995 regular season - and that is no exaggeration.  No major league team could afford to field a "horrific" defensive shortstop, much less the New York Yankees, a team that has missed the playoffs only once since Derek Jeter put on Pinstripes.  Your position is sheer hyperbole.  

    Don Zimmer, who has seen major league shortstops for the better part of sixty years, has stated on numerous occasions that Jeter is the best he has ever seen at coming in on ground balls and going back on fly balls.  Not adequate, not serviceable, not very good...but the best at moving north and south in fielding a batted ball.  Another opinion supporting that view is none other than Cal Ripkin. I will trust my eyes and playing/coaching experience in watching Derek Jeter play nearly every single inning of his career and the opinions of Zim and Ripkin - among others - rather than your exaggeration and the dubious outcomes offered by current defensive metrics.  Even the father of sabrematricians, Bill James, has issued caution regarding the numinous nature of defensive statistics, and specifically, more or less abandoning range factor nearly ten years ago.

    Jeter's career OBP is .383. His worst season was .340 in 2010. For comparison, Carl Crawford's career OBP is  .333 with a single season high of .364. 

    Did I ever defend CC? I called him a glorified platoon player whose contract will cripple us for 7 years. Using a 38 year old's career numbers to try and impress me is not going to work. 

    I never stated that you did.  Rather, I used a corner outfielder's career numbers in comparison to a shortstop's worst year for OBP to illustrate just how high Derek Jeter has set his own standards.  And, Carl Crawford is a four time all-star; he just may not be in the white-hot spotlight that is Boston and New York.  Platoon players do not garner 20 million dollar contracts.  Again, hyperbole on your part. And, if you are not impressed with Derek Jeter's career numbers, then I am beginning to question your sanity.  How many shortstops has Boston had since 1996?

    I've listened to those who argue that Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball history (Rob Neyer). As a former player and coach, I maintain that Jeter was and is still sure handed, has a strong arm, is lanky and athletic at 6'3", comes in on slow rollers marvelously, throws off balance accurately, handles bad throws from catcher to outfielders as well as anyone, makes incredibly difficult tags around the bag, feeds the ball to second effortlessly, goes backwards on fly balls as well as anyone, and most importantly with the game on the line, no one is holding their breath when a grounder is hit in his direction. He consistently makes big plays in big moments and does not botch anything routine. And, he is death to base runners in a rundown or pickle. 

    He's great at relay throws....whoop-dee- doo! 

    Is that really all you have taken from what I have written?  Thank you for the insightful response.

    His weakness is and always has been balls hit to his left. It is not speed; he just has never read the ball well to that side and consequently gets inadequate jumps. He has also lost a step to his right over the years, but that used to be a strength as well. 

    He never had good range, and not he "lost a step"... hmmm....
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Well, I have previously commented regarding Jeter's ability to field in movements north and south.  And, there are more than enough highlights of him making great plays to his right.  And, at 38, he has lost a step or more to his right.  Again, Jeter has always had a GLARING weakness defensively, and that is going to his left or toward second base.  And, unfortunately, that is a significant part of the game in fielding his position.   

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    There are also strengths. Reducing the level for establishing legitimate concerns/question marks to simultaneously include players occupying positions of strength is, in and of itself, contradictory and, as such, meaningless for the sake of comparison. 

    Of course the Yanks have plenty of strengths. 

    You've missed the point.  The fact that it is the Yankees, for the purpose of understanding in this case, is incidental.  Do you not recognize the contradition identified in the paragraph above?

    No, there is no contraditiction. Everything is not black and white. Some people can look at things from more than one angle. Obviously, you are not one of them.

    You keep pretending I picked them to finish behind the Sox. 

    I pretend nothing, and I have made no such claim.  I simply noted a false dicotomy with respect to your reasoning in this particular instance.  

    It's Ok to project a team with many questions or concerns to have the best record. It's not a false dicotomy. I never even said the Yanks had more major questions. I just pointed out 10 concerns (some could have been minor, moderate or major). 

    The Yanks have many questions. I feel they have about the same amount as us and pretty close to the same level of concern. They have a few more near sure bets than us. I didn't mention that when I posted my list, because I was addressing only the issue of concerns at that time. 

    I projected them with the most wons in the AL. 

    Again, not the point.   

    It's one of my points. Just because you don't think it is related, doesn't mean it isn't.

    I also raised some valid concerns or questions. 

    This is the point of argument.  The aforementioned contradiction in reasoning quite necessarily dismisses any validity for your claims.  Put another way, a pitcher who fashioned an ERA+ of 410 cannot be projected as both a strength and a question mark.  It begs for a more coherent methodology.  That which can be asserted without proof also requires none for refutation, rendering comparision meaningless. 

    You are arguing semantics. We could go on all day. I'll choose to just chalk you up as narrow minded.
      
    For example, David Robertson was arguably the best set-up-man in baseball last season. 66.2 innings pitched, 1.08 ERA, only 40 hits, one HR allowed, 100 Ks. Since his debut in the second half of the 2008 season, he has consistently exhibited one of the highest K/9 in baseball. Yet, you listed him as a question mark due to his improvement in WHIP from the previous season, his career high, even though his WHIP was lower in the two seasons prior to that one.  

    If I projected his 2012 season, I would think he'd have a solid one, but the fact that he is 2 years removed from being awful is something to be concerned about. Bard had 3 straight good/great years, and many yank fans consider him a question mark.  

    Once more, if you project Robertson to have a solid year, then he should not also be a question mark.  Hedging your bets by wagering on both sides of an issue is by definition no bet at all.

    This sums up you limited mindset perfectly.

    Moreover, Robertson has never been awful.  Review his statistics again.  The only blemish -  ERA his rookie season; however, if you take the time to consider his game logs, you will find that he pitched in only 25 ball games for a total of 30.1 innings that season, of which he had only one awful outing against Baltimore, giving up 5 runs in 1/3 of an inning.  He did his job in 20 of his 25 appearances.

    Using ERA to evaluate a relief pitcher agains shows your tunnel vision. WHIP is a much better tool and here is Robertson's first 3 years in the MLB numbers:
    2008: 1.451
    2009: 1.351
    2010: 1.500
    He had a great season last year and I think he is the real deal, but that doesn't mean there is no serious doubt. Anyone who follows baseball closely knows that tha vast majority of relief pitchers have rollercoaster careers. They can look great one year and awful the next. Just because I "project" Robertson will have a good year, does not mean he has to be taken off the concern list. There is a significant chance he reverts back to a 1.40 type WHIP. There's also a chance he has a good year, but still worse than 2011 and perhaps that's enough to make a slight difference to the season outcome. Perhaps mot.

    Furthermore, since being called up, no other reliever in baseball has entered more games with the bases loaded and no outs than David Robertson, who has struck out 270 batters in 202 innings pitched and has compiled an overall record of 14-6. 

    Now, you are using W-L record by a relief pitcher to make a point? I could rest my case right here, but here's a cherry=picked stat for you to ponder:
    In 2010 he let of 10 of 33 inherited runs to score, and had at least 19 bad appearances out of 64...not counting games where he walked and let up multiple hits but no runs were scored.
    Are you saying the chances of him having a season closer to 2010 than 2011 is so remote, the concern is so limited, that nobody who thinks he's a good pitcher can have serious doubts?

    Robertson has very good numbers in clutch situations over his whole career. I wish he was on our side, but he's still a question mark.

    As for Daniel Bard, he is only a question mark as a ML starter, not a set-up man; however, he does have a poor career record of 5-13 and has been dismal in save situations, blowing a horrendous 15 saves in 20 opportunities.  Still, he is one of the best set up men in the game today.

    His starter and closer numbers are based on extremely small sample sizes. That being said, Bard as a starter is a huge concern. 

    Besides, aren't you now "missing the point"? I never said Bard was not a question mark, in fact, I think he is a huge Q-mark as a starter. I was bringing his name up because I have heard many Yankee fans bashing him, and I used him as a reference to why Robertson could be considered a Q-mark as well.

    Concomitantly, you assert question marks for players who showed a statistical decline. Therefore, both an improvement and a decline are evidence to you indicating a concern or question mark. Hmmm? 

    I wouldn't label Robertson a major concern, and they have Soriano as well, so the pen is not an issue like it is for the Sox.  Even if Mo declines, the yanks should be OK there. 

    If the Yankee bullpen will be ok, then there goes your argument for David Robertson, Mariano Rivera, and the back of the bullpen as concerns/questionmarks.  Especially, considering Joba Chamberlain, Pedro Feliciano, and David Aardsma are all on the DL and may not pitch this season.

    You continue to misunderstand and misrepresent my position. I do think the Ynaks pen will be OK, and I think the Yanks will do well this year, but my point was that they have enough significant concerns to put serious doubt that my projection will come true. After all, I was wrong on the Sox last year due mainly to us getting over 80 starts by back-up or injured pitchers. With the age and decline of several key Yankees, I think I am being reasonable in saying I think they will win the division, but have so many concerns as to cast serious doubt on that projection.

     To make another point, consider Robinson Cano - depending upon which array utilized by which company of leading sabermatricians, Cano was defensively one of the best second baseman in all of baseball. Yet, a competing company ranked him as one of the worst defensive second basemen last season. Still, a third company ranked Cano in the middle of the pack. Defensive metrics are dubious at best. Even year to year, the same player can rate near the top and then near the very bottom.  Cano is awesome. He is not a question mark. Derek Jeter's dWAR was minus or - 1.3 last season. Not very good. But, his dWAR was an identical -1.3 in 1997 as well. Jeter hit .297 last season. Not shabby. He also hit .327 after the all-star break. His overall OBP was .355. Robinson Cano's was .349. Perhaps, you should have included Cano as a question mark too? See above. Look, Jeter had worse numbers than many SSs last year and is a year older. He is certainly a question mark and is one of the worst fielders in MLB right now. His range is pathetic. We can agree to disagree, but if you really think I am all wet to call him a question mark, you are not being objective. Jeter's second half numbers: .327/.383/.428/.811 

    Jeter's first half numbers: .270/.330/.353/.683 

    When many fans were burying Jeter last season, including most Yankee fans, I posted here several times that his struggles were a matter of mechanics and not a sudden and precipitous drop in athleticism or bat speed.  Moreover, I predicted that Jeter would take off following his 3000th hit and would hit .300.  Well, if not for getting hit in the hand and wrist, he damn near made it.  I believe Jeter will hit .300 this season as well.   

    You could be right, but I'll trust the time tested S-curve projection methodology and project he will do worse than 2011 as a whole.

    My guess is he comes out somewhere in the middle and coupled with his horrific fielding, he's overall bottom tier now. I could be wrong. The guy has heart and pride. 

    I have watched either live or on tape nearly every MLB game Derek Jeter has played since getting his first cup of coffee at the end of the 1995 regular season - and that is no exaggeration.  No major league team could afford to field a "horrific" defensive shortstop, much less the New York Yankees, a team that has missed the playoffs only once since Derek Jeter put on Pinstripes.  Your position is sheer hyperbole.  

    I guess that shows what a homer you are, because he is and has been one of baseballs worst fielders for several years now.

    Don Zimmer, who has seen major league shortstops for the better part of sixty years, has stated on numerous occasions that Jeter is the best he has ever seen at coming in on ground balls and going back on fly balls.  Not adequate, not serviceable, not very good...but the best at moving north and south in fielding a batted ball.  Another opinion supporting that view is none other than Cal Ripkin. I will trust my eyes and playing/coaching experience in watching Derek Jeter play nearly every single inning of his career and the opinions of Zim and Ripkin - among others - rather than your exaggeration and the dubious outcomes offered by current defensive metrics.  Even the father of sabrematricians, Bill James, has issued caution regarding the numinous nature of defensive statistics, and specifically, more or less abandoning range factor nearly ten years ago.

    So, now you want to trust certain companies and pioneers of metrics when they suit your purpose.

    Jeter's career OBP is .383. His worst season was .340 in 2010. For comparison, Carl Crawford's career OBP is  .333 with a single season high of .364. 

    Did I ever defend CC? I called him a glorified platoon player whose contract will cripple us for 7 years. Using a 38 year old's career numbers to try and impress me is not going to work. 

    I never stated that you did.  Rather, I used a corner outfielder's career numbers in comparison to a shortstop's worst year for OBP to illustrate just how high Derek Jeter has set his own standards.  And, Carl Crawford is a four time all-star; he just may not be in the white-hot spotlight that is Boston and New York.  Platoon players do not garner 20 million dollar contracts.  Again, hyperbole on your part. And, if you are not impressed with Derek Jeter's career numbers, then I am beginning to question your sanity.  How many shortstops has Boston had since 1996?

    You talk about me getting off the point.

    I never said Jeter was a horrible hitter. I said he was and still is in decline. Decline from being one of the best does not mean he is bad now. My point is that several key Yankee players should or could easily continue to decline this year, and that all put together could spell a significant offensive decline from last year...still a very good offense, but just not as good as 2011. 

    I've listened to those who argue that Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball history (Rob Neyer). As a former player and coach, I maintain that Jeter was and is still sure handed, has a strong arm, is lanky and athletic at 6'3", comes in on slow rollers marvelously, throws off balance accurately, handles bad throws from catcher to outfielders as well as anyone, makes incredibly difficult tags around the bag, feeds the ball to second effortlessly, goes backwards on fly balls as well as anyone, and most importantly with the game on the line, no one is holding their breath when a grounder is hit in his direction. He consistently makes big plays in big moments and does not botch anything routine. And, he is death to base runners in a rundown or pickle. 

    He's great at relay throws....whoop-dee- doo! 

    Is that really all you have taken from what I have written?  Thank you for the insightful response.

    Yes, right now, that is the only good part I see in Jeter's defense.... his arm and instincts.

    His weakness is and always has been balls hit to his left. It is not speed; he just has never read the ball well to that side and consequently gets inadequate jumps. He has also lost a step to his right over the years, but that used to be a strength as well. 

    He never had good range, and not he "lost a step"... hmmm....
    Posted by moonslav59

    Well, I have previously commented regarding Jeter's ability to field in movements north and south.  And, there are more than enough highlights of him making great plays to his right.  And, at 38, he has lost a step or more to his right.  Again, Jeter has always had a GLARING weakness defensively, and that is going to his left or toward second base.  And, unfortunately, that is a significant part of the game in fielding his position.   

    He makes the highlights because he plays for the Yanks and they win.
    The Sox won with Lugo.
    I'm not the only one who thinks Jeter is a horrible fielder. Some are just as trusted as the gerbil. I trust you have seen 7 to 8 times the amount of Yankee games as I, but I ahve watched about 250 Yankee games vs the Sox and quite a few more vs other teams. I am not basing my opinion on just 5 or 6 stats and metrics. 

    You quote Bill James, but did you know that him and 9 other members on the Fielding Bible's panel failed to pick Jeter in their top 10 SSs last year or 2010 ( Jeter got 3 poior 2009. He did place 17th in 2008, 14th in 2007, and 18th in 2006, so maybe he was close to average at one point in his career. He's not even close now. Comining in and going out well on balls do effect RF/9 and UZR, I guess just not enough to move him out of the bottom few slots.
     
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    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to; Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]It appears that Smelly/Law09 have nothing better to do on opening day than bump old threads. Thread bump.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]In Response to  Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released : There are also strengths. Reducing the level for establishing legitimate concerns/question marks to simultaneously include players occupying positions of strength is, in and of itself, contradictory and, as such, meaningless for the sake of comparison.  Of course the Yanks have plenty of strengths.  You've missed the point.  The fact that it is the Yankees, for the purpose of understanding in this case, is incidental.  Do you not recognize the contradition identified in the paragraph above? No, there is no contraditiction. Everything is not black and white. Some people can look at things from more than one angle. Obviously, you are not one of them. You keep pretending I picked them to finish behind the Sox.  I pretend nothing, and I have made no such claim.  I simply noted a false dicotomy with respect to your reasoning in this particular instance.   It's Ok to project a team with many questions or concerns to have the best record. It's not a false dicotomy. I never even said the Yanks had more major questions. I just pointed out 10 concerns (some could have been minor, moderate or major).  The Yanks have many questions. I feel they have about the same amount as us and pretty close to the same level of concern. They have a few more near sure bets than us. I didn't mention that when I posted my list, because I was addressing only the issue of concerns at that time.  I projected them with the most wons in the AL.  Again, not the point.    It's one of my points. Just because you don't think it is related, doesn't mean it isn't. I also raised some valid concerns or questions.  This is the point of argument.  The aforementioned contradiction in reasoning quite necessarily dismisses any validity for your claims.  Put another way, a pitcher who fashioned an ERA+ of 410 cannot be projected as both a strength and a question mark.  It begs for a more coherent methodology.  That which can be asserted without proof also requires none for refutation, rendering comparision meaningless.  You are arguing semantics. We could go on all day. I'll choose to just chalk you up as narrow minded.    For example, David Robertson was arguably the best set-up-man in baseball last season. 66.2 innings pitched, 1.08 ERA, only 40 hits, one HR allowed, 100 Ks. Since his debut in the second half of the 2008 season, he has consistently exhibited one of the highest K/9 in baseball. Yet, you listed him as a question mark due to his improvement in WHIP from the previous season, his career high, even though his WHIP was lower in the two seasons prior to that one.   If I projected his 2012 season, I would think he'd have a solid one, but the fact that he is 2 years removed from being awful is something to be concerned about. Bard had 3 straight good/great years, and many yank fans consider him a question mark.   Once more, if you project Robertson to have a solid year, then he should not also be a question mark.  Hedging your bets by wagering on both sides of an issue is by definition no bet at all. This sums up you limited mindset perfectly. Moreover, Robertson has never been awful.  Review his statistics again.  The only blemish -  ERA his rookie season; however, if you take the time to consider his game logs, you will find that he pitched in only 25 ball games for a total of 30.1 innings that season, of which he had only one awful outing against Baltimore, giving up 5 runs in 1/3 of an inning.  He did his job in 20 of his 25 appearances. Using ERA to evaluate a relief pitcher agains shows your tunnel vision. WHIP is a much better tool and here is Robertson's first 3 years in the MLB numbers: 2008: 1.451 2009: 1.351 2010: 1.500 He had a great season last year and I think he is the real deal, but that doesn't mean there is no serious doubt. Anyone who follows baseball closely knows that tha vast majority of relief pitchers have rollercoaster careers. They can look great one year and awful the next. Just because I "project" Robertson will have a good year, does not mean he has to be taken off the concern list. There is a significant chance he reverts back to a 1.40 type WHIP. There's also a chance he has a good year, but still worse than 2011 and perhaps that's enough to make a slight difference to the season outcome. Perhaps mot. Furthermore, since being called up, no other reliever in baseball has entered more games with the bases loaded and no outs than David Robertson, who has struck out 270 batters in 202 innings pitched and has compiled an overall record of 14-6.  Now, you are using W-L record by a relief pitcher to make a point? I could rest my case right here, but here's a cherry=picked stat for you to ponder: In 2010 he let of 10 of 33 inherited runs to score, and had at least 19 bad appearances out of 64...not counting games where he walked and let up multiple hits but no runs were scored. Are you saying the chances of him having a season closer to 2010 than 2011 is so remote, the concern is so limited, that nobody who thinks he's a good pitcher can have serious doubts? Robertson has very good numbers in clutch situations over his whole career. I wish he was on our side, but he's still a question mark. As for Daniel Bard, he is only a question mark as a ML starter, not a set-up man; however, he does have a poor career record of 5-13 and has been dismal in save situations, blowing a horrendous 15 saves in 20 opportunities.  Still, he is one of the best set up men in the game today. His starter and closer numbers are based on extremely small sample sizes. That being said, Bard as a starter is a huge concern.  Besides, aren't you now "missing the point"? I never said Bard was not a question mark, in fact, I think he is a huge Q-mark as a starter. I was bringing his name up because I have heard many Yankee fans bashing him, and I used him as a reference to why Robertson could be considered a Q-mark as well. Concomitantly, you assert question marks for players who showed a statistical decline. Therefore, both an improvement and a decline are evidence to you indicating a concern or question mark. Hmmm?  I wouldn't label Robertson a major concern, and they have Soriano as well, so the pen is not an issue like it is for the Sox.   Even if Mo declines, the yanks should be OK there.  If the Yankee bullpen will be ok, then there goes your argument for David Robertson, Mariano Rivera, and the back of the bullpen as concerns/questionmarks.  Especially, considering Joba Chamberlain, Pedro Feliciano, and David Aardsma are all on the DL and may not pitch this season. You continue to misunderstand and misrepresent my position. I do think the Ynaks pen will be OK, and I think the Yanks will do well this year, but my point was that they have enough significant concerns to put serious doubt that my projection will come true. After all, I was wrong on the Sox last year due mainly to us getting over 80 starts by back-up or injured pitchers. With the age and decline of several key Yankees, I think I am being reasonable in saying I think they will win the division, but have so many concerns as to cast serious doubt on that projection.  To make another point, consider Robinson Cano - depending upon which array utilized by which company of leading sabermatricians, Cano was defensively one of the best second baseman in all of baseball. Yet, a competing company ranked him as one of the worst defensive second basemen last season. Still, a third company ranked Cano in the middle of the pack. Defensive metrics are dubious at best. Even year to year, the same player can rate near the top and then near the very bottom.  Cano is awesome. He is not a question mark. Derek Jeter's dWAR was minus or - 1.3 last season. Not very good. But, his dWAR was an identical -1.3 in 1997 as well. Jeter hit .297 last season. Not shabby. He also hit .327 after the all-star break. His overall OBP was .355. Robinson Cano's was .349. Perhaps, you should have included Cano as a question mark too? See above. Look, Jeter had worse numbers than many SSs last year and is a year older. He is certainly a question mark and is one of the worst fielders in MLB right now. His range is pathetic. We can agree to disagree, but if you really think I am all wet to call him a question mark, you are not being objective. Jeter's second half numbers: .327/.383/.428/.811  Jeter's first half numbers: .270/.330/.353/.683  When many fans were burying Jeter last season, including most Yankee fans, I posted here several times that his struggles were a matter of mechanics and not a sudden and precipitous drop in athleticism or bat speed.  Moreover, I predicted that Jeter would take off following his 3000th hit and would hit .300.  Well, if not for getting hit in the hand and wrist, he damn near made it.  I believe Jeter will hit .300 this season as well.    You could be right, but I'll trust the time tested S-curve projection methodology and project he will do worse than 2011 as a whole. My guess is he comes out somewhere in the middle and coupled with his horrific fielding, he's overall bottom tier now. I could be wrong. The guy has heart and pride.  I have watched either live or on tape nearly every MLB game Derek Jeter has played since getting his first cup of coffee at the end of the 1995 regular season - and that is no exaggeration.  No major league team could afford to field a "horrific" defensive shortstop, much less the New York Yankees, a team that has missed the playoffs only once since Derek Jeter put on Pinstripes.  Your position is sheer hyperbole.   I guess that shows what a homer you are, because he is and has been one of baseballs worst fielders for several years now. Don Zimmer, who has seen major league shortstops for the better part of sixty years, has stated on numerous occasions that Jeter is the best he has ever seen at coming in on ground balls and going back on fly balls.  Not adequate, not serviceable, not very good...but the best at moving north and south in fielding a batted ball.  Another opinion supporting that view is none other than Cal Ripkin. I will trust my eyes and playing/coaching experience in watching Derek Jeter play nearly every single inning of his career and the opinions of Zim and Ripkin - among others - rather than your exaggeration and the dubious outcomes offered by current defensive metrics.  Even the father of sabrematricians, Bill James, has issued caution regarding the numinous nature of defensive statistics, and specifically, more or less abandoning range factor nearly ten years ago. So, now you want to trust certain companies and pioneers of metrics when they suit your purpose. Jeter's career OBP is .383. His worst season was .340 in 2010. For comparison, Carl Crawford's career OBP is  .333 with a single season high of .364.  Did I ever defend CC? I called him a glorified platoon player whose contract will cripple us for 7 years. Using a 38 year old's career numbers to try and impress me is not going to work.  I never stated that you did.  Rather, I used a corner outfielder's career numbers in comparison to a shortstop's worst year for OBP to illustrate just how high Derek Jeter has set his own standards.  And, Carl Crawford is a four time all-star; he just may not be in the white-hot spotlight that is Boston and New York.  Platoon players do not garner 20 million dollar contracts.  Again, hyperbole on your part. And, if you are not impressed with Derek Jeter's career numbers, then I am beginning to question your sanity.  How many shortstops has Boston had since 1996? You talk about me getting off the point. I never said Jeter was a horrible hitter. I said he was and still is in decline. Decline from being one of the best does not mean he is bad now. My point is that several key Yankee players should or could easily continue to decline this year, and that all put together could spell a significant offensive decline from last year...still a very good offense, but just not as good as 2011.  I've listened to those who argue that Derek Jeter is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball history (Rob Neyer). As a former player and coach, I maintain that Jeter was and is still sure handed, has a strong arm, is lanky and athletic at 6'3", comes in on slow rollers marvelously, throws off balance accurately, handles bad throws from catcher to outfielders as well as anyone, makes incredibly difficult tags around the bag, feeds the ball to second effortlessly, goes backwards on fly balls as well as anyone, and most importantly with the game on the line, no one is holding their breath when a grounder is hit in his direction. He consistently makes big plays in big moments and does not botch anything routine. And, he is death to base runners in a rundown or pickle.  He's great at relay throws....whoop-dee- doo!  Is that really all you have taken from what I have written?  Thank you for the insightful response. Yes, right now, that is the only good part I see in Jeter's defense.... his arm and instincts. His weakness is and always has been balls hit to his left. It is not speed; he just has never read the ball well to that side and consequently gets inadequate jumps. He has also lost a step to his right over the years, but that used to be a strength as well.  He never had good range, and not he "lost a step"... hmmm.... Posted by moonslav59 Well, I have previously commented regarding Jeter's ability to field in movements north and south.  And, there are more than enough highlights of him making great plays to his right.  And, at 38, he has lost a step or more to his right.  Again, Jeter has always had a GLARING weakness defensively, and that is going to his left or toward second base.  And, unfortunately, that is a significant part of the game in fielding his position.    He makes the highlights because he plays for the Yanks and they win. The Sox won with Lugo. I'm not the only one who thinks Jeter is a horrible fielder. Some are just as trusted as the gerbil. I trust you have seen 7 to 8 times the amount of Yankee games as I, but I ahve watched about 250 Yankee games vs the Sox and quite a few more vs other teams. I am not basing my opinion on just 5 or 6 stats and metrics.  You quote Bill James, but did you know that him and 9 other members on the Fielding Bible's panel failed to pick Jeter in their top 10 SSs last year or 2010 ( Jeter got 3 poior 2009. He did place 17th in 2008, 14th in 2007, and 18th in 2006, so maybe he was close to average at one point in his career. He's not even close now. Comining in and going out well on balls do effect RF/9 and UZR, I guess just not enough to move him out of the bottom few slots.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon and hubris have set new standards for critiquing the critique of each others penultimate critique...A set of congruent mirrors reflecting into an endless tunnel of mirror reflections......Yikes...You guys need to pass out the Dramamine with these posts, but they make for entertaining reading....Still, it might be good if you both waxed philosophical, and did not limit your debating skills to baseball topics...Something along the lines of....

     

    You intimated that I mocked your selection of him as your avatar, and that I was blaming Nietzsche for laying the basis for Nazi ubermensch doctrine.  I never implied this and actually made it clear the Nazis had racialzed it beyond recognition.  And you can post the drawing/photo of anyone you want..I could care less....

     Not sure then why would you say "Actually, they should rename that work "Thus Spoke Zarahitler".

     

     You claimed in one post that I had dismissed Nietzsche as "mentally ill".  I never said that at all.  What I said is that he went "off the rails", a phrase that can mean different things to different people.  To you it automatically means mental illness...Hmmm...Why is that?

    Unless Nietzsche was a part-time train conductor on the weekends, I am not sure how else to interpret that statement....

     You keep saying that neither you nor Nietzsche is a nihilist, and that the quote "To a nihilist, nothing is sacred." is just "so funny I forgot to laugh".  If there is no shred of truth to this, why is it that you seem to love Nothing and Nobody but yourself. Did I hit a nerve???

    This statement speaks for itself, and so I must be guilty as charged....NOT!

     The clincher to me was your attempt to make Jeter out to be the Failed Ubermensch who is nevertheless made into a Baseball Superman anyway by a complicit New York media.  Perhaps your intellectual range is as challenged as Jeter's defensive range at shorstop?

    I was merely pointing out that there are moderate questions about his supposed "superstar" HOF legacy, especially given that in 2011 his UZR when combined with his WAR is wholly inferior to the stats compiled by Brooks Robinson the year he got involved with Scientology and played on a gimpy ankle....As to intellectual range, why is it that every Nietzsche reference you have made seems to be lifted almost directly from the Wikipedia post on Friedrich W. himself....

    Friedrich W.????  And that would be another one of your pet existentialist philosophers????  Why won't you just come out and admit you called my wife names??? Instead of pretending...

    What I said was I hope she gets out more so she doesn't need to look everything up in an online encyclopedia like you do....

    Jeter-basher!

    Yankee troll!!!!

     

    Warning: This post might not have been written by the real "teilhardian", who is not the poster he claims to be anyway....Teilhard de Chardin was actually known to his closest friends by a nickname that was a testament to his love for medieval weaponry.  He kept one of these in his bedroom at all times as a form of protection and as a stimulant for conversation....You guessed it, the dreaded "pike"....


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released : Moon and hubris have set new standards for critiquing the critique of each others penultimate critique...A set of congruent mirrors reflecting into an endless tunnel of mirror reflections......Yikes...You guys need to pass out the Dramamine with these posts, but they make for entertaining reading....Still, it might be good if you both waxed philosophical, and did not limit your debating skills to baseball topics...Something along the lines of....   You intimated that I mocked your selection of him as your avatar, and that I was blaming Nietzsche for laying the basis for Nazi ubermensch doctrine.  I never implied this and actually made it clear the Nazis had racialzed it beyond recognition.  And you can post the drawing/photo of anyone you want..I could care less....   Not sure then why would you say "Actually, they should rename that work "Thus Spoke Zarahitler".     You claimed in one post that I had dismissed Nietzsche as "mentally ill".  I never said that at all.  What I said is that he went "off the rails", a phrase that can mean different things to different people.  To you it automatically means mental illness...Hmmm...Why is that?   Unless, Nietzsche was a part-time train conductor on the weekends, I am not sure how else to interpret that statement....   You keep saying that neither you nor Nietzsche is a nihilist, and that the quote "To a nihilist, nothing is sacred." is just "so funny I forgot to laugh".  If there is no shred of truth to this, why is it that you seem to love Nothing and Nobody but yourself. Did I hit a nerve??? This statement speaks for itself, and so I must be guilty as charged....NOT!   The clincher to me was your attempt to make Jeter out to be the Failed Ubermensch who is nevertheless made into a Baseball Superman anyway by a complicit New York media.  Perhaps your intellectual range is as challenged as Jeter's defensive range at shorstop? I was merely pointing out that there are moderate questions about his supposed "superstar" HOF legacy, especially given that in 2011 his UZR when combined with his WAR is wholly inferior to the stats compiled by Brooks Robinson the year he got involved with Scientology and played on a gimpy ankle....As to intellectual range, why is it that every Nietzsche reference you have made seems to be lifted almost directly from the Wikipedia post on Friedrich W. himself.... Friedrich W.????  And that would be another one of your pet existentialist philosophers????  Why won't you just come out and admit you called my wife names??? Instead of pretending... What I said was I hope she gets out more so she doesn't need to look everything up in an online encyclopedia like you do.... Jeter-basher! Yankee troll!!!!   Warning: This post might not have been written by the real "teilhardian", who is not the poster he claims to be anyway....Teilhard de Chardin was actually known to his closest friends by a nickname that was a testament to his love for medieval weaponry.  He kept one of these in his bedroom at all times as a form of protection and as a stimulant for conversation....You guessed it, the dreaded "pike"....
    Posted by teilhardian[/QUOTE]


    Incredible!


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: ESPN Power Rankings Released

    What wasted brainpower. Bottom Line: Jeter is a 1st ballot HOFer; and RS are not considered one of the better teams in MLB by the experts unless they fix their pitching, which is a tall order. There's nothing homerish or indicative of putting your head in the sand about that.
     

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