Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

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    Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    The following was reposted from another thread since the topic didn't apply, making the thread go wayward. Although 5katz and myself has stated repeatedly to fickle fans that in a great season  (and with the exception of a few flukes, like the '98 Yanks and '01 Mariners), you shall still LOSE 60 games, this was an exception. See below
     
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    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?


    Rosenthal is a clueless drone with a platform. He's like the Olney idiot who claimed Ortiz was likely to be DFA after a meeting. These are little short men who know people in the entertainment business. Hiring them violates federal laws, but federal laws are selectively enforced. The sluggers make this Red Sox offense go. If they don't hit, the offense isn't going to go, regardless of whether a scatback is running around or not. If the sluggers don't make the offense go, it will take great pitching to win the game, regardless of what the scatbacks do. That's why Agon is a great value and Crawford is not. All the supporting cast does is wait for the sluggers to make the offense go. Otherwise, you get what happened, tonight. AGon, Youk and Pedroia are high OPS guys. If one of them are on, the offense will be adequate. If two are on, the offense will be scoring a lot of runs. Tonight, they nibbled on AGon and pitched around Youk to put away Mac and/or Cameron. That's NL style ball. Tito made serious management errors. Pedroia isn't the same as what he was on the pop basis, but will hopefully regain that when he adjusts and/or gets the screw out of his wheel. With Bellsbury and Pedroia, they simply pound the K zone and give up a few punch and judy singles. They get to AGon, and they nibble, then stay away from Youk and close out the inning by blowing Mac and/or Cameron away. The lineup mistake that Tito made was putting Mac and Cameron in the 5 and 6 holes. Here was the correct lineup: Ellsbury Scutaro AGon Youk Pedroia Varitek (pinch Ortiz/Drew) Cameron (pinch Ortiz/Drew) Mac (pinch Ortiz/Drew) Pitcher (pinch Ortiz/Drew) Tito had it handed to him. I don't care if he managed in the NL, he was an idiot for not making the obvious lineup adjustment. Putting Pedroia in the 5 hole would have put a 1.048 OPS v LHP in the 5 hole and put punch and judy recently good OBP and split numbers v. LHP Scutaro in the 2 spot, instead of down the lineup. This would have put the Pirate starter into some serously higher stress level with one mistake to Pedroia and a gapper. With Mac and Cameron, seldom used and scuffing at the plate, putting them in the 5 and 6 hole is tantamount to manager malpractice! In addition, as another poster points out, he had to employ the double switch and get Reddick and Ortiz in sooner and/or higher up with RISP in the middle part of the game. It's all about percentages. Having Varitek move the runners up, with no outs, was the correct play. But, had Pedroia been in the 5 spot, at that point, one on, if the Pirates call for the righty to turn Varitek around, then Reddick or Drew could have pinch hit for Varitek, followed by Ortiz pinch hitting for Cameron's spot. Likely worse case, one run to put the pressure on the Pirates closer. Drew or Reddick can pinch hit for the 9th spot. Tito's good on keeping his players happy and restoring confidence after the struggles, but he's a poor game manager who is very scared to play his cards until the very end of the game. He's also very poor at putting his players in the right spots and matchups when making out lineups against pitchers. Many times, the tipping point comes in the middle innings, especially in NL ball. A good mangers admits his mistakes and isn't scared to make adjustments. A bad one rationalizes the mistakes and tries to keep the upper hand by sticking to his guns. Tonight's lineup decision was an embarrassing mistake, even if Mac or Cameron happened to launch one. The odds of that happening were too small to validate the decision, even if it "worked" one time. NL ball is about good defense, punch and judy, small ball, one slugger, maybe, and good pitching to pitch around a slugger or two and mow through lineups that have slugging holes from the 5 spot on.
    Posted by betterredthandead
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bravo, and kudos. I was at the game, with a bird's eye view (upper deck, slightly off Home Plate, a good spot to see the pitches). All I can say is WOW, you were spot on. (If only you would stick to posts like these, others would take you more seriously, but I digress.)

    First off, I think Tito is one of the best Mgrs in baseball; however, no MGR is perfect; (even Casey Stengel in his prime flubbed at times) and I saw some of the flaws tonight; rigidity with lineups and excessive loyalty (Girardi has a similar problem with standing up to Jeter; he may have had enough prima donna battles after what transpired with Posada.)

    Tito was schooled last night by Clint Hurdle, who may be this yrs best Mgr in the NL. Although LaRussa & Tito are the Rock Stars, Showalter (who strikes fear in his entitled players; a good quality) and Hurdle may currently be the best. Hurdle is a story in itself; a disappointing young stud who took his talent for granted, I believe he's channeled that negative experience into what he is today; a grizzled tactician.


    There were several key innings in this tense 3-1 game. Top of the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, and bottom of the 3rd. But the inning that stood out for me was NOT the later innings, which shall garner the most attention, but the earlier ones, especially the top of the 3rd. (In the bottom, Lester, who was sailing along with 2 perfect frames, was betrayed by shoddy defense and a surprise bunt)  

    It was OBVIOUS they avoided Youkilis, given the lineup deficiencies (Why was Scutaro batting 8th? It was almost like Tito was saying, "I don't know what to do with him, so I'll put him here"). In the 3rd, he had no chance to see a pitch, but Maholm was still in nibble mode with the bases loaded on the 1st pitch to McDonald.  Hurdle darted out of the dugout. Often, Mgr, Pitching coach, catcher, and infield meetings don't do squat for the situation at hand, but not THIS time; this was an effective meeting. sitting in my seat, you could feel what Hurdle was saying to him: "Look; this guy's a .100 hitter for chrissakes; just fire the freaking ball down the middle of the plate and we'll get out of this. Trust me"

    And that is exactly what happened.

    Eerily similar events happened in the 1st and 5th.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    Scutaro in the 2 slot and Pedroia in the 5 slot might have worked, granted, but very, very few managers would have made such a radical switch.  Pedroia has only batted in the two slot for a thousand years, so of course it makes sense to jerk him around.  Scutaro and Tek would probably have been better choices in the 5 and 6 slots, but that is hindsight. 

    The larger reality is that the Sox hitting, best in baseball, is hurt badly on the road in NL parks because Ortiz is having a great year and because Lowrie and Crawford are on the DL.  This is and will be exacerbated when the Sox go against good pitching--the Pirates ERA is 9th best in MLB, and the Phillies ERA is the best in baseball.  See my thread, The Danger.  Unlike you two, I don't rely on hindsight to see trouble.   

    The arguments against putting AGon in RF so that Ortiz can play 1B are compelling, but last night shows why Francona is considering doing it.  Ironically, hindsight tells us that AGon would have been better in RF than Cameron the clown was. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    Pedey hitting 5th isn't radical with CC/Papi out.
    Hell, Tito has hit him clean-up!
     
    But I doubt Pedey's 1 for 4 would have altered the game much.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Scutaro in the 2 slot and Pedroia in the 5 slot might have worked, granted, but very, very few managers would have made such a radical switch.  Pedroia has only batted in the two slot for a thousand years, so of course it makes sense to jerk him around.  Scutaro and Tek would probably have been better choices in the 5 and 6 slots, but that is hindsight.  The larger reality is that the Sox hitting, best in baseball, is hurt badly on the road in NL parks because Ortiz is having a great year and because Lowrie and Crawford are on the DL.  This is and will be exacerbated when the Sox go against good pitching--the Pirates ERA is 9th best in MLB, and the Phillies ERA is the best in baseball.  See my thread, The Danger.  Unlike you two, I don't rely on hindsight to see trouble.    The arguments against putting AGon in RF so that Ortiz can play 1B are compelling, but last night shows why Francona is considering doing it.  Ironically, hindsight tells us that AGon would have been better in RF than Cameron the clown was. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    I don't see Scutaro as a big come down from Lowrie; IMO, Scut's the better player, especially when factoring in fielding, grinding ABs, durability and willingness to play when not 100%. Also a few managers who wouldn't give a cr-p about juggling Line Ups (or hurting player's feelings):

    John McGraw
    Joe McCarthy
    Leo Durocher
    Casey Stengel
    Dick Williams
    Billy Martin
    Buck Showalter

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Pedey hitting 5th isn't radical with CC/Papi out. Hell, Tito has hit him clean-up!   But I doubt Pedey's 1 for 4 would have altered the game much.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Who would you rather have up in the clutch? Pedey or a washed up Cam and chronic 4A player McDonald? You don't need to answer.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Rosenthal is a clueless drone with a platform. sorry, I couldnt get passed this first sentence without posting .. That sounds like softy, not Rosenthal ...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    "I'm not the one doing the COOKING Newman!"


    "Damn you Seinfeld; you useless postule!"
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    Personally I think it was pretty bold of Francona to hit DMac and Cam 5th and 6th.  It's like he was trying to give them one last shot to do something, and if it didn't happen, to send a message to Theo to start looking for another RH bat pronto.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Personally I think it was pretty bold of Francona to hit DMac and Cam 5th and 6th.  It's like he was trying to give them one last shot to do something, and if it didn't happen, to send a message to Theo to start looking for another RH bat pronto.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    really??? was that his plan? by far the most clueless managing of the year - and that is saying something - how about just playing your starters/best players and not trying to send a "message" to anyone (if you honestly believe that)?
     
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    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.? : really??? was that his plan? by far the most clueless managing of the year - and that is saying something - how about just playing your starters/best players and not trying to send a "message" to anyone (if you honestly believe that)?
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    The thing is, Cameron and DMac have only one valid reason to be on the roster at this point, to hit against lefties.  So you either try to get them to do this or you replace them.  If they can't hit lefties anymore then they have to go.  Just sitting on the bench is a waste of precious roster space.  Just my opinion. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.? : really??? was that his plan? by far the most clueless managing of the year - and that is saying something - how about just playing your starters/best players and not trying to send a "message" to anyone (if you honestly believe that)?
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    Agreed, but sometimes all managers have games, where player availability is an issue, or the opponent has an ace going, or something similar, when they privately say to themsleves or to the coaches beforehand, "We'll most likely lose tonight"
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    NHSteven, did you see Moonslav at the game? He was supposed to be there also. For some reason you sound very much like an agitated Red Sox fan on your above posts and yet you are a Yankee fan. Better yet a Yankee fan who attended a Red Sox game in Pittsburg but resides in NH. What did the Yankees do last night - do you really care? Was Jessey there with you?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    lol!  I am on IGNORE but I can still laugh at nhsteven.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]NHSteven, did you see Moonslav at the game? He was supposed to be there also. For some reason you sound very much like an agitated Red Sox fan on your above posts and yet you are a Yankee fan. Better yet a Yankee fan who attended a Red Sox game in Pittsburg byt resides in NH. What did the Yankees do last nught - do you really care?
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    I'm on a temporary assignment in Pittsburgh for a few months, Pike. I caught up with the Yankee score at the ballpark. As far as assessing the game, I can do that despite my loyalties; we know you probably can't. Then again, you rarely discuss sports; usually it's just fractious tactics.

    Now, I could be making this all up; and YOU could be right; that I'm a martial arts instructor sitting in jail. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Personally I think it was pretty bold of Francona to hit DMac and Cam 5th and 6th.  It's like he was trying to give them one last shot to do something, and if it didn't happen, to send a message to Theo to start looking for another RH bat pronto.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    You can't be serious. All this time I thought you were a Francona minion. Now it's very obvious that your posts supporting him have all been with tongue in cheek. I'm impressed at how well you've disguised your low opinion of his managing skills. This post was just too obvious, I applaud you. 
    I love the use of the word "BOLD". Too funny. 
     
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    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.? : You can't be serious. All this time I thought you were a Francona minion. Now it's very obvious that your posts supporting him have all been with tongue in cheek. I'm impressed at how well you've disguised your low opinion of his managing skills. This post was just too obvious, I applaud you.  I love the use of the word "BOLD". Too funny. 
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Hey, that's funny, I've always thought most of your stuff was tongue-in-cheek too.  I mean, I'd have to believe you were a total simpleton if I thought you were on the level with all the J. Fred Muggs stuff.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    The Sox had a total of 9 hits last night, all of them singles.  The one run was scored on a walk, a grounder moving him to second, a single moving him to third, and a grounder scoring him. 

    That tells me that the Pittsburgh pitching was pretty good.  Ortiz might have helped, but there was/is no way to play him without moving AGon to right field.  Reddick might have helped, but Francona went with righties against the lefty starter. 

    McDonald actually hit the ball hard at least a couple of times, one time for a single, but still left 6 on base.  Cameron was a dead loss at bat and in the field. 

    It's hard for me to see how better managing was going to win this game.  The Sox couldn't hit more than singles, the Pirates could, and Cameron picked the wrong time to make a bonehead play. 
     
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    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.? : Hey, that's funny, I've always thought most of your stuff was tongue-in-cheek too.  I mean, I'd have to believe you were a total simpleton if I thought you were on the level with all the J. Fred Muggs stuff.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Surprised Embarassed Laughing You should see me laugh when a new poster actually looks up J. Fred.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    Why do Yankee fans get annoyed wuth Francona's lineup when the bottom of their batting order is :

    Swisher      .239
    Posada       .220
    Martin        .233
    Nunez        .244

    Does this consecutive crew of banjo hitters make Girardi look better than Tito?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    We're scuffling right now do to a combination of players on the DL and players filling in struggling.

    Guess all you bashers miss Crawford now don't you? Still, not worried.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Why do Yankee fans get annoyed wuth Francona's lineup when the bottom of their batting order is : Swisher      .239 Posada       .220 Martin        .233 Nunez        .244 Does this consecutive crew of banjo hitters make Girardi look better than Tito?
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    Or how about the Rays lineup last night, with the 3-4-5 hitters, Longoria, Upton and Shoppach, hitting .232, .220 and .187.  Of course they won 5-1 so it's not much of an issue.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    With a lefty, AGon is going to hit more singles.   So if Youk can't get the big hit, it makes more sense to have at least a high batting average following him to get some runs in.

    Two guys batting below the mendoza line in those key spots was a bad idea, the exeriment failed, time to try soemthing else.  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    In Response to Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?:
    [QUOTE]Why do Yankee fans get annoyed wuth Francona's lineup when the bottom of their batting order is : Swisher      .239 Posada       .220 Martin        .233 Nunez        .244 Does this consecutive crew of banjo hitters make Girardi look better than Tito?
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    Pike, there's many posters who are apparently RS fans who posted since yesterday complaining about the RS lineup last night, some in very annoyed terms, while the only Yankee fan as far as I know was me, who was just agreeing with Softy about what the lineup should have been. In your attempt to divide, conquer, & provoke, you have entered the realm of the nonsensical.  


    Martial arts convicts don't take kindly to such drivel.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    I'd still rather have Cam or DMac playing vs LHPs than Crawford
    (or Drew).

    Go by career numbers, 2010 numbers, last 3 year numbers or even just 2011 numbers...

    Drew .623  (37 PAs)
    Cam  .541  (67 PAs)
    Craw .474  (92 PAs)
    DMac .381 (30 PAs)

    Interesting to see the top 3 on this list in 2011 PAs should be flipped if going by 2011 OPS so far. Drew and Cam have been the best of the 4 so far. (Reddick is 3 for 5 vs LHPs this year and has a .971 OPS vs LHPs in just 16 career PAS in MLB)

    2010:
    Cam  1.128  (48)
    DMac   .821  (174)
    Craw    .696  (223)
    Drew    .611  (172)

    If you combine 2010 & 2011 the best 2 vs LHPs are: Cam & DMac. Neither have played much this year and neither have shown any signs of finding their stride in their sporadic and limited playing time.

    Personally, I think their sample sizes this year are not large enough to give up on them in favor of Crawford and Drew vs LHPs. I don't have faith in either Drew or Craw vs lefties. I think there's still a better chance that Cam or DMac do better vs LHPs the rest of this year than Crawford and Drew.
     
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    Re: Essential Softy and NHSteven OR What Happened Last Night.?

    I still have faith in Cameron.  There was a thread at the beginning of the season about Buchholz, and how his 2010 success was largely lucky because his BABIP was so low.  Cameron's BABIP is .167 this year - 160 points below even last year.  Keep playing him against lefties (over Drew or Crawford) and I think you will see results.  I have less faith in McDonald.

     

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