Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:


    It's one thing to think that Oakland got the better of the deal to date.  Its something else entirely to  irrationally trumpet the move as terrible.  Trade wasnt that bad.  We traded a good platoon player for an injury prone potential closer.



    Drew , that does not change the fact that the good platoon player had a far , far better year than the potential closer. And , that there is no way that Beane would reverse the deal for 2013 . 



    Those points are correct.  But:

    1. A trade can't be evaluated until all the performances are delivered which can take years; and
    2. Sometimes "good" bets fail....knowing what I knew 12 months ago I definitely would trade thingy for Bailey again.  Can anyone here show evidence of their opposition last winter?

     I doubt it.

     

     




There's the rub. There are "bad deals" and there are deals that looked solid at the time but, in hindsight, haven't worked out. I've always seen Reddick-for-Bailey as the latter. Knowing what we knew a year ago, I think you trade the unproven and inconsistent prospect for the proven MLB All-Star closer all over again.

I doubt many of the people now complaining about the trade now were opposed at the time, because the whine brigade's MO is usually to demand we trade "overrated" prospects who aren't a sure thing for some other team's stars. (See the massive uproar last month when Ben C didn't pull off some version of the trade the Jays made with the Marlins, even though it would have involved giving up multiple young players for guys like J. Johnson and Jose Reyes with well-known injury histories.) So while the Bailey trade didn't look good in 2012 obviously, the Monday morning quarterbacking has gotten pretty excessive here. It's one thing to say the trade hasn't worked out, but it's quite another to say that it was a dumb move at the time that should never have been made and the GM is a moron for making it.

 
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    I am glad Farrell is making the call now.  If Bailey wants the job he can earn it on merit.  If Hanrahan wants to keep it, same thing, be better than Bailey.  Competition is a good thing, and so is depth. 

    Unfortunately Bailey had a freak injury and gets a Mulligan.  I think this trade needs a year or two more to unfold before the final verdict is in.     

    Oh yeah, and this team wasn't an OF'er away from being relevant last year. 

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    I am glad Farrell is making the call now.  If Bailey wants the job he can earn it on merit.  If Hanrahan wants to keep it, same thing, be better than Bailey.  Competition is a good thing, and so is depth. 

    Unfortunately Bailey had a freak injury and gets a Mulligan.  I think this trade needs a year or two more to unfold before the final verdict is in.     

    Oh yeah, and this team wasn't an OF'er away from being relevant last year. 




    Good post.

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Wow.

    Farrell announced that Hanrahan is the closer and Bailey is the set up man, thereby ending the long-standing argument about whether trading Reddick for Bailey was a bad deal.

    Farrell just said "yes" it was a bad deal. 

    He's not even interested in giving Bailey achance to win the closer job - he already knows that Bailey is not up to that job.

    The Sox gave up an All Star, Gold Glove 25 year old OF who mashed HRs all season for a set up guy.  Not "THE" set up guy - just one of many set up guys.

    Case closed.

     



    I still don't like Reddick. There are lots of reasons not to. But anyway, sure bad trade you win. Yay.

    Glad that's over with.



    I always liked Reddck, but he still has plenty of question marks.  Start with the .608 OPS in his last 54 games, with a 51/12 K/W.  He needs to control the zone better.


    what about his glove? his teams record last year? thats what you base his season on?



    When I say he has question marks, it means going forward.  I've seen no shortage of players with one good season to their names that have flattened out.  Plantier had 34 HRs at age 24, and 39 for the remainder of his career.  Pags had 28 and 32 in B2B seasons, and 33 the rest of his career.  Kittle 35 HRs as a rookie, declined almost every year after that.  Coghlin, Soto, Jennings, Williamson, Hinske, Berroa, Crosby all recenr ROYs.

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In a crowded outfield of Cespedes, Chris Young, Crisp, Seth Smith....Reddick may not even start.




    When Billy Beane gave Cespedes a 4-year, $36 million deal, I thought Beane was crazy.  But he has proven me wrong again. 

     

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    How about we just try to take a realistic look at this situation , without prejudice or name calling ?No cherry picking segments of the season to make your point. The reality is :  Bailey missed most of 2012 and performed poorly when he did play. Now , it appears that , at least for the time being , he has lost the closer's job. Reddick hit 32 home runs , won a gold glove and finished 16th in the MVP voting. Things could change in 2013 , but for now , even the staunchest Cherington supporters should realize that this trade was lopsided in favor of Oakland. I would bet the farm ( if I had a farm ) that , if Ben called Billy Beane tomorrow and offered a straight trade of Bailey for Reddick , Beane would say no. 




    Thats cherry picking.   it's funny no one on the Reddick side ever talks about his low BA, His average OPS, or the amount he strikes out.

    I am fine with saying it was a bad trade if it makes people happy.  What I am not fine is all this gushing love towards a very average player.  

    Reddick isn't that good. Lifetime 240 hitter. Strikes out a ton.  Good power. Plus fielder.

    Who cares?

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

     it's funny no one on the Reddick side ever talks about his low BA, His average OPS, or the amount he strikes out.

    I am fine with saying it was a bad trade if it makes people happy.  What I am not fine is all this gushing love towards a very average player.  

    Reddick isn't that good. Lifetime 240 hitter. Strikes out a ton.  Good power. Plus fielder.

    Who cares?

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you are being harsh on Reddick, ("very average player") Snake.  He has his flaws but his defense is elite playing RF which makes him well above an average player.

    Reddick 2012:

    MLB  WAR   OF rank   13th

    MLB Fielding FGhs at    ANY    position rank  3rd

    MLB  ISO OF rank  15th

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

     it's funny no one on the Reddick side ever talks about his low BA, His average OPS, or the amount he strikes out.

    I am fine with saying it was a bad trade if it makes people happy.  What I am not fine is all this gushing love towards a very average player.  

    Reddick isn't that good. Lifetime 240 hitter. Strikes out a ton.  Good power. Plus fielder.

    Who cares?


    I think you are being harsh on Reddick, ("very average player") Snake.  He has his flaws but his defense is elite playing RF which makes him well above an average player.

    2012:

    MLB  WAR   OF rank Reddick  13th

    MLB Fielding FGhs at    ANY    position rank  3rd

    MLB  ISO OF rank  15th



    He is an excellent defensive player.  I just get tired of people saying "32 homers gold glove" without mentioning his faults.  Which are obvious.  and glaring.

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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    Actually Farrell didn't say one word in his quotes about the Reddick - Bailey trade. Why didn't any posters notice this? Isn't putting his foot into his mouth be more like Bobby Valentine. Why would anyone who read the news think for a second that Farrell was discussing the Reddick-Bailey trade? Schumpeter must have been boozed up when he had such poor reading comprehension.

    Reminds me very much how a past forum simpleton named Law did this over and over after reading the news. He always misinterpreted what he read but then he most probably did this intentionally. Color him as a staged pretender but never use the other more common term that starts with t.



    why do you think there has been 3 pages saying SG and the OP is all BS? most everyone read the article and noticed SG was being a turd in the punchbowl and inferring the aforementioned BS. Please try to keep up pike

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    Actually Farrell didn't say one word in his quotes about the Reddick - Bailey trade. Why didn't any posters notice this? Isn't putting his foot into his mouth be more like Bobby Valentine. Why would anyone who read the news think for a second that Farrell was discussing the Reddick-Bailey trade? Schumpeter must have been boozed up when he had such poor reading comprehension.

    Reminds me very much how a past forum simpleton named Law did this over and over after reading the news. He always misinterpreted what he read but then he most probably did this intentionally. Color him as a staged pretender but never use the other more common term that starts with t.



    why do you think there has been 3 pages saying SG and the OP is all BS? most everyone read the article and noticed SG was being a turd in the punchbowl and inferring the aforementioned BS. Please try to keep up pike




    You exaggerate. Drewski had to go back and read the news and then was only upset at SG for four seconds. Halifax agreed that it was a bad trade despite the fact that the jury is still out. Sonics did not address the OP. DGalehouse agreed with Schumpeter. Where were you on page #1 with your objection to the OP. Drewski admitted that he tolerated the inane OP because he was bored. Why not immediately read an idiotic thread title and OP  and call it out as complete BS like I did?  Schumpeter, do you now know that you were " a turd in the punchbowl". Why not stop starting such stupid threads since MEF429 and others think that you and your threads are BS.




    ...give it a rest

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    By no means am I trying to portray Reddick as the next coming of Roberto Clemente. All I am saying is that he was far , far more valuable than was Andrew Bailey in 2012.  Billy Beane stole Ben Cherington's lunch on this one.  Just admit it and move on. Hopefully , Ben learns from his mistakes.

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    There are a lot of insane people on this board.  hopefully that will get cleared up by moderators.  I am talking straight-jacket insane people who don't talk baseball and need to be examined by mental health professionals (you know who you are - now take your meds).

    As for Reddick - I am simultaneously being told to respect Victorino's Gold Gloves from years ago and ignore Reddick's from last year.  Okay Snake, whatever you say.  I am being told that Napoli batting .227 last year is irrelevant and he must be signed; but Reddick batting .240 is a clear indication he is "not good"

    I'll retire to bedlam.

     

     

     

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    When Reddick got traded, he knew nothing about the Oakland A's.  So he saw the movie, "Moneyball" while flying to Oakland.   LOL

    Anyway, I am very happy for Reddick and wish him the very best (except when he plays Boston).

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

                             A's don't win ALW without Reddick. It's that simple. But wait,maybe they win with Bailey and Sweeney..............ya think?

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:


    It's one thing to think that Oakland got the better of the deal to date.  Its something else entirely to  irrationally trumpet the move as terrible.  Trade wasnt that bad.  We traded a good platoon player for an injury prone potential closer.



    Drew , that does not change the fact that the good platoon player had a far , far better year than the potential closer. And , that there is no way that Beane would reverse the deal for 2013 . 



    Those points are correct.  But:

    1. A trade can't be evaluated until all the performances are delivered which can take years; and
    2. Sometimes "good" bets fail....knowing what I knew 12 months ago I definitely would trade thingy for Bailey again.  Can anyone here show evidence of their opposition last winter?

     I doubt it.

     

     




    There's the rub. There are "bad deals" and there are deals that looked solid at the time but, in hindsight, haven't worked out. I've always seen Reddick-for-Bailey as the latter. Knowing what we knew a year ago, I think you trade the unproven and inconsistent prospect for the proven MLB All-Star closer all over again.

    I doubt many of the people now complaining about the trade now were opposed at the time, because the whine brigade's MO is usually to demand we trade "overrated" prospects who aren't a sure thing for some other team's stars. (See the massive uproar last month when Ben C didn't pull off some version of the trade the Jays made with the Marlins, even though it would have involved giving up multiple young players for guys like J. Johnson and Jose Reyes with well-known injury histories.) So while the Bailey trade didn't look good in 2012 obviously, the Monday morning quarterbacking has gotten pretty excessive here. It's one thing to say the trade hasn't worked out, but it's quite another to say that it was a dumb move at the time that should never have been made and the GM is a moron for making it.




  • Exactly right and well put.

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

     it's funny no one on the Reddick side ever talks about his low BA, His average OPS, or the amount he strikes out.

    I am fine with saying it was a bad trade if it makes people happy.  What I am not fine is all this gushing love towards a very average player.  

    Reddick isn't that good. Lifetime 240 hitter. Strikes out a ton.  Good power. Plus fielder.

    Who cares?



    I think you are being harsh on Reddick, ("very average player") Snake.  He has his flaws but his defense is elite playing RF which makes him well above an average player.

    Reddick 2012:

    MLB  WAR   OF rank   13th

    MLB Fielding FGhs at    ANY    position rank  3rd

    MLB  ISO OF rank  15th




    I agree that Snakeoil calling Reddick very average is a bit of an exaggeration; however, I completely agreee w/ teh supposition of his post.

    So let's meet in the middle.

    Reddick is an above average player, who is very replacable.  Fair?

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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    Actually Farrell didn't say one word in his quotes about the Reddick - Bailey trade. Why didn't any posters notice this? Isn't putting his foot into his mouth be more like Bobby Valentine. Why would anyone who read the news think for a second that Farrell was discussing the Reddick-Bailey trade? Schumpeter must have been boozed up when he had such poor reading comprehension.

    Reminds me very much how a past forum simpleton named Law did this over and over after reading the news. He always misinterpreted what he read but then he most probably did this intentionally. Color him as a staged pretender but never use the other more common term that starts with t.



    why do you think there has been 3 pages saying SG and the OP is all BS? most everyone read the article and noticed SG was being a turd in the punchbowl and inferring the aforementioned BS. Please try to keep up pike




    You exaggerate. Drewski had to go back and read the news and then was only upset at SG for four seconds. Halifax agreed that it was a bad trade despite the fact that the jury is still out. Sonics did not address the OP. DGalehouse agreed with Schumpeter. Where were you on page #1 with your objection to the OP. Drewski admitted that he tolerated the inane OP because he was bored. Why not immediately read an idiotic thread title and OP  and call it out as complete BS like I did?  Schumpeter, do you now know that you were " a turd in the punchbowl". Why not stop starting such stupid threads since MEF429 and others think that you and your threads are BS.




    Agreed.  Sometimes, when Im bored, I like to come here, read overly simplistic complainy OP and then watch good posters pick the frustrating OPs apart.

    I think where you and I disagree is that you believe that concern trolls should be driven from the forum.  I see where you are coming from and respect this postion; however, I disagree.  I think they are worth keeping around because its fun to watch guys like Jim Davis take the concern trolls to school.

    I know your rebuttal before you even write it (because you've said it before and its a very valid point): "yeah, but the concern trolls have driven some very good posters from this forum."

    To that I say: "touche."

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In the second half of last year, Reddick had:

    a .215 BA, .256 OBP, 12 HR (as opposed to 20 in the first half), .391 slg.

    In sept/Oct he hit .167.  By year end, he was hitting eigth in the As lineup.

    Reddick would be a platoon player on the 2013 RS.  Lets please stop acting like he was a monumental loss.




    Don't let facts, logic or reality get in the way of empty soap box rhetoric.

     

    Great post Drewski!!

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    There are a lot of insane people on this board.  hopefully that will get cleared up by moderators.  I am talking straight-jacket insane people who don't talk baseball and need to be examined by mental health professionals (you know who you are - now take your meds).

    As for Reddick - I am simultaneously being told to respect Victorino's Gold Gloves from years ago and ignore Reddick's from last year.  Okay Snake, whatever you say.  I am being told that Napoli batting .227 last year is irrelevant and he must be signed; but Reddick batting .240 is a clear indication he is "not good"

    I'll retire to bedlam.

     

     

     



    You are missing the point.  Your reaction to the loss of Reddick far outwieghs the impact of Reddick.  

    240 is not a good batting average. It is below average for a major league player.  We all know this.  

    I don't know why you are bringing up Napoli to me. I could care less either way if the Red sox get him or another decent  first baseman.  

     

     

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

     I agree that Snakeoil calling Reddick very average is a bit of an exaggeration; however, I completely agreee w/ teh supposition of his post.

    So let's meet in the middle.

    Reddick is an above average player, who is very replacable.  Fair?

    [/QUOTE]

    I think many fans undervalue defense.  I was not keen on him after his poor 2010, Soxprospects (Boom) was right, he is one hell of an athlete.

    I would say Reddick is very hard to replace.

    Some will say WAR is junk, and the defensive portion or WAR is total junk.  I'd say (like Reddick) it has its flaws but is the best metric we have.

    On a WAR/game basis over 2011 and 2012 look where JR ranks amongst some OF in the press this offseason:

    Bourn  10.5 / 313   .034

    Melky  8.8 / 268   .033

    Victorino  9.2 / 286   .032

    C Young  7.4 / 257   .029

    JUpton  8.9 /309   .029

    Reddick  6.7 / 243   .028

    Hunter  7.9 / 296  .027

    Swisher  7.7 / 298   .026

    BJ Upton  7.5 / 299  .025

     

     
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    Re: Farrell has the last word on the Reddick-Bailey trade

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Wow.

    Farrell announced that Hanrahan is the closer and Bailey is the set up man, thereby ending the long-standing argument about whether trading Reddick for Bailey was a bad deal.

    Farrell just said "yes" it was a bad deal. 

    He's not even interested in giving Bailey achance to win the closer job - he already knows that Bailey is not up to that job.

    The Sox gave up an All Star, Gold Glove 25 year old OF who mashed HRs all season for a set up guy.  Not "THE" set up guy - just one of many set up guys.

    Case closed.

     



    A simple question:  Do you ever move on? 

    Another simple question:  Do you enjoy living in the shadow of misery?

     
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