Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay Gone

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : I wonder why he is a Type B FA? I could go either way on this.  Part of me says to keep him 3 months while Lavarnway gets more experience in AAA.  Keeps his clock from starting.  And Tek has been a great 1st half hitter over the past 3 years. Part says offer him arb and let him walk.  Take the draft pick.  Bring up Lavarnway and work him in slow, and do some RH DH work.  Tek didn't throw out anyone late in the year.  I think there were 5 games in late Aug and Sept where the other team went 4-0 in SBs, or better.   OTOH, he was 42-22 last year, and Salty was 47-49.  I wouldn't overrate that, but I wouldn't ignore it.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    JB, I feel as ambivalent about it as you do and I think you've just made my case for me.  While Moon and Harness have made some strong cases for Tek as a backup based upon 2011 numbers, I'm concerned about Tek's performance and skills dropping precipitously in 2012.  While it may not be much of a risk in terms of salary in keeping him as a backup, there is an opportunity cost in holding a roster spot for him and not taking a flier on another catcher who can start off as a backup or platoon and may have potential to earn his way into a starting role.  I'm still not sold on Salty, and having just Tek around, given his limitations at this stage of his career, is a poor insurance policy. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    Right or wrong, and fans are frequently wrong about player values, ownership and management always capitulates when it comes to a player that the overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans want gone.

    Right or wrong, and softy is frequently wrong about player values (see the Mauer & AGon cases), ownership never capitulates when it comes to a player that the overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans want to stay.

    Damon, Pedro, VMart, Beltre...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    I wonder why he is a Type B FA?

    Based on comparative analysis with other catchers, that's why.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    JB, I feel as ambivalent about it as you do and I think you've just made my case for me.  While Moon and Harness have made some strong cases for Tek as a backup based upon 2011 numbers, I'm concerned about Tek's performance and skills dropping precipitously in 2012.  While it may not be much of a risk in terms of salary in keeping him as a backup, there is an opportunity cost in holding a roster spot for him and not taking a flier on another catcher who can start off as a backup or platoon and may have potential to earn his way into a starting role.  I'm still not sold on Salty, and having just Tek around, given his limitations at this stage of his career, is a poor insurance policy. 

    I'm not sold on Salty either... or Lava as a FT catcher. I do think VTek compliments the 2 nicely for another year. He did catch 40% of the innings this year, and for those who just look at 2nd half numbers, VTek did have decent numbers from August 1st to Sept 10th before going just 1 for 16 to end the season. I think if he catches 30-35% in 2012, we can expect the same numbers and same winning % in games he catches.

    To me, he's worth $1 to 1.5M just to catch 20% of the games (all with Beckett).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]Right or wrong, and fans are frequently wrong about player values, ownership and management always capitulates when it comes to a player that the overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans want gone. Right or wrong, and softy is frequently wrong about player values (see the Mauer & AGon cases), ownership never capitulates when it comes to a player that the overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans want to stay. Damon, Pedro, VMart, Beltre...
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]Well, except for Mike Lowell...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : Fred - have you read Moon's analysis of the Sox' catchers' performance in 2011?  Are you aware of Varitek's 2011 overall batting versus the average of all catchers and versus the average of all backup catchers?  Are you aware of Varitek's salary vs. the average for all players and all veteran players? Re Lavarnway, you wrote "is ready to become a solid ballplayer".  What evidence leads you to that conclusion?  Please be specific, rather than references to his grandmother ad nauseum.  You can do better than that.
    Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars[/QUOTE]

    moon can post stats until he's blue in the face, but the bottom line is he didn't do his job carrying the 'C' on his chest, did he? So do you bring him back and strip him off that? The only real way to strip the 'C' off his chest is to not bring him back, and that is what Cherrington will do. Wait and see. 

    And watch all of the Major League contracts he gets:  ZERO

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : I wonder why he is a Type B FA? I could go either way on this.  Part of me says to keep him 3 months while Lavarnway gets more experience in AAA.  Keeps his clock from starting.  And Tek has been a great 1st half hitter over the past 3 years. Part says offer him arb and let him walk.  Take the draft pick.  Bring up Lavarnway and work him in slow, and do some RH DH work.  Tek didn't throw out anyone late in the year.  I think there were 5 games in late Aug and Sept where the other team went 4-0 in SBs, or better.   OTOH, he was 42-22 last year, and Salty was 47-49.  I wouldn't overrate that, but I wouldn't ignore it.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    But if you offer him arbitration, he's going to take it because he knows he won't get another offer on the market. He's a 40 year old catcher.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    moon can post stats until he's blue in the face, but the bottom line is he didn't do his job carrying the 'C' on his chest, did he? So do you bring him back and strip him off that? The only real way to strip the 'C' off his chest is to not bring him back, and that is what Cherrington will do. Wait and see. 

    1) So, you're giving up on trying to use numbers to bash VTek? Now you are leaning on the "C"?

    2) Have I ever said VTek will be back? I'd say the odds are small. I never said he would be back, probably would be back, or even might be back. I'm only giving my opinion on a catcher option at low cost for a 25-35% back-up catcher.

    And watch all of the Major League contracts he gets:  ZERO

    If VTek wants to play elsewhere and clubs would not have to give up a comp pick (worth maybe $5M), he'd have plenty of offers.

    He may still get a few.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : moon can post stats until he's blue in the face, but the bottom line is he didn't do his job carrying the 'C' on his chest, did he? So do you bring him back and strip him off that? The only real way to strip the 'C' off his chest is to not bring him back, and that is what Cherrington will do. Wait and see.  And watch all of the Major League contracts he gets:  ZERO
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    Here's a thought: Let's bring Tek back but you can carry the "C".
    The only catch is, the "C" will stand for...something else.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : Here's a thought: Let's bring Tek back but you can carry the "C". The only catch is, the "C" will stand for...something else.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]c@nt?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    2 Million is not cheap for a good backup catcher, much less a lousy one. Varitek is physically incapable of finishing a season as a backup catcher. When it gets around the final month or two of the season, Varitek can't even stand up straight.

    Hernandez should be priority #1, at an annual cost of about 3 to 5M. An early offer of one year 4M and team buyout of year 2 at 4M for 1.5M will close the deal. The Red Sox need a season long solid veteran catcher. Salty and Lavarway should compete for last catcher roster spot with the spring loser parked in AAA for depth.

    No one in their right minds would offer Varitek 1.5 to 2M major league contract to sit on the bench 2/3 of the year and drink beer and play video games and chase women the last month or two he makes his annual on the shelf out of commission physically unable to perform list.

    Moonslow doesn't have a clue about player value, and thinks that means market value. The same dimwit who wanted Adam Dunn on Red Sox payroll at a massive cost.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    If you subtract the multiple screennames that Harnazz, Moonslow and Varitek use, I would say that Varitek only has 2 or 3 votes and very close to 100% of Red Sox fans want Varitek to stay gone.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : c@nt?
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    http://youtu.be/4E_7q4hzWFc
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay Gone:
    [QUOTE]If you subtract the multiple screennames that Harnazz, Moonslow and Varitek use, I would say that Varitek only has 2 or 3 votes and very close to 100% of Red Sox fans want Varitek to stay gone.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    I don't vote, oh paranoid one.
    You are the man of 1000 faces...


 
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    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? : c@nt?
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    Just the opposite.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    You vote and drivel, oh cut and paste dimwit.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    I don't vote. Just the thought of voting on UR thread is enough to catch to get a PC virus. You are the egomaniac who stuffs the ballot boxes.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    yes every rules - not every rule
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Varitek's time as an active player has come and gone.     It's time to usher in Lavarnway and get younger.
    Maybe some day Varitek can return in a coaching capacity but right now he's too closely aligned with the fiasco of 2011.   
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    True.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]2 Million is not cheap for a good backup catcher, much less a lousy one. Varitek is physically incapable of finishing a season as a backup catcher. When it gets around the final month or two of the season, Varitek can't even stand up straight. Hernandez should be priority #1, at an annual cost of about 3 to 5M. An early offer of one year 4M and team buyout of year 2 at 4M for 1.5M will close the deal. The Red Sox need a season long solid veteran catcher. Salty and Lavarway should compete for last catcher roster spot with the spring loser parked in AAA for depth. No one in their right minds would offer Varitek 1.5 to 2M major league contract to sit on the bench 2/3 of the year and drink beer and play video games and chase women the last month or two he makes his annual on the shelf out of commission physically unable to perform list. Moonslow doesn't have a clue about player value, and thinks that means market value. The same dimwit who wanted Adam Dunn on Red Sox payroll at a massive cost.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Ding ding ding!
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Varitek will likely cost $1-1.5M not $2M.
    He caught more innings as a backup than all but 2 team's back-up catchers.
    He hit better than about half the MLB starting catchers.
    The team went 42-22 when he caught. 

    Ding! Ding! Ding! DING!

    Funny how softy now uses this boards opinion as a measurement of worth after ripping it to shreds for years, often saying he was "the only one" to get it right. Using his twisted logic, he should use the results to show that VTek should come back, since the majority of the board is "always wrong".
     
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    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    I'm definitely not Softlaw.

    Loosen the pink headband Moonie, and safe travels to Chicago.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    "Right or wrong, and fans are frequently wrong about player values, ownership and management always capitulates when it comes to a player that the overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans want gone".

    What an absurd premise!
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek?:
    [QUOTE]2 Million is not cheap for a good backup catcher, much less a lousy one. Varitek is physically incapable of finishing a season as a backup catcher. When it gets around the final month or two of the season, Varitek can't even stand up straight. Hernandez should be priority #1, at an annual cost of about 3 to 5M. An early offer of one year 4M and team buyout of year 2 at 4M for 1.5M will close the deal. The Red Sox need a season long solid veteran catcher. Salty and Lavarway should compete for last catcher roster spot with the spring loser parked in AAA for depth. No one in their right minds would offer Varitek 1.5 to 2M major league contract to sit on the bench 2/3 of the year and drink beer and play video games and chase women the last month or two he makes his annual on the shelf out of commission physically unable to perform list. Moonslow doesn't have a clue about player value, and thinks that means market value. The same dimwit who wanted Adam Dunn on Red Sox payroll at a massive cost.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    What's your view on Ellsbury, Hank?
     
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