Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : that's exactly right, danny. Common sense rules here. Take  25 people. 17 feel the same way, are they, being the majority, wrong?
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    That is some seriously flawed logic.  Majorities are wrong all the time, there is a toxic power of group think.  Ask Galileo or Columbus if majorities have ever been wrong.  Do you agree with the outcome of every election you've ever voted in? I Doubt it.

    At this point it is hard to think of the Red Sox players as much more than a bunch of spoiled children.  So all we have here are a bunch of spoiled children going to the principal to complain about the teacher.

     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    My initial impression is to stand by the manager (assuming he's doing as instructed) and to make example of a couple of the players.  There is no room for mutiny on a ball team.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : Who said it didn't take place?  Not me.  In fact, my points assume the meeting did take place.  And my main point remains:  two managers in two years, both fired because of player ineptitude. Francona because he lost control, Bobby because he over-controlled or failed to communicate or left Lester in too long or said the wrong thing to the press or whatever.  My ancillary point is that Lester got better after getting tagged for 11 runs. Maybe he got the point. I don't of course think Bobby V wasn't trying to make a point.  He just didn't want to burn up his bullpen after his ace starter got tagged for 9 runs in the first two innings.  Funny thing is, Lester got through the next two innings unscatched, but then gave up his 4th dinger and 2 more runs in the 5th.  But innings 3 and 4 were ones the bullpen didn't have to pitch. Cold-blooded, yes, but necessary. Our real disagreement is you honestly believe that managers inspire players to pitch shutouts, get clutch hits, etc, and I disagree. Pitchers make their own destinies by pitching well, almost completely independent of pep talks by managers. They are as likely to pitch well if their girlfriends get them to look through their eyelids, wear garter belts, or whatever. Same goes for hitters.  Managers make a difference with their lineups and their substitutions, especially relievers, during the game.  I think Bobby V has done pretty well at both.    I do think it's possible Youk played badly on purpose--as Manny did in 2008 to get out of Boston, which is what Youk wanted to do--but not likely.   But I also don't think Middlebrooks played well because Bobby V inspired him--ditto Ortiz, ditto Ross, ditto AGon in July/August (in fact AGon's hitting has been fantastic since the July 27 meeting with 18 rbi's in August already), etc, etc.  Pedroia may well be mad at Bobby, but that isn't why his hitting is off, I don't think.  He is still getting over that thumb injury or his timing is off or whatever.  His defense remains excellent.  CC wants in the worst way to show what he can do, regardless of who the manager is.  That is even more true of Ellsbury who still wants that big long-term contract.  I liked to give Francona credit when he was here for being a good manager, but let's not kid ourselves.  He was successful because he had great talent and not so successful when he didn't--see his stint at Philly. See Joe Torre wherever he was before he got the Yankees job.   Last year Francona had hands down the best lineup in baseball and still couldn't get to the playoffs.  Why?  Because the September pitching was the worst in MLB (highest ERA anyway).  This year Bobby V got hit with the double whammy.  The rotation started bad and stayed bad, period.  Lester and Beckett have both been off.  Bard, not Bobby V's idea, was a mistake.  Matsuzaka--no way.  Buchholz started out horrible but now looks like an ace.  Cook, up and down.  And the lineup has been a patchwork quilt.  Three months without CC and Ells.  Ross, Pedroia, Youk, Sweeney and Middlebrooks on the DL, and now Ortiz and Middlebrooks are both on it.  Only 1b, C and SS have remained healthy out of 9 lineup positions.  The reason why these guys won't play for Bobby V is primarily because they are on the dadgum DL.  Knute Rockne couldn't get these guys to play for him--ditto the Gipper. It could have been a triple whammy because the bullpen should have been a disaster after the FO took out Pap and Bard and brought in two stiffs, Melancon and Bailey.  But Bobby V made it work, somehow. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    max, you don't actually read my posts, so I'm not going to go into a repeat mode, but suffice to say that managing isn't about inspiring players to play better as much as its showing the players respect, showing the players they are protected from both media scrutiny and manager scrutiny, that they won't be embarrassed publicly by their manager. That the manager will use sound lineups and make sound moves. BV has shown me consistently he's on the Island of Dr. Thoreau. He doesn't even know if the team is coming or going, he sleeps a lot, or he looks sleepy. He lacks energy. He also has about 17 players who want him fired. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : That is some seriously flawed logic.  Majorities are wrong all the time, there is a toxic power of group think.  Ask Galileo or Columbus if majorities have ever been wrong.  Do you agree with the outcome of every election you've ever voted in? I Doubt it. At this point it is hard to think of the Red Sox players as much more than a bunch of spoiled children.  So all we have here are a bunch of spoiled children going to the principal to complain about the teacher.  
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    apples and oranges, cowards. this isn't a political election, who's left or right. This is a work force, working for someone they obviously don't want to work for. you take any corporation setting of 25 and 17 feel the same way about a supervisor....there's more than something to it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    When you don't respect your boss, ultimately you lose direction and you become a bitter employee. Doesn't matter if it's sports or non-sports business.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Guys making MILLIONS a year and not performing. Lets blame the manager! I have an idea, why dont you cry babies walk away from your contracts and free us from your dreadful performances! 
    I officially hate this team of overpaid sissies! Im Done until they are gone, no more jersey's no more hats no more you know what! That goes for both Agon and Pedey the rat!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]When you don't respect your boss, ultimately you lose direction and you become a bitter employee. Doesn't matter if it's sports or non-sports business.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    agree, danny. can the job still get done? sure it can, but how well is the question, when you have unhappy, unmotivated workers, who don't want to be there. You work as a team, if there's an anchor, you're going no where, in a hurry
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Exactly.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    poor players..especially Lester .. i feel for him..but why wasnt he embarrassed about last september??? that took a whole off season to comment on...but leave him too long and they tex John henry right away???? lololol...this team is softer than pudding
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Roy perfect perfect perfect......

    Ask yourself this:
    Do you want to work for a boss who pits co-workers against each other?
    Do you want to work for a boss who doesn't communicate?
    Do you want to work for a boss who makes sarcastic remarks instead of constructive criticism?
    Do you want to work for a boss who ridicules you in public instead of discussing things with you in private?
    Do you want to work for a boss who plays games and in-office politics instead of being strait forward?
    Sure, the players have issues and they might not respect him, but maybe it's because he doesn't respect them or treat them with respect.

    Respect is a two-way street.

    ROY you are so damn right. He started losing this team back in spring training.
    He has made numerous missteps that we know of. Only the players know what else he has said or done in the clubhouse. The FO knew what they were getting. Many here hated the BV signing I know I did. It was a mistake just move on....

    All of the comments about writers making stuff up. Look we know it happens, they throw sh1t against the wall and see what sticks. That is not to say it all is a lie However if a player saysherwise then I question the writer.
    I do agree that if it fits your narrative nothing siad that goes against that narrative will (with most fans) will never sway their argument or stance.



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from august271985. Show august271985's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    If you're taking the side of the players, then you probably have an unhealthy crush on whoever you dream about at night 'cause these bunch of whiny-azz scumbags do not deserve to wear the uniform. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]I think it's safe to say, Valentine won't be back next year.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    I would rather not see Pedroia back next year. These fat cat spoiled pampered buffoons have no respect for their manager at all. Thats part of the country club atmosphere that is largely responsible for them becoming a group of loser-bums this year. It has to end-NOW. The FO must support Valentine and make an example of some of these moron players whose IQs are less than their shoe sizes. How incredibly arrogant. Screw Pedroia; screw Gonzobum.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ws2012. Show Ws2012's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Good for them BV is a buffoon.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Finally, a post to the point...good work,2012
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : I would rather not see Pedroia back next year. These fat cat spoiled pampered buffoons have no respect for their manager at all. Thats part of the country club atmosphere that is largely responsible for them becoming a group of loser-bums this year. It has to end-NOW. The FO must support Valentine and make an example of some of these moron players whose IQs are less than their shoe sizes. How incredibly arrogant. Screw Pedroia; screw Gonzobum.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Respect has to be earned, pumpsie. it's a two way street, show it, you'll get it. They dont have to like him, but  when the respect isnt there, its all over.  I find it hard to believe the majority are wrong. We'll find out. When francona was fired, it all came out.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]BV overthrew Atchison and Padilla..basically killing them for the rest of the season. Brilliant work by the tactition who has to use 5 relievers in every game.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    DC, the alternative to using five RPs in each game was to allow our disgusting SPs to continue flailing about on the mound. Well he did that with Lester and the whiney spoiled SOBs that masquerade as ball players didn't like that either. Maybe they would like it better playing for the Royals. I think someone has to be made an example of-maybe more than one person. What an incredibly hateable team, worst in memory.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : apples and oranges, cowards. this isn't a political election, who's left or right. This is a work force, working for someone they obviously don't want to work for. you take any corporation setting of 25 and 17 feel the same way about a supervisor....there's more than something to it.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    The dynamics are different but the general false premise that "more = right" is still just as flawed.  To compare it to other work places is  "apples and oranges" because in most work places the supervisor is paid more than those he supervisors, not like Agon making 20 times what Bobby V makes. 

    Pedrioa use to be Tito's best buddy, so is him not liking the new guy really that credible?  The fact that they were driven to call this meeting because "Lester was left in too long" tells me this is petty in the first place.  Lester stunk and Bobby V left it out there and this hurts Lester's ego?  Give me a break.  It also should be noted that since that outing Lester has pitched much better.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : Respect has to be earned, pumpsie. it's a two way street, show it, you'll get it. I find it hard to believe the majority are wrong. We'll find out. When francona was fired, it all came out.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    If you are one of the clowns on the team that underwent the WORST CHOKE IN BASEBALL HISTORY last season, you got NOTHING to say about your new boss until the end of the season at least. They respect NO ONE, not Francona, and not Valentine, and certainly not the fans. Its an atmosphere of entitlement, and I will guarantee you this: we will win NOTHING until these buffoons get their whiney miserable attitudes under control.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    cowards, that was just the final straw, the leaving in Lester. I'm sure the players had a litany of things to discuss with owners.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : The dynamics are different but the general false premise that "more = right" is still just as flawed.  To compare it to other work places is  "apples and oranges" because in most work places the supervisor is paid more than those he supervisors, not like Agon making 20 times what Bobby V makes.  Pedrioa use to be Tito's best buddy, so is him not liking the new guy really that credible?  The fact that they were driven to call this meeting because "Lester was left in too long" tells me this is petty in the first place.  Lester stunk and Bobby V left it out there and this hurts Lester's ego?  Give me a break.  It also should be noted that since that outing Lester has pitched much better.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    this ins't about money, cowards, it's about work environment and respect.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : If you are one of the clowns on the team that underwent the WORST CHOKE IN BASEBALL HISTORY last season, you got NOTHING to say about your new boss until the end of the season at least. They respect NO ONE, not Francona, and not Valentine, and certainly not the fans. Its an atmosphere of entitlement, and I will guarantee you this: we will win NOTHING until these buffoons get their whiney miserable attitudes under control.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    Last year is past, pumpsie. Francona is gone, Theo is gone. It's a new day. new manager, new GM. I've worked in corporate all my life. Management for half of it. this is how it works. You get togehter hash things out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : If you are one of the clowns on the team that underwent the WORST CHOKE IN BASEBALL HISTORY last season, you got NOTHING to say about your new boss until the end of the season at least. They respect NO ONE, not Francona, and not Valentine, and certainly not the fans. Its an atmosphere of entitlement, and I will guarantee you this: we will win NOTHING until these buffoons get their whiney miserable attitudes under control.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    The players are children and as you say anyone who was there last year, should just shut up and play, because Bobby V wasn't there last September.

    I by no means agree with everything Bobby V has done or said but the fact that you have millionaires running to the owners to complain about what amounts to some childish garbage is a joke.

    Bobby V puts you in the line-up every day Pedey, what you do after that is 100% on you.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : this inst about money, cowards, it's about the work environment and respect.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    That is just naive. 

    I do agree it is about respect, self respect, and the childish players having none of it.
     
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