Excellent read on pitching depth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Excellent read on pitching depth

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24426658/red-sox-cardinals-wise-to-retain-rotation-depth

    Hope you enjoy ...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    Oops - except for the Pirates ....

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    Big reason why they didn't deal Dempster. Buchholz while he has the talent, was out 3 Months last year. In turn we had to deal an up and coming SS because of it. I think Ben doesn't want that to happen again.

    I really expect if their is injuries, the Sox will use their Prospects as Back-ups. Remember after this year Dempster and Peavy are probably gone, got to see what these kids got.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree 100%. Heard many a poster hear say trade Dempster or Peavy just for the sake of freeing up $ in case we need help elsewhere. No one should feel sorry for RS financially, after winning WS last year and probably earning an extra 50 mil in doing so. If RS need to make a move to help team they can afford it! With all the big contracts coming off books next yr 2015 cap will not be an issue. Trading either Peavy or Dempster just for salary relief makes no sense, if you can get something in return then must consider it w/ depth RS have. Dempster you can pencil in for 200 IP [something very important to a rotation / even more so if he's your 5 guy] and Peavy when healthy can be a top starter. As I like to say " It's all about the PITCHING!"

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    Of course it depends on the return, but I hope that the Sox do not trade any of their starters.  The old adage about never having enough starting pitching is true.

    I remember going into the 2006 season, the Sox thought they had an excess of SP.  I believe they had 7 potential starters.  They traded Arroyo, then Papelbon decided he wanted to remain the closer, rather than starting.   We could have used Arroyo that year.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Trading away Dempster for nothing but salary relief is IMO a good enough positive return. If we can shed his contract we should do it. There are better alternatives than Dempster as our 6th-8th SP. His ERA after July 10 was 5.43-not good enough. We have Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Peavy, and Doubront as our rotation and Workman will be in ST as a SP too. Britton has always been a SP, and there is Webster and the other kids as alternatives. Dempster should be dumped if we can dump him, even if we get a bag of golf balls in return. His salary could be used elsewhere if not now, by midseason for sure.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Trading away Dempster for nothing but salary relief is IMO a good enough positive return. If we can shed his contract we should do it. There are better alternatives than Dempster as our 6th-8th SP. His ERA after July 10 was 5.43-not good enough. We have Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Peavy, and Doubront as our rotation and Workman will be in ST as a SP too. Britton has always been a SP, and there is Webster and the other kids as alternatives. Dempster should be dumped if we can dump him, even if we get a bag of golf balls in return. His salary could be used elsewhere if not now, by midseason for sure.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pumpsie,

    Dempster is a proven big league pitcher who's worth more than a bucket of balls. expendable, yes, but they won't give him away either...my guess is that if all of the starters make it out of camp healthy he'll pitch out of the pen if not traded before...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Trading away Dempster for nothing but salary relief is IMO a good enough positive return. If we can shed his contract we should do it. There are better alternatives than Dempster as our 6th-8th SP. His ERA after July 10 was 5.43-not good enough. We have Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Peavy, and Doubront as our rotation and Workman will be in ST as a SP too. Britton has always been a SP, and there is Webster and the other kids as alternatives. Dempster should be dumped if we can dump him, even if we get a bag of golf balls in return. His salary could be used elsewhere if not now, by midseason for sure.

    [/QUOTE]


    Let the relief come next year, Pumpsie.  I think that the insurance of his arm is strong enough to cemment the possibility of trusting the youn guns you mention.  At the very least, wait til the trading deadline, if Britton, Webster and Workman all get the maturation we hope they do.  Heck, some even think that Owens may be ready for the late part of the season.  All of that is really exciting to cpnsider, but as Kim mentioned above, we have had that card dealt to us earlier and allowed Bronson to go buh-by ....     We have this as a luxury right now, but if it develops into a need, we may have the depth needed to keep the Red October sailing!

     

    Heck, Dempster may return to the form of 2 seasons ago and become another nail in the posting of enemies to the wall as we repeat!  :o)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to garyhow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

    [/QUOTE]

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree 100%. Heard many a poster hear say trade Dempster or Peavy just for the sake of freeing up $ in case we need help elsewhere. No one should feel sorry for RS financially, after winning WS last year and probably earning an extra 50 mil in doing so. If RS need to make a move to help team they can afford it! With all the big contracts coming off books next yr 2015 cap will not be an issue. Trading either Peavy or Dempster just for salary relief makes no sense, if you can get something in return then must consider it w/ depth RS have. Dempster you can pencil in for 200 IP [something very important to a rotation / even more so if he's your 5 guy] and Peavy when healthy can be a top starter. As I like to say " It's all about the PITCHING!"

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, yes and yes again!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Trading away Dempster for nothing but salary relief is IMO a good enough positive return. If we can shed his contract we should do it. There are better alternatives than Dempster as our 6th-8th SP. His ERA after July 10 was 5.43-not good enough. We have Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Peavy, and Doubront as our rotation and Workman will be in ST as a SP too. Britton has always been a SP, and there is Webster and the other kids as alternatives. Dempster should be dumped if we can dump him, even if we get a bag of golf balls in return. His salary could be used elsewhere if not now, by midseason for sure.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pumpsie,

    Dempster is a proven big league pitcher who's worth more than a bucket of balls. expendable, yes, but they won't give him away either...my guess is that if all of the starters make it out of camp healthy he'll pitch out of the pen if not traded before...

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, Beantowne...Dempster's value goes beyond his e.r.a. "after July 10th."  They aren't going to move him before the end of spring training, unless they get a better than expected return.  They obviously have a ton of young pitching & he is the consumate professional, exactly the kind of veteran presence that you want the kids to emulate.  

    His value goes beyond the "stats," and the Sox aren't going to just move him for "salary space" at this point.  He's durable enough to give you a lot of innings while keeping the team in most games, which is what you want out of the 5 spot, while also being flexible enough to pitch out of the pen.  

    Right now, on paper, he probably has a less than 50/50 chance to break camp in the rotation, but a lot can change between now & then.  Some posters can't get beyond the "stats," but Dempster's value isn't simply tied to his e.r.a. or what Fangraphs says his on field "WAR" is.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good read...it'll be interesting to see if the Sox baring an injury enter the year without making a deal. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    The chart tells a huge part of the tale.  The Sox used more - even with the extra MLB starters - than anyone else. 


    I just hope they don't deal one of the starters for a poor return.  I know Theo isn't here anymore but one of his weaknesses IMO was when he would deal away a player in a spot we had excess and get squat in return. 

    I balance that with all the good Theo helped with but that was a particular peeve of mine.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Trading away Dempster for nothing but salary relief is IMO a good enough positive return. If we can shed his contract we should do it. There are better alternatives than Dempster as our 6th-8th SP. His ERA after July 10 was 5.43-not good enough. We have Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Peavy, and Doubront as our rotation and Workman will be in ST as a SP too. Britton has always been a SP, and there is Webster and the other kids as alternatives. Dempster should be dumped if we can dump him, even if we get a bag of golf balls in return. His salary could be used elsewhere if not now, by midseason for sure.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pumpsie,

    Dempster is a proven big league pitcher who's worth more than a bucket of balls. expendable, yes, but they won't give him away either...my guess is that if all of the starters make it out of camp healthy he'll pitch out of the pen if not traded before...

    [/QUOTE]

    As of right now the team is right up against the salary cap. Ridding itself of Dempster's bloated salary (just over $13M) gives the team a lot more options to get the midseason help (or help now via trade) at positions that we are not as deep at (3B, CF, RHH power bat). Furthermore, the fact of the matter is that Dempster is not a very good pitcher at all any more. He isn't going to start and it makes no sense to pay a middle reliever that much money if we have a choice. The ONLY thing he gives us is depth at SP-but I would not use him there ahead of Workman, Britton, Webster, and some of the younger arms we have. I am fairly sure that if Cherington could find someone to take him without the Sox having to eat some of his salary he would have been out the door yesterday.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    2004 Red Sox:

    33 GS Martinez (217 IP)

    33 GS D Lowe  (183)

    32 GS Schilling (227)

    30 GS Wakefield (188)

    29 GS Arroyo (179)

    3 GS  B-Y Kim 

    1 GS Astacio

    1 GS Alvarez

    WOW!

     

    2007 Red Sox

    32 GS Matsusaka (205 IP)

    31 GS Wakefield (189)

    30 GS Beckett (201)

    24 GS Schilling (151)

    23 GS Tavarez (135)

    11 GS Lester (63)

    7 GS Gabbard

    3 GS Buchholz

    1 GS Hansack

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    As of right now the team is right up against the salary cap. Ridding itself of Dempster's bloated salary (just over $13M) gives the team a lot more options to get the midseason help (or help now via trade) at positions that we are not as deep at (3B, CF, RHH power bat). Furthermore, the fact of the matter is that Dempster is not a very good pitcher at all any more. He isn't going to start and it makes no sense to pay a middle reliever that much money if we have a choice. The ONLY thing he gives us is depth at SP-but I would not use him there ahead of Workman, Britton, Webster, and some of the younger arms we have. I am fairly sure that if Cherington could find someone to take him without the Sox having to eat some of his salary he would have been out the door yesterday.

     

    Exactly. Paying $13.25M for a 6th starter/Middle reliever does not make sense for a team with their backs against the luxury limit wall.

    I believe Dempster or Peavy will be traded by opening day. Once the FA SP'ersare all signed, there will be a few desperate GMs out there on the phone to Ben offering more than what either is worth.

    The trading away Arroyo example has been over-used, but compare the 2006 SP depth chart to 2014's. In 2006 we had Kyle Snyder, Lenny DiNardo,  Julian Tavarez, Kason Gabbard, Kevin Jarvis, David Pauley, and Devern Hansack and later on, picked up Jason Johnson. See the 2014 list below.

    The other deciding factor involved here is that out of the group of pitchers we have behind Dempster, I feel there is an excellent chance one or two may be better than Dempster, or at least as good. One problem may be that we lose too many games going through the list before we hit on one that does a good job, but I have confidence in this list:

    6) Workman

    7) Britton

    8) Webster

    9) de la Rosa

    10) Wright

    11) Ely

    12) Ranaudo

    13) Barnes

    14) Hinojosa

    15) Owens (maybe by June)

    Others: Couch, Hernandez, Kehrt, or M Pena

    Pretty impressive!

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    Moon already made a couple of points I was going to reply with, primarily 1) how inefficient from a salary standpoint it would be to carry Dempster as a $13 million long reliever/spot starter...it's not like we couldn't put a different pitcher (Workman?) in that role and get the same numbers or better; and 2) how vastly different our situation is today from 2006 in terms of pitching depth. Our starting five/six is also much stronger.

    Something that's never brought up about 2006, by the way...I don't think the problem is that we traded a pitcher, it's that we traded the wrong one. If we'd found a way to dump Wells or Clement on someone that spring, I doubt they'd ever have been missed. But instead we held on to those guys and traded Arroyo, a sure 200-inning pitcher, for a project.

    Something to think about if/when we do trade a starter (and, if everyone is healthy in the spring, I think we will).

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moon already made a couple of points I was going to reply with, primarily 1) how inefficient from a salary standpoint it would be to carry Dempster as a $13 million long reliever/spot starter...it's not like we couldn't put a different pitcher (Workman?) in that role and get the same numbers or better; and 2) how vastly different our situation is today from 2006 in terms of pitching depth. Our starting five/six is also much stronger.

    Something that's never brought up about 2006, by the way...I don't think the problem is that we traded a pitcher, it's that we traded the wrong one. If we'd found a way to dump Wells or Clement on someone that spring, I doubt they'd ever have been missed. But instead we held on to those guys and traded Arroyo, a sure 200-inning pitcher, for a project.

    Something to think about if/when we do trade a starter (and, if everyone is healthy in the spring, I think we will).

    [/QUOTE]

    Good points, and I honestly think that one of these 4 guys can and will be as good as Dempster in 2014...maybe even 2 or 3 of them.

    6) Workman

    7) Britton

    8) Webster

     

    9) de la Rosa

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    For those wanting to trade Dempster----you will probably have to eat a good portion of his $13M. See what he has in the tank in ST and what injuries may delay someone from starting the season.

    His poise, competitiveness and ability are three attributes that some of our young pitchers can benefit from being around not only  Dempster but Peavy as well.

    So would you still trade Dempster if you had to eat 1/2 his salary?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moon already made a couple of points I was going to reply with, primarily 1) how inefficient from a salary standpoint it would be to carry Dempster as a $13 million long reliever/spot starter...it's not like we couldn't put a different pitcher (Workman?) in that role and get the same numbers or better; and 2) how vastly different our situation is today from 2006 in terms of pitching depth. Our starting five/six is also much stronger.

    Something that's never brought up about 2006, by the way...I don't think the problem is that we traded a pitcher, it's that we traded the wrong one. If we'd found a way to dump Wells or Clement on someone that spring, I doubt they'd ever have been missed. But instead we held on to those guys and traded Arroyo, a sure 200-inning pitcher, for a project.

    Something to think about if/when we do trade a starter (and, if everyone is healthy in the spring, I think we will).

    [/QUOTE]

    Good points, and I honestly think that one of these 4 guys can and will be as good as Dempster in 2014...maybe even 2 or 3 of them.

    6) Workman

    7) Britton

    8) Webster

     

    9) de la Rosa

    [/QUOTE]

    The issue is not SHOULD we trade Dempster, its CAN we get rid of him. Its will we be able to unload his bloated salary and not have to eat any of it, or at least much of it. Frankly, I don't think many GMs out there are dumb enough to assume much of the money owed to him as compensation for what he can do on the field. Unfortunately, I think that means he is ours this year, perhaps necessitating trading a more valuable SP piece like Peavy to relieve the logjam at SP. In the end signing Dempster is looking like a mistake.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    For those wanting to trade Dempster----you will probably have to eat a good portion of his $13M. See what he has in the tank in ST and what injuries may delay someone from starting the season.

    His poise, competitiveness and ability are three attributes that some of our young pitchers can benefit from being around not only  Dempster but Peavy as well.

    So would you still trade Dempster if you had to eat 1/2 his salary?



    It won't be half: just look what some guys have signed for so far. Once all the good SP'er are signed, someone will call Ben and make an offer he cannot refuse. At most, Ben will have to pay $3-4M out of the $13.25M owed. That $10M can get us a fine piece elsewhere.

    Tim Lincecum $35M/2

    Wandy Rodriguez $13M/1

    Matt Garza $50M/4

    Ricky Nolasco $49M/4

    Scott Kazmir $22M/2

    Tim Hudson $23M/2

    Bartolo Colon $20M/2

    Dan Haren $10M/1

    Phil Hughes $24M/3

    Josh Johnson $8M/1

     

    Let's wait and see what Arroyo and others get, but if you compare Dempster to guys like him and Kazmir, Haren and Wandy R, I think you'll find Dempster is worth about $10-13M in today's market.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    The depth that the Sox have in the pitching department is deep. Someone said it might be the deepest pool of talent ever assembled in one minor league system. The crux of the matter is that they are unproven. Webster came up last year for a couple of cups of coffee and all he did was spill the coffee on the mound, they had a modicum of success with Britton and Workman, and they even had RDLR in for some exposure.  What happens going forward depends on the players themselves when they are given the opportunity, do I expect them all to excel? No but if one or two claim a spot then someone has to go, my guess is Dempster is on the trade list, but I don't expect his departure to be rushed. Ben will wait for the best deal, and rightly so. Ryan Dempster is a proven MLB tested pitcher and he shouldn't be given away,I would suspect they will try and trade him for a positional player at a position of need, more than likely a guy who still needs developement, and my guess is a lower tier 1B man would be a good choice.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The depth that the Sox have in the pitching department is deep. Someone said it might be the deepest pool of talent ever assembled in one minor league system. The crux of the matter is that they are unproven. Webster came up last year for a couple of cups of coffee and all he did was spill the coffee on the mound, they had a modicum of success with Britton and Workman, and they even had RDLR in for some exposure.  What happens going forward depends on the players themselves when they are given the opportunity, do I expect them all to excel? No but if one or two claim a spot then someone has to go, my guess is Dempster is on the trade list, but I don't expect his departure to be rushed. Ben will wait for the best deal, and rightly so. Ryan Dempster is a proven MLB tested pitcher and he shouldn't be given away,I would suspect they will try and trade him for a positional player at a position of need, more than likely a guy who still needs developement, and my guess is a lower tier 1B man would be a good choice.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't disagree, but let's say we trade Dempster and his whole salary for a bag of balls, the $13M freed up would allow us to sign or trade for a very good player or two and still stay below the luxury limit.

    We could sign Drew and still have something left over. I'd trade Dempster for Drew.

    Guys like Coco Crisp signed for $7.5M. We could have signed him and Mujica for what Dempster cost... or two similar players.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The depth that the Sox have in the pitching department is deep. Someone said it might be the deepest pool of talent ever assembled in one minor league system. The crux of the matter is that they are unproven. Webster came up last year for a couple of cups of coffee and all he did was spill the coffee on the mound, they had a modicum of success with Britton and Workman, and they even had RDLR in for some exposure.  What happens going forward depends on the players themselves when they are given the opportunity, do I expect them all to excel? No but if one or two claim a spot then someone has to go, my guess is Dempster is on the trade list, but I don't expect his departure to be rushed. Ben will wait for the best deal, and rightly so. Ryan Dempster is a proven MLB tested pitcher and he shouldn't be given away,I would suspect they will try and trade him for a positional player at a position of need, more than likely a guy who still needs developement, and my guess is a lower tier 1B man would be a good choice.

    [/QUOTE]

    Webster also showed a tremendous amount of talent and upside in his time here.  His issues are in his control.  Keep in mind he didn't really start pitching until he was drafted. Also keep in mind he is 2 years younger than Workman, and just made his MLB debut last year.  While he got roughed up, he showed big time swing and miss stuff, I think he got something like 23 swings and misses in one game which is not something most pitchers can do.

    The reality, most players go threw growing pains, and you throw a guy like that into the back of your rotation and sink or swim with him.

    But the key word here is depth, if a starter goes down and Workman or Dempster can't slot into the rotation they give Webster a shot and maybe he shines with another season under his belt, and if doesn't maybe Barnes does, and if he doesn't maybe RDLR, or Ranaudo do....

    Odds are one 1-2 of Workman/Ranaudo/Barnes/Webster/RDLR/Wright/Owens could add serious value to the back end of this rotation by years end. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Excellent read on pitching depth

    Let's wait and see what Arroyo and others get, but if you compare Dempster to guys like him and Kazmir, Haren and Wandy R, I think you'll find Dempster is worth about $10-13M in today's market.


    The fact that this is the going rate for a back-of-the-rotation type pitcher of Dempster's stature makes this poster more than a bit nostalgic for the days of Tim Wakefield giving us 180 innings of 4-something ERA for $4 million or so every season.

     
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