Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay Gone

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay Gone:
    [QUOTE]A different era, different individual, different thinking, why do so many Sox fans love to live in the past? Sox fan here too, I want this team to get better. Good GM'S wont have this kind of thinking, they move on. Nice career Jason, you will never see the HOF, but nice job while with the Sox.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]


    I don't get it either. IMO there's nothing worse than useless greedy veterans continuing to lobby for sympathy roster slots, especially at the expense of the development of younger players who can contribute longterm. And that's what it's come down to with both Varitek and Wakefield. Their greed and selfishness is blatant and reprehensible. I've lost every ounce of respect I ever had for both, and so have many others I've spoken to.

    It will go a long way towards letting us know he means business and is looking to put the past behind us if Cherington takes a pass on both.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    1) If the Dodgers are 2 years away from contending, they would trade Kemp for prospects and not a guy that will leave them in 2 years.
    Silly.

    Because you are an idiot who can't read. I said the Dodgers would get one or two prospects if that is what they required. I exempted specific prospects but left duplicative prospects and Lowrie that the Dodgers could pick from.

    I read your moronic drivel just fine. You said the Dodgers would not contend for 2 years, then advocated them trading for a guy that will be a Bora$$ FA in 2 years...brilliant! Yes, you mentione a couple of prospects, which adds to your silly position, since giving the Dodgers 2 years of Jacoby for 1 year of Kemp should mean, if anything, we should get a prospect or two not LA.

    I agree, the Dodgers will not compete for 2 years, so if they were to trade Kemp, it would be for 3-5 top prospects. Ellsbury would take away from what they really want: young players under team control for more than 2-3 years. I've made this point to you at least 5 times, and you still don't even understand my position. Here, I'll simplify it for you: the Dodgers want to win sometime after 2013. Should they trade Kemp for 3-5 top prospects or players under team control for 3 or more years or one player who will go after 2013 and a couple of mid-level prospects at best?

    So, for our resident board idiot, let me spell it out again:

    1. Dodgers get Ellsbury for 2 years at about 5 to 7M a year and 12 to 14M total + their choice of one, or two if they require it, from Lowrie or anyone on the Red Sox farm except Middlebrooks, Kalish, Ranaudo, Reddick, Iglesias, Lavarnway, Barnes, Jacobs and Bradley.

    See above for the correct way of "spelling it out". You are insane to think the Sox would trade 2 years of Ellsbury and one or two of our top prospects for 1 year of Kemp. Even if a Kemp extension was worked before the deal was finalized, the money involved would not make the deal worthwhile. We could just trade Jacoby next year and sign Kemp as a FA. It's really that simple, clown.

     
    For the idiot poster, that means the Dodgers cut payroll for 2012 by about 3 to 5M and (in the unlikely event they emerge from bankcruptcy and extend Kemp) 2013 by about 15M

    Umm, getting 3-5 top prospects for LA would cut salary way more and give them a chance to win in 2014. Save money and set themselves up to be better in 2014; those are the parameters you set for LA. Your propsal barely saves them much money and leaves them with 1-2 prospects after 2013 instead of 3-5. (Plus, your whole proposal is a pipedream, at best they might get 2 low-midlevel prospects if any.) 

    Dodgers get:
     
    Ellsbury for 2 years (cut payroll for OF 2 years)      
    + 1 or 2 their choice from

    Lowrie, Bogaerts (elite top 5 team prospect), Brentz (top 10 team prospect), Weiland, Doubrant or anyone else on the Red Sox farm except Middlebrooks, Kalish, Ranaudo, Reddick, Iglesias, Lavarnway, Barnes, Jacobs and Bradley.

    Complete insanity.

    2) Trading 2 years of Jacoby for 1 year of Kemp makes no sense whatsoever.

    Sure it does, idiot. Offering Timmy T-Ball million FA contract makes no sense whatsoever. Red Sox are not going to extend Ellsbury and have Crawford. Extending Kemp makes total sense, perfect fit for Fenway and with AGon long term. 

    Yes, talking about Wake is your favorite ploy to distract from your moronic drivel. Yes, Kemp would be a nice fit in Boston, but for one year? It ain't happening. Your dream is just that: a dream.

    I know we are not going to keep Ellsbury after 2013, but trading him and 1-2 prospects for a guy who will be here for one year then walk is just plane insane.

    3) If we can not afford to pay $20M/yr for Jacoby, why will we suddenly have the money to sign Kemp? (A year earlier. A year we have to try and keep Papi and Paps and Scutty and fill 2 starting pitcher slots, 2 relievers, and RF.)

    Red Sox can afford to pay Jacoby 20M/yr for 2014. But it would be more stupid than offering Crawford 20M/yr. It is not going to happen. 

    Where did I ever say we will keep Jacoby at CC money? Talk about "following along". You never can even understand the argument you are in. That's how low you have fallen.

    Follow along, for you, dummy:

    Drew and Cameron off books at 21.5 million 
    Ellsbury off books at 2.4 million (going up to about 5 to 7M for 2012)
    Ortiz does not change budget because already on books for 12.5M  
    Papelbon already on 2011 books for 12M does not change 2012 from 2011

    Umm, follow along yourself. I did a complete breakdown of our budget from 2011 to 2012.

    2012 Kemp 10 to 12M per arbitration (see Agon for you dummy) 

    I have never doubted the salary numbers, so again, you are inventing a position of mine that does not exist, then, in a  sense,  arguing with yourself. Again.
         
    2012  Ortiz 12.5 M (include a mutual option at 8M buyout 2M ortiz is not getting 14.5M guaranteed by any team except maybe Yankees over 2 years and the Red Sox can simply match 2 years which will be lower base)  

    You called me a racist for suggesting an offer better than you now are saying the Sox should offer Papi. You are truely a clown.
       
    2012 Papelbon 13 to 15M (offer 2 years and 26 to 30M or No if market 3 years) 

    Net 2012 difference from 2011 for Kemp over Ellsbury and return of Ortiz and Papelbon is :

    2012 Kemp over Ellsbury cost increase about 3 to 5M
    2012 Ortiz over Ortiz 2011 1.5M max increase or less depending upon market
    2012 Papelbon over Papelbon 2011 1M to 3M increase

    For these players, net 2012 increase is 5.5M to max of 9.5M
    21.5M from Drew & Cameron leaves 12.5M to 16.5M apply to other 12 costs    
      
    2013 Kemp 19M to 21M
    2013 Ortiz 13.5M (includes amortized 2M buyout) off books
    2013 Ellsbury 5 to 7M costs not on 2013 books

    Do you follow, now, Moonslow........................

    Yes, I can follow your idiotic drivel just fine. That doesn't mean it is anything more than idiocy.

    1) You leave out the AGon and Buch step ups in salary that did not count against 2011.
    2) You neglect to account for the cost of actually filling our biggest need, which everyone realizes is not CF. It is pitching, pitching, and then, some more pitching.
    3) You assume Kemp will extend (see below).

    BTW: Scutaro 6M option should be declined. Scutaro will be lucky to find 1 to 2M 1 year contract for a 36 year old SS/2B with recent injury history and arm strength decline with spiked Fenway plate numbers, so he may have to use 3M player option. Red Sox should sign a veteran defensive SS for nor more than one year and 1M if Scutaro finds a sucker elsewhere. I expect Scutaro will be back because market will not be kind to him unless Theo needs a SS;)    

    You've changed your position once again...no wonder. Scutty can easily get a 1 year deal for $3-5M, and probably a 2 year deal for $6-8M.

    4) Why would Kemp want to play for the "racist city" softy calls or implies it nearly every week?

    It is called a trade, dummy. Kemp cannot block a trade, and will not turn down a 20M to 22M 140 to 154M 2013 to 2019 extension (age 34 for final year)

    Umm, duh! My point is on the extension part of your idiotic plan and you know it. Your whole plan is based on the fact that Kemps extends or re-signs to stay here, otherwise your whole house of cards collapses. You, yourself, have called Boston a racist city and have in the past mentioned that Black players should call Bonds before signing here. Now, you assume Kemp will extend to play in Boston. This is the "leep" that goes against your own beliefs (not mine).

    Tell me why we wouldn't just trade jacoby after 2012 and sign Kemp. We not only keep the 1-2 top prospects you want to give away for 1 year of Kemp, but we gain 3-5 for jacoby next winter and still end up with Kemp. Try to actually answer the question instead of deflecting to Wake or Yankee signing babble.

    Then, tell us why Kemp would sign for a team you call racist, and play in a city you call racist?

    Now, are you going to go another year of Crawbust and "Cudyer" or Mac and advocate for CJ Wilson and Wastefield FA contract offers. Or are you going to lock up the best young hitting combination in AGon and Kemp (Youk is aging out and did not get the job done in 2011 on a team that had an offense that was inconsistent and had many blowout offense wins but too many lows. Yankees will end up with Kemp if Kemp hits FA.

    I do not want Cuddyer. You keep confusing me with someone else. I'm sick of you inventing a position I never held, then arguing with a fantasy. I have said I do not want to ever see DMac in RF. You praised him all last year and called people racist for wanting him cut... now this.

    I mentioned CJ in passing as a possible pitching option. I have never said we should sign him. Again, you are inventing positions of mine that are not there.

    You are assuming Kemp will extend for us and not try for more money with NY next winter. You are assuming the yanks will ourbid us for Kemp.
    They very well might, but Kemp is not the only OF'er out there.

    Lackey should remind you (I said no more than 3 years and 30M offer)

    You lie. You never even mentioned money or lackey until after the signing. I have posted your exact statement about the signing over and over again. You said it was a "necessary signing" and that it was "too much money but worth it". You said it was a 'year too long", but when you later found out about the injury clause, you said it was "worth it". At least I can admit I was wrong. Try it sometime.

    ...that starting pitching is about a few superstars who rarely hit the trade or FA market and the need to have competent coaches and scouts to develop pitching depth on the farm. Wakefield is a manifest source of embarrassment in this department.

    He's one sorce of your own embarrassment.

    The Fa and trade market in 2012 is not a pitcher value market, as usual.

    There should be a number of pitchers available in trade. Jeremy Guthrie is on his last arb year and will be a FA next winter. The O's have no chance to compete in 2012. The Astros have a couple starters and no hopes for 2012 or 2013. The Rays have 7-8 starters and Shields may be dealt next winter, or Davis/Niemann this winter. SF and Atlanta have plenty of pitching and no offense. We have more offense than most teams. There's more than that out there. It will cost us, but we all know good pitching wins rings. We need two starters and two relievers. Your plan for signing scrap heap players and hoping we hit paydirt rings of your Ben Sheets plan.

    Best way for the Red Sox to proceed is to not be fooled by aggregate 2011 season offense numbers and look to improve an offense in a league that rewards an offense that is powerful in the middle and deep from top to near bottom. 

    You have always been one to value pitching and defense (especially at SS and C), and now you think the top offense in MLB needs to "look to improve offense' at the expense of looking to realistically improve our staff.

    Wilson is no superstar and even if Papelbon finds a 3 year market (Red Sox should say no to that), Wilson should not be valued at more than 3 years and 45M.

    Papelbon will get 3 years, so you are saying goodbye to him. You offer no real plan to replenish, let alone improve our staff. I wouldn't pay CJ $45M/3, but agree, he will get that or more. Sidenote: that means I do not want CJ at that cost...get it?

    Red Sox need to sign 2 or 3 FA veterans to one year incentive type deals, and I have provided specifics on names and contract offers for the 9 or 10 starting pitching profiles depth for 2012. Wakefield is not one, though a minor league only contract would be fine for Wakefield, where he can be shuttled back and forth from AAA to his old entitlement country club.

    Yes, let's sign Penny and Smoltz. It's funny that you now say bringing Wake back has some merit. If he's as bad, old, and fat as you say he is, why would you even want him as a AAA option?

    Don't answer: it will only detract from the real questions you never address.
    Try to stick to arguing my positions and not inventing ones I never held.

    I won't hold my breath.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    I don't get it either. IMO there's nothing worse than useless greedy veterans continuing to lobby for sympathy roster slots, especially at the expense of the development of younger players who can contribute longterm.

    Yes, I sure wish we had given Weiland 28 starts this year. Wake's selfishness held him back from a Cy Young season.

    And that's what it's come down to with both Varitek and Wakefield. Their greed and selfishness is blatant and reprehensible. I've lost every ounce of respect I ever had for both, and so have many others I've spoken to.

    You never had an ounce of respect within you to give up to begin with.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Lackey should remind you (I said no more than 3 years and 30M offer)

    You lie. You never even mentioned money or lackey until after the signing. I have posted your exact statement about the signing over and over again. You said it was a "necessary signing" and that it was "too much money but worth it

    No, you lie. I mentioned numerous times and called Lackey a prima donna who should not be offered a long term FA deal. Never once said it was worth it or necessary signing. I said, of the Big 3 FA that year, it was the only one that made any sense at all if they were going to sign a FA regardless of value.

    More lies. You never mentioned "$30M/3" until this year.

    You pretend that my Kemp trade is for one year of Kemp, when you know full well the extension is part of the deal. You were an after the fact minion on Agon, and you are always out to lunch.

    You have never answered why Kemp would agree to extend with a "racist team and city" (you claim not mine). You pretend I don't know the rules about Kemp not being able to stop a trade, but ignore my point about how he does have a choice in accepting an extension or not. You whole position is based on the fact that he will extend. You think he's dumb enought o extend for less than he'd get from the Yanks in 2013? All to play for what you call a racist team and fanbase? I've asked you about this 7 times now, and you never even come close to answering. Instead you divert and distract and bring up Wake.

    Most of your posts are long snipets about reasons to offer Varitek and Wakefield another year of FA contracts. The two cost nearly 6M in 2011.
     
    They will not cost $6M in 2011 and you know it. They both might get $1-1.5M per year each next year, maybe with incentives.

    Then, you claim that offering 3 or 4M and 1 year to a solid catcher like Hernandez for 100 to 110 games and 2 to 2.5M for one year veteran starting pitcher contracts is blowing precious money that needs to be saved by bringing two old washed up parasite losers back!

    Try reading what I actually said for once. I said Hernandez will likely get $5-6M or more not $3-4. I said our top priorities are not CF and catcher. I do not think the Sox will bring Vtek back, and they probably won't spend a penny on another catcher. They will almost certainly go with just Salty and Lava.  If they do get a veteran catcher, it will be a cheap 1 year deal. To me, it makes sense that VTek be considered as the one year option- perhaps a $1M deal with incentives, or a deal that includes future coaching opportunities.

    Take a look at the front survey and the comments of overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans who don't want Varitek and Wakefield offered FA MLB contracts. These were many fans who were foolishly on board with the last gift contracts to these old men. Only you want to continue it and claim it saves precious money. What a joke.


    You have called the posters on this site losers years after year, but now you use their opinions as evidence to support your position as being worthy? Your silly logic is baffling. You have wrongly claimed over and over that you were the "only one" to hold a certain position or "the leader in advocating" for this or that, and now, you want to use a poll of fans to prove something?

    If you ask fans, would you rather have Fielder or Lava at DH, they'll choose Fielder. If you ask them if they'd rather have CJ or Wake, they'll choose CJ. We could go on and on, but the fact is we can't do it all. We need to prioritize our need areas and address the key areas first. That means catcher  is not going to be an area management spends big on. You can dream all you want, but it's just not going to happen, unless we deal Salty or Lava. 

    It might
    not mean anything to you that Vtek caught more innings than all but two MLB back-up catcher, and all that you see is that he missed one game at the end of the season, but just because your propaganda might work on many posters on this site, it doesn't make it the truth.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Lackey should remind you (I said no more than 3 years and 30M offer)

    You lie. You never even mentioned money or lackey until after the signing. I have posted your exact statement about the signing over and over again. You said it was a "necessary signing" and that it was "too much money but worth it

    No, you lie. I mentioned numerous times and called Lackey a prima donna who should not be offered a long term FA deal. Never once said it was worth it or necessary signing. I said, of the Big 3 FA that year, it was the only one that made any sense at all if they were going to sign a FA regardless of value.

    You pretend that my Kemp trade is for one year of Kemp, when you know full well the extension is part of the deal. You were an after the fact minion on Agon, and you are always out to lunch.

    Most of your posts are long snipets about reasons to offer Varitek and Wakefield another year of FA contracts. The two cost nearly 6M in 2011. Then, you claim that offering 3 or 4M and 1 year to a solid catcher like Hernandez for 100 to 110 games and 2 to 2.5M for one year veteran starting pitcher contracts is blowing precious money that needs to be saved by bringing two old washed up parasite losers back!

    Take a look at the front survey and the comments of overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans who don't want Varitek and Wakefield offered FA MLB contracts. These were many fans who were foolishly on board with the last gift contracts to these old men. Only you want to continue it and claim it saves precious money. What a joke.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Take a look at the front survey and the comments of overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans... (softy)

    If the polls hold weight, then why didn't anyone feel like you do, that our top priority is catcher, and that we should get scraps for starters not a 2-3 slot pitcher?

    (See my thread on top priorities:  zero out of 68 voters chose catcher as our top need area, and a majority have chosen the need for a 2-3 slot starter as the number 1 area of need.)



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Your loaded hyperbole opinion is not a survey. But, overwhelming majority of your own loaded survey do not want VAritek back! Give it up, Moonslob, Varitek is washed up and you are one of the only dim bulbs who think 1 million and a frat house roster spot should be gifted to his 40 year old fossil.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Your loaded hyperbole opinion is not a survey. But, overwhelming majority of your own loaded survey do not want VAritek back! Give it up, Moonslob, Varitek is washed up and you are one of the only dim bulbs who think 1 million and a frat house roster spot should be gifted to his 40 year old fossil.

    Unlike your survey, my survey has no lies.

    I noticed only one voted for your plan... signing a 36 year old (Hernandez)for $5-6M. 14 voted for my idea (if Papi walks).
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    I noticed that overwhelming majority voted to get rid of Varitek, on your opinion advanced as a survey.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    My survey has no lies. Your survey is hyperbole opinion, yet most posters voting on your loaded "survey" still want 40 year old womanizer Varitek gone.

    Hernandez will not cost more than 3 to 4M, moonslob. That is just 1 to 2M less than washed up 40 year old Varitek. Provide the stats on Hernandez over the last 2 years, offense and defense, in your Wastefield defender style, Moonslob. Pretty good 36 year old catcher for a 1 year contract, instead of your favorite, Jason Varisuk. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Moon, just curious, but do you honestly thing VTek is good enough defensively?  He can't catch Wake, because Wake is too slow to the plate ... runners would walk around the bases.  So Salty gets thrown in there.  I don't really see any great game calling from VTek, I see him catching guys he has caught for years ... while Salty spent the year improving (c'mon, he improved even if he waned at the end).    Getting younger is the future, the future is now IMO.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Moon, just curious, but do you honestly thing VTek is good enough defensively? 

    Yes.
    1) The CS% is over-rated as a defensive gauge. His low rate basically amounted to about 12 SBs more this year than if he had a good rate.
    2) He still blocks pitches well and blocks the plate on throws home pretty well.
    3) To me 'defensive' also means how well you do at getting the best out of the pitchers you catch: your pitch-calling, etc... VTek is excellent in this area, and the decade long numbers back me up.


     He can't catch Wake, because Wake is too slow to the plate ... runners would walk around the bases. 

    Wake probably won't be here in 2012, and VTek will only catch 35-65 games anyway, unless there are 2 injuries.  BTW, the CS% with Wake last year was second best on the starting staff (behind lefty Lester).

    So Salty gets thrown in there.  I don't really see any great game calling from VTek, I see him catching guys he has caught for years ... while Salty spent the year improving (c'mon, he improved even if he waned at the end).    Getting younger is the future, the future is now IMO.

    Salty got was worse after about Agust first... on defense, and not just with Wake.

    Just because you don't see "great game calling" from VTek, doesn't mean it's not there. The numbers overwhelmingly support VTek vs every back-up we've had for 10 years...head to head. Plus, it's more than just calling a picth and location.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay Gone:
    [QUOTE]Lackey should remind you (I said no more than 3 years and 30M offer) You lie. You never even mentioned money or lackey until after the signing. I have posted your exact statement about the signing over and over again. You said it was a "necessary signing" and that it was "too much money but worth it No, you lie. I mentioned numerous times and called Lackey a prima donna who should not be offered a long term FA deal. Never once said it was worth it or necessary signing. I said, of the Big 3 FA that year, it was the only one that made any sense at all if they were going to sign a FA regardless of value. You pretend that my Kemp trade is for one year of Kemp, when you know full well the extension is part of the deal. You were an after the fact minion on Agon, and you are always out to lunch. Most of your posts are long snipets about reasons to offer Varitek and Wakefield another year of FA contracts. The two cost nearly 6M in 2011. Then, you claim that offering 3 or 4M and 1 year to a solid catcher like Hernandez for 100 to 110 games and 2 to 2.5M for one year veteran starting pitcher contracts is blowing precious money that needs to be saved by bringing two old washed up parasite losers back! Take a look at the front survey and the comments of overwhelming majority of Red Sox fans who don't want Varitek and Wakefield offered FA MLB contracts. These were many fans who were foolishly on board with the last gift contracts to these old men. Only you want to continue it and claim it saves precious money. What a joke.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Ding ding ding!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    2) He still blocks pitches well and blocks the plate on throws home pretty well.


    Anyone looking for a good laugh, read the above comment about how Varitek still blocks pitches well.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OurMan. Show OurMan's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    In Response to Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay Gone:
    [QUOTE]2) He still blocks pitches well and blocks the plate on throws home pretty well. Anyone looking for a good laugh, read the above comment about how Varitek still blocks pitches well.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Proof that Moonchick is 3 Wheaties short of a box.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Passed Balls:
           VTek   Salty
    '11     6        26
    '10     1          0
    '09     1          2
    '08     4          6
    Total since you wanted him cut:
      VTek:  12 in 246 games ( Innings 3815)
      Salty:  34 in 244 games (Innings 2086) 
     (Even if you take away the Wake PBs, Vtek still blows Salty away.)

    Wild pitches:
           VTek  Salty
    '11    17     41  (-15 with Wake = 26)
    '10      3       0
    '09    21     23
    '08    23     23
    Total 2008-2011
    VTek   64 in 3815 innings
    Salty   87 in 2086 innings
      (No Wake: 72 in 1931 innings)

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    I think we should bring Tek and Wake back and then ad Jamie Moyer as the 5th starter. Let's go old all the way baby.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Jamie had a 1.101 WHIP in 2010 at age 47...

    Tongue out
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Defending Varitek by comparing him to Salty is like comparing Obama to Marx. Salty is a butcher, and so is Varitek.

    If Red Sox management brings Varisuk and/or Wastefield back on FA million dollar contracts, I'll know the beer and frathouse are back in business for 2012.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Wake up. The Sox are not getting Hernandez, so it's Salty, Lava or a cheap vet. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Wake up. Sox need to wake up and understand that Hernandez, if not offered arbitration, is a value and fit at market price of 3 to 4M. Varisukdisabled cost 2M in 2011. I dont think spending another 1 or 2M over Varisuk is going to break the bank. Laird should be a 1M one year altnerantive to Varisuk.

    Salty and Lavarnway should be a competition for future starter, not for 2 active roster spots. 

    To see how Inepstein was, simply look at catcher and SS and OF and pitching staff.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    My position is that the Sox think too highly of Salty and Lava to make a $4-6M move for a catcher

    No way Buck gets 2M and 2 years and hernandez gets 5 or 6M. Buck is 3 to 4. Stop claiming numbers (6M for hernandez and 1M for Varitek) just to post hoc.

    Salty is not bringing a lot!

    Paying Varisuk 2M for 2011 is not thinking too highly of Salty and Way.

    Hernandez on a one year buyout 2 basis is hardly risk taking on decline at 36. 

    Read, yes, read and know that 2010 was year 1 for when I wanted Varisuk off the millions payroll! Not at age 36!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Wake up. Sox need to wake up and understand that Hernandez, if not offered arbitration, is a value and fit at market price of 3 to 4M. Varisukdisabled cost 2M in 2011. I dont think spending another 1 or 2M over Varisuk is going to break the bank. Laird should be a 1M one year altnerantive to Varisuk.

    Salty and Lavarnway should be a competition for future starter, not for 2 active roster spots. 

    To see how Inepstein was, simply look at catcher and SS and OF and pitching staff.


    Can you ever get my position correct? If you knew how to read, I have said I like Ramon Hernandez, and think we should trade Salty. I have very little confidence in Salty.

    My position is that the Sox think too highly of Salty and Lava to make a $4-6M move for a catcher who is the same age as VTek was when he dropped heavily in production. He's the same age VTek was when you started calling for his removal from the team due to his age. 

    I'd be very happy with RamHern and Lava with no VTek in 2012, plus what we get for Salty (which might be surprisingly a lot)  next year. It ain't happening.  

    I also do not think cacthing is our number one priority and about 110 out of 11 posters agree. (Your new criteria for proof of validity)
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Salty could bring a nice established middle reliever maybe, say someone like Clay Hensley?  What do you think moon?

    OK

    Or a long shot trade of Youk, Salty, one prospect (whoever Cincy wants) for Aroldis Chapman, and Votto.  Maybe Votto becomes the DH and can play the OF?  

    It would take more than Ellsbury to get Votto alone.



     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Fan former Red Sox Player FA Referendum #1: Jason Varitek? A: Overwhelming Majority of Red Sox Fans Want Varitek to Stay ...

    Salty could bring a nice established middle reliever maybe, say someone like Clay Hensley?  What do you think moon?

    Or a long shot trade of Youk, Salty, one prospect (whoever Cincy wants) for Aroldis Chapman, and Votto.  Maybe Votto becomes the DH and can play the OF?  

    Then we have to find a third-baseman, and sign Hernandez to catch with Lavarnway...

    Of course the Reds have a sensational prospect in Alonso that plays first base... so Youk is not even a true fit in Cincy.  However Votto is certainly a possibility to be moved... he would make an awesome #5.

    9) Crawford
    1) Elles
    2) Pedroia
    3) AGON
    4) Votto
    5 Lavarnway

    then when Elles is moved next winter we can easily absorb the loss, never missing a beat.

    All ready sounds far-fetched and unworkable. Oh well.
     
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