Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    As Jerry Seinfeld famously said in one of his routines, "Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify, because the players are always changing; the team could move to another city. You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it."
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    idiots, it's actually one of the most accurate posts ever attributed to modern baseball. It has bothered me as a fan for so many years that the players get trashed here daily. Yes, you could call me a players' fan, so in that I'm like Tito was as far as how he felt about the players. I was always Sox first, players second though in my loyalty and in who I root for. But here's the problem--it's like Seinfeld jokes. At what point, do you end up rooting for the jersey, knowing that you really don't care much for the roster?? 

    The likeability factor is low on the 2012 Sox--Beckett, AGON, CC--these are guys who can rub you the wrong way with their differing cases of indifference--(I like AGON, but I like him for the same reason I ultimately have liked most Sox--the guys who can perform in a Sox jersey are the guys that earn why I like them--it is about performance when it's all said and done.). Watching any Beckett postgame press conference is like watching Robert Shaw scratching the chalkboard in Jaws. 

    I loved Tiant, Willoughby, Burgmeier, Stanley, Tudor, Campbell, Yaz, Lynn, Rice, Greenwell, Burks, Boggs, Fisk, Evans, Nomar, Manny, Wakefield, Tek, Lowe, Mueller, Lyle, Lee, Barrett, Burleson, Hobson, and i was even Shea Hillenbrand's biggest fan when he got shipped out of town despite being a big contributor to Sox baseball...Today's team? Maybe I'm just too old now, older than anyone on the roster--maybe that's why I liked Wakefield so much--close to my age. But I enjoy watching some of the young guys perform, and it's exciting to see Morales or Doubront throw a good game or Mortenson do a fine job out of the pen, or Aceves throw a lightning inning. Pedroia and Ellsbury, when they are on, are fun to watch. But for the most part, I think I do root for the jersey now, the clothes. It's not much fun to root for the players on the team as much anymore. Especially when you lose like this bunch. 

    I am highly critical of BV and BC, but I'm  not naive to know that the players have been flat out terrible all season, and this team just isn't fit to win.
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    When things appear to be this disfunctinal in any organization it is a direct reflection of upper managment.
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    MichFan, problem is that upper management and the players can't be fired, LL is not going to be fired tomorrow and Henry is not going to relinquish his ownership. LL brought in BV over BC's live body. The players might be terrible, but they can't be fired as a group. So you either change the dynamic the only way you can--fire the manager--or you accept the team finishing at .500 or below. The team has made its choice--and so have pretty much 80 percent of the fans even on this forum--rather than hope for a team comeback for a mediocre WC race, the would rather sulk about the whiny players and trade the culprits (sounds like last year all over again) and KEEP the manager. It's noble, and maybe it's ethically sound, but it doesn't help the team win. 

    This manager is not capable of getting this team to turn it around--answer--change the manager. I've used Brian Sutter as the most recent sports example of changing coaches mid-season and winning a championship title--The Cup for the Kings. No one said a word about Murray the previous coach when Sutter was turning the Kings from mediocre to Stanley Cup giant. No one would talk about or lament about BV if the Sox went on a 7-game win streak under Jerry Royster or any interim guy.
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? : idiots, it's actually one of the most accurate posts ever attributed to modern baseball. It has bothered me as a fan for so many years that the players get trashed here daily. Yes, you could call me a players' fan, so in that I'm like Tito was as far as how he felt about the players. I was always Sox first, players second though in my loyalty and in who I root for. But here's the problem--it's like Seinfeld jokes. At what point, do you end up rooting for the jersey, knowing that you really don't care much for the roster??  The likeability factor is low on the 2012 Sox--Beckett, AGON, CC--these are guys who can rub you the wrong way with their differing cases of indifference--(I like AGON, but I like him for the same reason I ultimately have liked most Sox--the guys who can perform in a Sox jersey are the guys that earn why I like them--it is about performance when it's all said and done.). Watching any Beckett postgame press conference is like watching Robert Shaw scratching the chalkboard in Jaws.  I loved Tiant, Willoughby, Burgmeier, Stanley, Tudor, Campbell, Yaz, Lynn, Rice, Greenwell, Burks, Boggs, Fisk, Evans, Nomar, Manny, Wakefield, Tek, Lowe, Mueller, Lyle, Lee, Barrett, Burleson, Hobson, and i was even Shea Hillenbrand's biggest fan when he got shipped out of town despite being a big contributor to Sox baseball...Today's team? Maybe I'm just too old now, older than anyone on the roster--maybe that's why I liked Wakefield so much--close to my age. But I enjoy watching some of the young guys perform, and it's exciting to see Morales or Doubront throw a good game or Mortenson do a fine job out of the pen, or Aceves throw a lightning inning. Pedroia and Ellsbury, when they are on, are fun to watch. But for the most part, I think I do root for the jersey now, the clothes. It's not much fun to root for the players on the team as much anymore. Especially when you lose like this bunch.  I am highly critical of BV and BC, but I'm  not naive to know that the players have been flat out terrible all season, and this team just isn't fit to win.
    Posted by dannycater



     I get the Beckett, Lackey perception, danny but why Crawford?  He undoubtedly had a terrible first year, but he admitted as much, apologized to the fans for it and vowed to back and be the player we thought we were getting this season. He decided to play to try to contribute this year instead of having season ending surgery and has looked like the player her was in Tampa.
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction? :  I get the Beckett, Lackey perception, danny but why Crawford?  He undoubtedly had a terrible first year, but he admitted as much, apologized to the fans for it and vowed to back and be the player we thought we were getting this season. He decided to play to try to contribute this year instead of having season ending surgery and has looked like the player her was in Tampa.
    Posted by J-BAY

    I don't know if it's the fragile ego thing, the moping he used to do, or the excuses (including throwing Francona under bus, questioning BV's information flow (yet another player irked by BV's actions), but I don't think he's very likeable. I mean, he is producing, and I am glad he's doing that, but it's also under this little umbrella where he has to get surgery for the elbow and he can't risk his arm, and he just seems a bit limited. I don't see him ever smiling. In Tampa, he seems like he enjoyed himself. I remember at the All-Star Game when he got MVP and he was very fun-loving and quotable back then. Now I see this guy who just seems to mope around even in postgame press conferences, so blase about everything. He's also a reflection of the team's problems---overpaid, high contract with high expectations--team has collapsed once in 2011 with him in LF and is an under .500 team this year with him in LF. So call it a number of reasons. Bad vibes? I'm not racist, btw. I loved, loved Ellis Burks, Tommy Harper, Jim Rice, OilCan for all his nuttiness, Moret, and of course my favorite pitcher of alltime Cuban black El Tiante.

     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Don't forget that the greatest Sox pitcher of alltime is/was black...Mr. Martinez.
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?:
    I think the whole thing is way overblown, and people are only talking about it because either it's too painful to talk about the real issues facing this team, or they only want to call themselves Red Sox fans and  and then turn around and bash the team. But that's just my opinion. It is interesting that you don't see too many admitted Yankees fans on these doom and gloom, the sky is falling threads. Mostly all you see is so called Red Sox fans. As far as the Red Sox players liking Bobby V., who ever said they needed to? Do you think Billy Martin's guys all liked him? Or Dick Williams, Casey Stengel or John McGraw? In fact, without looking it up I'd be willing to wager that more championships have been won by universally loathed managers than universally loved ones. I guess this is just a long winded way of saying two things. First, the Red Sox as a team really need to suck it up. Second, I still think Bobby deserves a real shot. I didn't like his hiring, I think moon and some others will remember I wanted DeMarlo Hale, but I still think he deserves a shot at managing the Red Sox when the deck isn't stacked against him. If the Red Sox do retain him, he should allowed to name his own coaches, and he should probably sit down with ownership and reach some sort of agreement regarding disciplining players. Now I know I'll get flamed for having said this, and probably many of you are questioning my sanity right now. All I can say is it won't be the first time my soundness of mind was called into question. However, I think there are at least 3 reasons to bring back Valentine for the rest of his contract. First, what kind of message does it send to the rest of baseball for the Red Sox to fire 2 managers in 2 years? Second, the guy who really should be managing the Red Sox has his contract come up at the same time as BV. Third, we have to pay him anyway. Oh, and a fourth, I like what Bobby did with the bullpen this year, especially considering he lost his closer before the season even started.
    Posted by carnie


    GREAT POST!
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    My reaction. Not a true reflection of fact.
     
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    Re: Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership-Your Reaction?

    Look at the above doctored photos. Which two regulars are proficient in Photoshop software. Pinstripezac and 2004Idiots. IMO they are one and the same.
     
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