Extension for Cespedes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    I don't really understand the trade either.  If Cespy was 24 and cost-controlled he'd be a nice trade piece.  Instead he's pushing 30 and due to hit FA - and the Sox aren't going to overpay him based on potential because at some point his age and experience in the majors is going to dictate that "he is what he is" - a guy with some power and some holes in his swing.  

    He doesn't exactly profile what the Sox have usually looked for in a hitter, and he's probably looking to cash in at an age where the Sox aren't comfortable giving long-term contracts. 

    Best case scenario - he does well next year, loves Boston and is amenable to signing a 3-year deal with high AAV.  (I doubt it.)  Worst case, he does well and wants to test the market, which probably puts his asking price higher than what the Sox are willing to pay.    



    His low OBP makes me think he won't be here in 2016, so all we got for Lester was 1 year of Cespedes and the comp pick from the A's that cancelled out the comp pick we'd have gotten had we not traded him.

    Basically, we traded 2 months of Lester in a lost season for 1.3 seasons of Cespedes (including 2 months in a lost season).

    We could have done better.



    I would have liked to see a better return (read: high level prospects), but none of us really know what was offered for Lester. So we do not know that we could have done better.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     




    Yeah, I'm not really sure how you force other teams to "do better" when you're up against a deadline.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    I don't think 20-25 HR is his ceiling.  And Cespedes and Gomes comparison is just too cruel.  So we traded Lester and Gomes for Gomes?

    By itself, the fact that Cespedes hits both lefties and righties well puts him miles ahead of Gomes, who is a part-time player at best. Really not a good comparison.



    Not true Flap. Neither Cespedes nor Gomes hits righties well, though Cespedes is at least mediocre vs RHP. And Gomes is a better career hitter vs LHP. Here are their BA/OBP/OPS: 

    Gomes vs RHP: .222/.307/.723; Cespedes: .256/.305/.762

    Gomes vs LHP:  .279/.379/.874; Cespedes: .275/.348/.844

    I think these guys, offensively, are a wash pretty much. Maybe Cespedes is a little better offensively, but not by much. His OBP continues to be horrible, and thats a major concern.

     

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     



    Well since there are more righty pitchers than I would take the similar player(especially if they are righties) who fares better against righties when they are pretty similar against lefties.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:

    22 homers 80 ribbies? Trot Nixon type in reality... 



    Trot Nixon type ...lol lol ha ha ha .....Yes and Trot won 2 home run derby's in allstar game. Plus / Was that the Trot on roids or the the skinny Trot?....You a unhappy type in reality



    Actually Nixon in his prime was very comparable to Cespedes from a production level.  Nixon in his prime put up 27,24,28 home runs, which is more than Cespedes has done; 23, 26, 17 (so far this year).  RBIS Cespedes has put up 82,80,67 while Nixon gave us 88,94,87.  Batting average for Cespedes has been .292 .240 .258 while Nixon put up .280 .256 .306 in his prime. 

    That was Nixons 27-29 age seasons, after that his career went down south, he was still productive on the field but battled injuries.  These numbers are compared to Cespedes age 26-28 age seasons.  

    Nixon was actually bit more productive than Cespedes but the numbers are very identical, Nixon was much better at getting on base, and Cespedes is much better at running the bases.  Both are corner outfielders who have a GUN for an arm.

    Unfortunately, Nixon never won a home run derby...perhaps if he did the Sox might have won another world series with him, because home run derby's win games. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Yeah, I'm not really sure how you force other teams to "do better" when you're up against a deadline.

    I am certain we had multiple offers for Lester, and some were for players under team control for longer than 2015.

    Unless we plan on trading or extending Cespedes, I am certain we could have done better.

    Sox4ever

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Yeah, I'm not really sure how you force other teams to "do better" when you're up against a deadline.

    I am certain we had multiple offers for Lester, and some were for players under team control for longer than 2015.

    Unless we plan on trading or extending Cespedes, I am certain we could have done better.

    Sox4ever




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Sure, but, while I have no idea what the braintrust's plan actually is, I would be willing to bet a lot of money that the plan is indeed "Cespedes: extend him or trade him" ...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Sure, but, while I have no idea what the braintrust's plan actually is, I would be willing to bet a lot of money that the plan is indeed "Cespedes: extend him or trade him" ...




    I can buy that, but if they decide they have no option but to trade him after exploratory extension talks (assuming that's what they'll do) I hope he cooperates by having a good year.  But the dilemma is that they'll be right back at it trying to trade a guy at the deadline who'll be just a rental to the team acquiring him.  What if they're in the thick of it next year and he's a valuable bat in their lineup, what do they do then?  If he walks, is there compensation involved if he signs elsewhere? 


     


     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Yeah, I'm not really sure how you force other teams to "do better" when you're up against a deadline.

    I am certain we had multiple offers for Lester, and some were for players under team control for longer than 2015.

    Unless we plan on trading or extending Cespedes, I am certain we could have done better.

    Sox4ever




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Sure, but, while I have no idea what the braintrust's plan actually is, I would be willing to bet a lot of money that the plan is indeed "Cespedes: extend him or trade him" ...



    That's why I mentioned, "unless we trade him or extend him" I don't get the Lester trade.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sure, but, while I have no idea what the braintrust's plan actually is, I would be willing to bet a lot of money that the plan is indeed "Cespedes: extend him or trade him" ...

     



    I can buy that, but if they decide they have no option but to trade him after exploratory extension talks (assuming that's what they'll do) I hope he cooperates by having a good year.  But the dilemma is that they'll be right back at it trying to trade a guy at the deadline who'll be just a rental to the team acquiring him.  What if they're in the thick of it next year and he's a valuable bat in their lineup, what do they do then?  If he walks, is there compensation involved if he signs elsewhere? 

    Exactly. At least with Lester we could get a comp pick.

    I can see us looking to extend him this winter. If we wait until mid season to negotiate, we'll be in a box. If he is doing well, we'll have to give him 5+ years after the age of 30 or lose him for nothing (or make a back-against-the-wall trade). If he's doing poorly, we won't want to extend him, and nobody will offer much for him.

    I'd rather have built up the stockpile of prospects we could have offered in winter trades for players under team control for more than 1 year or who are willing to extend as part of the trade.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Say if Sox are close to making the playoff next season.  I'm not sure Sox will trade Cespedes before the deadline and only left with extension or nothing.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to seannybboi's comment:


    We now all know Cespedes will be a FA following 2015 season.  His contract prohibits him from any arbitration and qualifying offers.  It's either going to be Sox trading Cespedes at some point or extend him before he walks.  Sox need his bat and I, like many of you, think Sox will at least try to extend him before end of 15 season, or even during this off-season if both sides have mutual interest.  Cespedes will be 30 when he hits open market.  Even if we land Stanton, many think Cespedes should be extended and paired up with Stanton in our lineup for many more years.  Cespedes-healthy Ortiz-Stanton just sound damn good.  Now back to Cespedes, what do you think he will cost to extend before he reaches FA? He's due to earn $10.5M next season.  



    Lets give the guy a longer look before extending him.  I think Ces could eventually hit 30 or more HR's playing a full season with us or get packaged to the Marlins if we go all out for Stanton.  The Marlins may want some short term power back without an expensive long term commitment.  We should also have Craig, Shane and either Betts or JBJ probably not both.  Guys like Heyward, Upton and Rios are all FA's after 2015 as well.  Its always possible we extend Ces for the OF, or eventually to replace Papi but it's not a must just yet. 


    Craig will probably take over IB for Nap if he stays healthy and gets his stroke back because he is much cheaper and plays even better 1B defense.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    If you are building you need to find a bat outside the system to have on either side of Cespy to increase his value.

    Whether you go after Sandoval in FA or try to pry Asavail Garcia or JD Ramirez from their current teams or target someone that you see as a can't miss slugger--there may not be much else out there. Of course after last night Wong might be considered a slugger in the Sox eyes.

    A guy that comes to my mind is Alex Rios--has lost some of his punch but he is a ML hitter and has potentially one more year. I would enjoy watching him play as opposed to Nava. Playing at Fenway with Ortiz and Cespy might excite him a bit.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Moon its a Comp B pick, Lester would have been after the first round. In essesence we lost about 30 spots in the Draft, probably more.

    Comp B picks are after the second round. You can trade this pick, if you want to sweeten the pot on other Transactions.

    Thanks for the correction, but I'm not sure there's a big difference between pick #35 and 70. Significant yes, but certainly not worth the value of Lester.

    Sox4ever

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Sandoval is too expensive for San Fran he is not a good signing here... his numbers are Cespedes like.... 

    True, but HanRam will be off the charts unattainable, and I'm not sure how many other options are out there.

    Personally, I'd like to see Bogey/Holt at 3B and someone else at SS.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    The Sox gamble on Cespedes has to do with the ballpark factor, yes, but also the notion that he is still shy of 3 years removed from Cuban ball.  Still raw in many ways.  Another year, studying at the bejewelled feet of Big Papi, Yoenis still has 'upside'.  It will be interesting to see how they approach an extension.  If they could lock him up now for reasonable years and dollars, as opposed to waiting til next summer when the price could get significantly higher, it might be worth the gamble.

     

         




    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    All points, yes.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

     

    Keep Honking ...

       I'm reloading ...   (borrowed from a local bumper sticker)

    Go SOX!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    If Sandoval is too expensive for San Fran he is not a good signing here... his numbers are Cespedes like.... 


    True, but HanRam will be off the charts unattainable, and I'm not sure how many other options are out there.


    Personally, I'd like to see Bogey/Holt at 3B and someone else at SS.



    Hanley and Jon will be offered insane contracts and the Yankees will probably be first to open the wallet.  Bogy and Holt at 3B?  I'm still on the fence leaning towards "no defensively" and still want to see if Holts offensive numbers tail off before seasons end.  Middy I absolutely don't want back so 3B is going to be a real interesting watch.  I would still trade to get Beltre back because you know what he has to offer and Marrero is probably the better SS choice if he can continues to hit well.  Bring back Jon or sign shields, then trade for Stanton and/or Beltre we certainly have the pieces to make it happen.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Say if Sox are close to making the playoff next season.  I'm not sure Sox will trade Cespedes before the deadline and only left with extension or nothing.  




    That's the part I don't like. If that happens, in hindsight, the Lester trade would look pretty bad.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Yeah, I'm not really sure how you force other teams to "do better" when you're up against a deadline.

    I am certain we had multiple offers for Lester, and some were for players under team control for longer than 2015.

    Unless we plan on trading or extending Cespedes, I am certain we could have done better.

    Sox4ever



    With all due respect, as long as we do not know the specifics of what was offered for Lester, we do not know we could have done better. Lester is only a three month rental. Its perfectly possible that our next best offer was prospects with little chance of making an impact on the team in the future. 

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Yeah, I'm not really sure how you force other teams to "do better" when you're up against a deadline.

    I am certain we had multiple offers for Lester, and some were for players under team control for longer than 2015.

    Unless we plan on trading or extending Cespedes, I am certain we could have done better.

    Sox4ever



    With all due respect, as long as we do not know the specifics of what was offered for Lester, we do not know we could have done better. Lester is only a three month rental. Its perfectly possible that our next best offer was prospects with little chance of making an impact on the team in the future. 

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     You are right, but I am as certain as I have ever been that we had at least one offer of a good player or prospect under team control for more than one year. 

     Nothing is for certain on the end result of that hypothetical longer term player(s), but there had to be offers out there.

     If Cespedes' contract allowed us to get another comp pick if he bolted, I'd feel better about the deal, but right now, I don't see 1.3 years of Cespedes plus a comp B pick for Lester as the best we could have done. In theory, we may have gotten an A+ prospect who never amounts to jack, and the B comp pick could turn out to be a gem, so you are correct, but I don't like the odds on Cespedes extending here or being traded by next deadline to end up giving us more than that comp B pick going beyond 2015.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:

    22 homers 80 ribbies? Trot Nixon type in reality... 



    Trot Nixon type ...lol lol ha ha ha .....Yes and Trot won 2 home run derby's in allstar game. Plus / Was that the Trot on roids or the the skinny Trot?....You a unhappy type in reality



    Actually Nixon in his prime was very comparable to Cespedes from a production level.  Nixon in his prime put up 27,24,28 home runs, which is more than Cespedes has done; 23, 26, 17 (so far this year).  RBIS Cespedes has put up 82,80,67 while Nixon gave us 88,94,87.  Batting average for Cespedes has been .292 .240 .258 while Nixon put up .280 .256 .306 in his prime. 

    That was Nixons 27-29 age seasons, after that his career went down south, he was still productive on the field but battled injuries.  These numbers are compared to Cespedes age 26-28 age seasons.  

    Nixon was actually bit more productive than Cespedes but the numbers are very identical, Nixon was much better at getting on base, and Cespedes is much better at running the bases.  Both are corner outfielders who have a GUN for an arm.

    Unfortunately, Nixon never won a home run derby...perhaps if he did the Sox might have won another world series with him, because home run derby's win games. 



    Ok your so smart.... You win.  Take a poll across the league ? Would you want Trout Nixon  or Cespedes on your team? Trout was a good player but!!!  Wait till Cespedes retires to see how much better Trot was ? lol lol  We will continue this debate in about 10 years.... Hang in there !!!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    Craig will probably take over IB for Nap if he stays healthy and gets his stroke back because he is much cheaper and plays even better 1B defense.

    FG, the Fielding Bible, and the GG folks beg to differ.  Naps is a much better hitter and fielder right now.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    I would have liked to see a better return (read: high level prospects), but none of us really know what was offered for Lester. So we do not know that we could have done better.

    Yup, I agree.  I really, really wanted Urias, but have not the foggiest idea of what the offers looked like.

    And not really a big fan of Cespedes.  the HFA to see what they look ike to strip out the HFA to see what they look like against the leage as a whole.  He has a career .744 OPS on the road.  And it hasn't been mentioned, but he's only averaged 124 games a year. topping out at only 135.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:

    If Sandoval is too expensive for San Fran he is not a good signing here... his numbers are Cespedes like.... 




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    I think it is a reasonable comp, but I also think Sandoval will be cheaper.  I see him as a Beltre-type player where some GMs will be scared off by some legit issues, and also scared off by issues they should not have feared.  Just imho, but I think Cespedes is the type of player a bad GM overpays for, and that Sandoval is the type of player that a good GM underpays for.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Extension for Cespedes

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:

    22 homers 80 ribbies? Trot Nixon type in reality... 



    Trot Nixon type ...lol lol ha ha ha .....Yes and Trot won 2 home run derby's in allstar game. Plus / Was that the Trot on roids or the the skinny Trot?....You a unhappy type in reality



    Actually Nixon in his prime was very comparable to Cespedes from a production level.  Nixon in his prime put up 27,24,28 home runs, which is more than Cespedes has done; 23, 26, 17 (so far this year).  RBIS Cespedes has put up 82,80,67 while Nixon gave us 88,94,87.  Batting average for Cespedes has been .292 .240 .258 while Nixon put up .280 .256 .306 in his prime. 

    That was Nixons 27-29 age seasons, after that his career went down south, he was still productive on the field but battled injuries.  These numbers are compared to Cespedes age 26-28 age seasons.  

    Nixon was actually bit more productive than Cespedes but the numbers are very identical, Nixon was much better at getting on base, and Cespedes is much better at running the bases.  Both are corner outfielders who have a GUN for an arm.

    Unfortunately, Nixon never won a home run derby...perhaps if he did the Sox might have won another world series with him, because home run derby's win games. 



    Ok your so smart.... You win.  Take a poll across the league ? Would you want Trout Nixon  or Cespedes on your team? Trout was a good player but!!!  Wait till Cespedes retires to see how much better Trot was ? lol lol  We will continue this debate in about 10 years.... Hang in there !!!



    Dude...What debate???? all he said was Cespedes reminded him of Trot Nixon, not that he would have the same exact career,  If Cespedes stays healthy I'm sure he will have much better stats than Nixon.  But during his prime, when he was here in Boston, around the same age as Cespedes he was a very similar player and maybe even better.

    You want to tell me that when Cespedes career is over he will have been the better player????

    OK CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You just won an argument with yourself.

     
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