Extension for Cespedes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Extension for Cespedes

    We now all know Cespedes will be a FA following 2015 season.  His contract prohibits him from any arbitration and qualifying offers.  It's either going to be Sox trading Cespedes at some point or extend him before he walks.  Sox need his bat and I, like many of you, think Sox will at least try to extend him before end of 15 season, or even during this off-season if both sides have mutual interest.  Cespedes will be 30 when he hits open market.  Even if we land Stanton, many think Cespedes should be extended and paired up with Stanton in our lineup for many more years.  Cespedes-healthy Ortiz-Stanton just sound damn good.  Now back to Cespedes, what do you think he will cost to extend before he reaches FA? He's due to earn $10.5M next season.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    22 homers 80 ribbies? Trot Nixon type in reality... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Some reports that Cespedes would have hit 24 HRs by now if he played all season with the Sox.  So he will most likely hit more HRs than he did with the A's.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    anyhow just yankin your chain... I like him on the team... but he could not do enough the rest of the way in 2014 to warrant any big contract... his career numbers in the majors are not amazing.... he will need to play it out in 2015 a full year at fenway.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that he hasn't had jaw dropping season so far but I think he, as a player, fits in this club.  His defense, arm, base running, power even though he never hit more than 26 yet.  Like I said, reports say he should have 24 HRs by now if he played with the Sox from day 1, which likely means 30+ for the season.  I don't think Sox traded away for 1 yr of Cespedes though.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    The Sox gamble on Cespedes has to do with the ballpark factor, yes, but also the notion that he is still shy of 3 years removed from Cuban ball.  Still raw in many ways.  Another year, studying at the bejewelled feet of Big Papi, Yoenis still has 'upside'.  It will be interesting to see how they approach an extension.  If they could lock him up now for reasonable years and dollars, as opposed to waiting til next summer when the price could get significantly higher, it might be worth the gamble.


         

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    anyhow just yankin your chain... I like him on the team... but he could not do enough the rest of the way in 2014 to warrant any big contract... his career numbers in the majors are not amazing.... he will need to play it out in 2015 a full year at fenway.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. His OBP is pretty horrible. As I have written elsewhere, his career numbers are not dissimilar to those of Gomes. Defensively he is, of course, much better than Gomes. If he could be had for the right price he might make a decent ancillary piece as a right fielder, but we will need much more to rejuvenate our anemic offense.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox gamble on Cespedes has to do with the ballpark factor, yes, but also the notion that he is still shy of 3 years removed from Cuban ball.  Still raw in many ways.  Another year, studying at the bejewelled feet of Big Papi, Yoenis still has 'upside'.  It will be interesting to see how they approach an extension.  If they could lock him up now for reasonable years and dollars, as opposed to waiting til next summer when the price could get significantly higher, it might be worth the gamble.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point.  If Sox gamble and extend him this off-season, 4 yr extension sounds reasonable around $70-80M IMO.  But 30+ HR 2015 season will require more $$ and yrs after 2015 season.  And Cespedes probably will want to test the market if he starts hot next season.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    anyhow just yankin your chain... I like him on the team... but he could not do enough the rest of the way in 2014 to warrant any big contract... his career numbers in the majors are not amazing.... he will need to play it out in 2015 a full year at fenway.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. His OBP is pretty horrible. As I have written elsewhere, his career numbers are not dissimilar to those of Gomes. Defensively he is, of course, much better than Gomes. If he could be had for the right price he might make a decent ancillary piece as a right fielder, but we will need much more to rejuvenate our anemic offense.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]


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    The Gomes number comparison doesn;t really hold up though.  Cespedes is an everyday player.  If Gomes was in the lineup on the regular vs. righties as well as lefties, his numbers would be horrible.  Not to mention the defense and speed factor.

    And, I don't claim to be any kind of scout, but, as I said in my post above, I really believe Cespedes is still on his way up; his low OBP is a result of his coming up in the Cuban game.  He is still learning here.  Thats my educated hunch.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    anyhow just yankin your chain... I like him on the team... but he could not do enough the rest of the way in 2014 to warrant any big contract... his career numbers in the majors are not amazing.... he will need to play it out in 2015 a full year at fenway.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. His OBP is pretty horrible. As I have written elsewhere, his career numbers are not dissimilar to those of Gomes. Defensively he is, of course, much better than Gomes. If he could be had for the right price he might make a decent ancillary piece as a right fielder, but we will need much more to rejuvenate our anemic offense.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think 20-25 HR is his ceiling.  And Cespedes and Gomes comparison is just too cruel.  So we traded Lester and Gomes for Gomes?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox gamble on Cespedes has to do with the ballpark factor, yes, but also the notion that he is still shy of 3 years removed from Cuban ball.  Still raw in many ways.  Another year, studying at the bejewelled feet of Big Papi, Yoenis still has 'upside'.  It will be interesting to see how they approach an extension.  If they could lock him up now for reasonable years and dollars, as opposed to waiting til next summer when the price could get significantly higher, it might be worth the gamble.

     

         

    [/QUOTE]

    Good Post, I think they have to. Also, Teams value Draft Picks today, if he does get to FA, he will be sought after from many teams. He doesn't cost a Draft Pick from signing team. GM's really factor that in. Almost like a Lester situation, only this will be next year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    It's a gamble, but if the Sox have any notion of extending him, doing so this offseason would be their best bet.  Offer him a 5 year contract which includes 2015 (in other words, 4 additional years).  Cespedes would only be 33 at the end of the contract.  I think the Sox would be willing to do this.  Cespedes gets a raise for next season plus the security of 4 additional years.

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Not only did Cespedes play half his games in pitcher friendly Oakland, he also played many away games in Seattle and Anaheim.  However, his home OPS was about 90 points higher than his away OPS and he has an .868 OPS in Anaheim, so go figure.

    I think we are in a Catch-22 situation here:

    If Cespedes does very well, he will want a 5+ year extension. He will be 30 next October, so why would Sox management choose this guy to break from their philosophy of not signing 30+ year olds to market value long term deals?

    If he does poorly, we shouldn't want to extend him anyways, unless he'll take a one year deal in hopes of re-setting his market value by playing well in 2016.

    I still don't get why we traded Lester for a one year player and comp pick.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    I don't think 20-25 HR is his ceiling.  And Cespedes and Gomes comparison is just too cruel.  So we traded Lester and Gomes for Gomes?

    By itself, the fact that Cespedes hits both lefties and righties well puts him miles ahead of Gomes, who is a part-time player at best. Really not a good comparison.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaysofYaz. Show DaysofYaz's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    I thought i read somewhere that his homerun count wouldn't be any better at Fenway? Most of his homeruns are of the low liner variety which would only be a long single or double with the monster.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to DaysofYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I thought i read somewhere that his homerun count wouldn't be any better at Fenway? Most of his homeruns are of the low liner variety which would only be a long single or double with the monster.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Yeah.  Adrian Gonzalez anyone?  When considering the monstah's effect on a guy's numbers, I think it is not sound to consider HR totals stand-alone; perhaps slugging % might be a better indicator, as HRs are often turned into doubles, but routine flies are also turned into doubles.  Myself, I don't like to factor the monstah into hitting projections.  Been wrong too many times.  The truth, same as it ever was:  the monstah giveth, and the monstah taketh away.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    I don't really understand the trade either.  If Cespy was 24 and cost-controlled he'd be a nice trade piece.  Instead he's pushing 30 and due to hit FA - and the Sox aren't going to overpay him based on potential because at some point his age and experience in the majors is going to dictate that "he is what he is" - a guy with some power and some holes in his swing.  

    He doesn't exactly profile what the Sox have usually looked for in a hitter, and he's probably looking to cash in at an age where the Sox aren't comfortable giving long-term contracts. 

    Best case scenario - he does well next year, loves Boston and is amenable to signing a 3-year deal with high AAV.  (I doubt it.)  Worst case, he does well and wants to test the market, which probably puts his asking price higher than what the Sox are willing to pay.    

     



     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think 20-25 HR is his ceiling.  And Cespedes and Gomes comparison is just too cruel.  So we traded Lester and Gomes for Gomes?

    By itself, the fact that Cespedes hits both lefties and righties well puts him miles ahead of Gomes, who is a part-time player at best. Really not a good comparison.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not true Flap. Neither Cespedes nor Gomes hits righties well, though Cespedes is at least mediocre vs RHP. And Gomes is a better career hitter vs LHP. Here are their BA/OBP/OPS: 

    Gomes vs RHP: .222/.307/.723; Cespedes: .256/.305/.762

    Gomes vs LHP:  .279/.379/.874; Cespedes: .275/.348/.844

    I think these guys, offensively, are a wash pretty much. Maybe Cespedes is a little better offensively, but not by much. His OBP continues to be horrible, and thats a major concern.

     

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    I hope he does well enough the rest of the way to become good trade bait.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Pumpsie,

    A little more digging reveals that Cespedes was strangely terrible against RHP last season, which seems to account for the slant in his career numbers...whereas in 2012 and 2014 his splits are a lot more equal (.768 vs. RHP / .773 vs. LHP this year, for example).

    Gomes, on the other hand, obviously kills lefthanders and may once have been adequate against righthanders, but that's a difficult argument to make nowadays (.531 OPS vs. RHP in 2014).

    I agree about the OBP concern. I have hopes that he hasn't maxed out his potential yet, but I think I'd like to see more before locking him up long-term.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't really understand the trade either.  If Cespy was 24 and cost-controlled he'd be a nice trade piece.  Instead he's pushing 30 and due to hit FA - and the Sox aren't going to overpay him based on potential because at some point his age and experience in the majors is going to dictate that "he is what he is" - a guy with some power and some holes in his swing.  

    He doesn't exactly profile what the Sox have usually looked for in a hitter, and he's probably looking to cash in at an age where the Sox aren't comfortable giving long-term contracts. 

    Best case scenario - he does well next year, loves Boston and is amenable to signing a 3-year deal with high AAV.  (I doubt it.)  Worst case, he does well and wants to test the market, which probably puts his asking price higher than what the Sox are willing to pay.    

    [/QUOTE]

    His low OBP makes me think he won't be here in 2016, so all we got for Lester was 1 year of Cespedes and the comp pick from the A's that cancelled out the comp pick we'd have gotten had we not traded him.

    Basically, we traded 2 months of Lester in a lost season for 1.3 seasons of Cespedes (including 2 months in a lost season).

    We could have done better.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to moonslav59's comment:





     






    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:



     






    I don't really understand the trade either.  If Cespy was 24 and cost-controlled he'd be a nice trade piece.  Instead he's pushing 30 and due to hit FA - and the Sox aren't going to overpay him based on potential because at some point his age and experience in the majors is going to dictate that "he is what he is" - a guy with some power and some holes in his swing.  






    He doesn't exactly profile what the Sox have usually looked for in a hitter, and he's probably looking to cash in at an age where the Sox aren't comfortable giving long-term contracts. 






    Best case scenario - he does well next year, loves Boston and is amenable to signing a 3-year deal with high AAV.  (I doubt it.)  Worst case, he does well and wants to test the market, which probably puts his asking price higher than what the Sox are willing to pay.    






     







    His low OBP makes me think he won't be here in 2016, so all we got for Lester was 1 year of Cespedes and the comp pick from the A's that cancelled out the comp pick we'd have gotten had we not traded him.




     




     




    Basically, we traded 2 months of Lester in a lost season for 1.3 seasons of Cespedes (including 2 months in a lost season).




     




    We could have done better.




     




     




    Moon its a Comp B pick, Lester would have been after the first round. In essesence we lost about 30 spots in the Draft, probably more.
    Comp B picks are after the second round. You can trade this pick, if you want to sweeten the pot on other Transactions.


     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    So you got Cespy you lost Lester--you got the comp pick.

    Honestly what good would it have done this team, that was free-falling with NO CHANCE of  making the playoffs, and truthfully about as much chance as we have today of re-signing Lester in the off season. We get another 14 months of a signed player at a bargain price.

    If BenC and his team do their due diligence early in the off season and into the managers and ownership meetings perhaps something of consequence could be worked out for a possible extension or one of BILL'S BLOCKBUSTERS. Maybe Justin Upton for Cespy and enlarge it a bit. It will be a fun off-season

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So you got Cespy you lost Lester--you got the comp pick.

    Honestly what good would it have done this team, that was free-falling with NO CHANCE of  making the playoffs, and truthfully about as much chance as we have today of re-signing Lester in the off season. We get another 14 months of a signed player at a bargain price.

    If BenC and his team do their due diligence early in the off season and into the managers and ownership meetings perhaps something of consequence could be worked out for a possible extension or one of BILL'S BLOCKBUSTERS. Maybe Justin Upton for Cespy and enlarge it a bit. It will be a fun off-season

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Noooooooo.  No Uptons please.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't really understand the trade either.  If Cespy was 24 and cost-controlled he'd be a nice trade piece.  Instead he's pushing 30 and due to hit FA - and the Sox aren't going to overpay him based on potential because at some point his age and experience in the majors is going to dictate that "he is what he is" - a guy with some power and some holes in his swing.  

    He doesn't exactly profile what the Sox have usually looked for in a hitter, and he's probably looking to cash in at an age where the Sox aren't comfortable giving long-term contracts. 

    Best case scenario - he does well next year, loves Boston and is amenable to signing a 3-year deal with high AAV.  (I doubt it.)  Worst case, he does well and wants to test the market, which probably puts his asking price higher than what the Sox are willing to pay.    

    [/QUOTE]

    His low OBP makes me think he won't be here in 2016, so all we got for Lester was 1 year of Cespedes and the comp pick from the A's that cancelled out the comp pick we'd have gotten had we not traded him.

    Basically, we traded 2 months of Lester in a lost season for 1.3 seasons of Cespedes (including 2 months in a lost season).

    We could have done better.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would have liked to see a better return (read: high level prospects), but none of us really know what was offered for Lester. So we do not know that we could have done better.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    22 homers 80 ribbies? Trot Nixon type in reality... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Trot Nixon type ...lol lol ha ha ha .....Yes and Trot won 2 home run derby's in allstar game. Plus / Was that the Trot on roids or the the skinny Trot?....You a unhappy type in reality

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to DaysofYaz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I thought i read somewhere that his homerun count wouldn't be any better at Fenway? Most of his homeruns are of the low liner variety which would only be a long single or double with the monster.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes you are on to something here. Cespedes home runs are 35.8 ft high and monster is 37 ft high . yes ,yes I see your point... lol lol ha ha ..... Maybe upper cut his swing a couple inches...lol lol ha ha

     

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