Evaluating Theo's history of trading

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    Evaluating Theo's history of trading

    Posted by Chad Finn, Globe Staff
     

    Judging Theo's body of work -- in terms of trades and free-agent signings -- on a couple of moves that didn't work out shows a lack of context and perspective. Dice-K was maddening (he really should have been a Met), and www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lackejo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">John Lackey-Wasdin's deal is regrettable just a year and half into it. But taking into consideration all of Epstein's significant acquisitions (at least the ones I could recall) since his spectacular Papi-Millar-Mueller-Timlin-Walker bargain-shopping jackpot before the 2003 season, I'd categorize them this way:

    SMOOTH MOVES
    Scott Williamson, www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/roberda07.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Dave Roberts, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mientdo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Doug Mientkiewicz, www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=cabreor01,cabrer002orl&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Orlando Cabrera, www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Billy Wagner, www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kieltbo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Bobby Kielty, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martivi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Victor Martinez, www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bayja01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jason Bay, www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=gonzaal02,gonzal006ale,gonzaal01&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Alex Gonzalez (both times), www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=beltrad01,beltre002adr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Adrian Beltre, www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaad01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Adrian Gonzalez, www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/foulkke01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Keith Foulke, www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schilcu01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Curt Schilling, www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/okajihi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Hideki Okajima, www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bellhma01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Mark Bellhorn, www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/arroybr01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Bronson Arroyo, www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kaplega01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Gabe Kapler, Curtis Leskanic, www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saltaja01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    Probably should list www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaad01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Adrian Gonzalez first out of proper respect . . . They played www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bayja01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jason Bay's career perfectly, didn't they? . . . Anyone who is mad the Sox gave up Masterson for Martinez has forgotten how much fun it was to have VMart here for a year and half. Have to give up quality to get a player like that.

    SMOOTH MOVE PRESUMING HE ACTUALLY MADE IT
    Trading for www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beckejo02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Josh Beckett and www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lowelmi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Mike Lowell.

    Lowell and Beckett were pivotal in winning the 2007 World Series. Beckett could be pivotal in another title or two. www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirha01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Hanley Ramirez is a heck of a talent, but the deal should not be regrettable for either side.

    RIGHT IDEA, MIXED RESULTS:
    www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kimby01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Byung-Hyun Kim, www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/graffto01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Tony Graffanino, www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/renteed01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Edgar Renteria, www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drewj.01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">J.D. Drew, www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/crawfca02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Carl Crawford, www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/loretma01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Mark Loretta, www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reesepo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Pokey Reese, Ellis Burks, John Olerud, www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wellsda01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">David Wells, www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/crispco01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Coco Crisp, www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hinsker01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Eric Hinske, www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tavarju01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Julian Tavarez, www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/caseyse01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Sean Casey, www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kotsama01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Mark Kotsay, www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/colonba01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Bartolo Colon, www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/byrdpa01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Paul Byrd, www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/baldero01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Rocco Baldelli, www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larocad01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Adam LaRoche, www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/scutama01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Marco Scutaro, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcdonda02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Darnell McDonald.

    If you consider the www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hillesh02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Shea Hillenbrand for BK Kim deal a bad one, look at Kim's game logs during the 2003 season after he took over as closer, replacing the "committee." They wouldn't have made the postseason without him . . . Crawford will never be worth $142 million, but he will be in the "smooth move" category before his time with the Sox is over . . . I feel like John Olerud could sign with the Sox now and hit .280 with 20 doubles the rest of the way. Helmet power! . . . Can't bring myself to rate the admirable Ellis Burks any lower than this, even though he was injured virtually all of 2004.

    RIGHT IDEA, LOUSY RESULTS
    www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sauersc01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Scott Sauerbeck, www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smoltjo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">John Smoltz, www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gagneer01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Eric Gagne, www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pennybr01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Brad Penny, www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riskeda01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">David Riske, www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/camermi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Mike Cameron, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mendora01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Ramiro Mendoza, www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=cruz--012jos,cruzjo02,cruz--013jos&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jose Cruz, www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paytoja01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jay Payton, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/millewa04.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Wade Miller, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mantema01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Matt Mantei, www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bardjo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Josh Bard, www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=penaca01,pena--006car,pena--005car,pena--004car,pena--003car&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Carlos Pena, www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pineijo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Joel Pineiro, www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/romerj.01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">J.C. Romero, www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kotchca01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Casey Kotchman, www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hermije01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jeremy Hermida.

    Gagne was an epic flop, but the only way you can say it was a bad idea is to point out that the Red Sox knew, as evidenced in the Mitchell Report, that he was a product of PEDs . . . Still wish it had worked out for Smoltz here. That would have been fun.

    WRONG IDEA, MIXED RESULTS
    www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/matsuda01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Daisuke Matsuzaka, www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mirabdo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Doug Mirabelli, www.baseball-reference.com/player_search.cgi?results=greenni01,green-001nic&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Nick Green, www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/patteer01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Eric Patterson.

    Let's admit it. Red Sox scouts should have had a better idea that Dice-K's stuff might not translate quite so well to the major leagues.

    WRONG IDEA, LOUSY RESULTS:
    www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jenksbo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Bobby Jenks, www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/suppaje01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jeff Suppan, www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lackejo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">John Lackey, www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/penawi01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Wily Mo Pena, www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/halamjo01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">John Halama, www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemema01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Matt Clement, www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsja02.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Jason Johnson, www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jarvike01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Kevin Jarvis, www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/seaneru01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Rudy Seanez (all 14 times they had him), www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cashke01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Kevin Cash (all 15 times they had him).

    The summer of Jarvis and Johnson will haunt me forever . . . I'm tired of Jenks's act . . . It's cool Wily Mo is back in the big leagues -- he's only 29 -- but I'm glad it's not with the Sox. He's the worst defensive outfielder I've ever seen . . . I know Clement was an All-Star. Decent half-season. But I start hyperventilating when I think about how close they reportedly came to trading www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lowede01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Derek Lowe for him during the 2004 season.

    HEY EPSTEIN! TELL US AGAIN WHAT YOU SAW IN THAT STIFF

    www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lugoju01.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker" target="_blank">Julio Lugo.

    The worst. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tartarus12. Show tartarus12's posts

    Re: Evaluating Theo's history of trading

    How much time did you spend on a post that nobody will read?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Evaluating Theo's history of trading

    but hey, theo is the best gm in the league according to some people. Cuz ya know he makes so many good moves. lol He gets the players no other teams want and overpays to get those guys. 
     
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