FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I gotta agree with roy, Pumpsie.  There's no way to have a legitimate discussion about Francona with you.  You call him the 'witless wonder' 'Francoma' and various other insults, and anybody who disagrees with you is an 'apologist'.  It's actually quite comical that you think this can be called a legitimate discussion.  It's not a discussion at all.  It's a harangue by you.



    So let me get this straight: because I have some colorful nicknames for a manager who I think is vastly overrated by many people here a legitimate discussion cannot be held about his merits? You are smarter than that Hfx. The fact of the matter is that in the course of the discussion with Roy I mentioned the specific reasons I felt Francoma was a mediocre manager (not a poor one, just mediocre as I have written many times)-as well as his strengths. That is the essence of being fair IMO. For review, I said that Francoma's weaknesses include his stubborness, his failure to learn from past mistakes, leaving pitchers in the game when they were clearly tiring, failing to utilize the full offensive arsenal at his disposal including the bunt, the hit and run etc, failing to pinch hit for slumping players when the game is on the line because he is afraid of "losing them", supporting his players when they deserved discipline and not support etc. His strength was keeping the players happy and maintaining clubhouse harmony. I would have loved that kind of boss: someone who supported me and gave me nearly everything I wanted and never disciplined me when I really deserved to be taken to the woodshed for my performance.
    These are things I have written many times before so your contention that I cannot conduct a serious discussion about the Witless Wonder (too bad if you don't like the nicknames; they have nothing to do with the facts of the matter) are simply not supported by the facts.

     

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to TV-Guy's comment:

    You can call Terry a poor manager without doing character assasination and using juvenile nicknames. The use of derragatory nicknames is only used here by Softlaw, Georom, Seabeachfred, Bosox1941, and Pumpsie. Most here stopped that routine in Jr. High. It is behavior unbecoming of a 60+ yr. old.




    I did not call him a poor manager. Read the post: I said he is a MEDIOCRE manager. One put on a pedestal by too many people. As for the nicknames that you don't like: too bad.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    Funny how these threads get drift off into diatribes about other managers, etc.  Let's not forget that when Francona was making those decisions about relievers, Farrell was right next to him and probably agreeing with him.

    First and foremost, sending Hanrahan out there was normal for a closer, tied game, 9th inning.  Anyone who argues you only send the closer out with a lead doesn't understand something very fundamental:  when the game is tied in the 9th or later and you are the home team, none of your relievers will be protecting a lead. 

    I entirely agree Farrell made a great decision by pulling Hanrahan, but since then we have learned Hanrahan has mechanical issues stemming from his lower body.  And that means the catcher, the manager, and the pitching coach would all have been looking for that particular problem and how it related to the two walks.  That made the decision to pull Hanrahan easier. 

    When Hanrahan fixes his mechanical problems, he is still a good bet to close. 

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Funny how these threads get drift off into diatribes about other managers, etc.  Let's not forget that when Francona was making those decisions about relievers, Farrell was right next to him and probably agreeing with him.

    First and foremost, sending Hanrahan out there was normal for a closer, tied game, 9th inning.  Anyone who argues you only send the closer out with a lead doesn't understand something very fundamental:  when the game is tied in the 9th or later and you are the home team, none of your relievers will be protecting a lead. 

    I entirely agree Farrell made a great decision by pulling Hanrahan, but since then we have learned Hanrahan has mechanical issues stemming from his lower body.  And that means the catcher, the manager, and the pitching coach would all have been looking for that particular problem and how it related to the two walks.  That made the decision to pull Hanrahan easier. 

    When Hanrahan fixes his mechanical problems, he is still a good bet to close. 



    Maybe he has an injury; maybe he is just ineffective and the injury is a coverup. Its the manager's decision when to pull a pitcher; I doubt he asks the pitching coach for his opinion every time he does it. Sometimes, perhaps, but the manager is in control of that. Furthermore, its not unreasonable to compliment our new manager by contrasting him with our two previous managers here on this forum. And finally, I am not so sure Hanrahan is going to get his job back if Bailey is lights out while he has the duty.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Great move by Farrell. I do not think we win the game if he does not make the move right there. He obviously anticipated it , as he had Uehara warming. In fairness to Tito , not too many managers would have been that aggressive. And we would have been hearing the nonsense about how you have to trust your closer, etc., etc. , etc. Great managing. Game ball to John Farrell. 

     



    i don't think it was a great move.... it was a bad call to bring out Hanny with the game tied in the first place. he just saved face from being blasted for bringing out hanrahan to blow another game.

     



    Mef429, if you are serious, you simply don't know baseball.  In a tie game in the 9th or later and in your own park, it is no longer possible for anyone in your bullpen to get a save.  So you are basically saying that in a tight ball game--and what could be tighter than a tie game in the 9th?--you simply would never use your closer.  That's crazy. 

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to mryazz's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I gotta agree with roy, Pumpsie.  There's no way to have a legitimate discussion about Francona with you.  You call him the 'witless wonder' 'Francoma' and various other insults, and anybody who disagrees with you is an 'apologist'.  It's actually quite comical that you think this can be called a legitimate discussion.  It's not a discussion at all.  It's a harangue by you.

     



    So let me get this straight: because I have some colorful nicknames for a manager who I think is vastly overrated by many people here a legitimate discussion cannot be held about his merits? You are smarter than that Hfx. The fact of the matter is that in the course of the discussion with Roy I mentioned the specific reasons I felt Francoma was a mediocre manager (not a poor one, just mediocre as I have written many times)-as well as his strengths. That is the essence of being fair IMO. For review, I said that Francoma's weaknesses include his stubborness, his failure to learn from past mistakes, leaving pitchers in the game when they were clearly tiring, failing to utilize the full offensive arsenal at his disposal including the bunt, the hit and run etc, failing to pinch hit for slumping players when the game is on the line because he is afraid of "losing them", supporting his players when they deserved discipline and not support etc. His strength was keeping the players happy and maintaining clubhouse harmony. I would have loved that kind of boss: someone who supported me and gave me nearly everything I wanted and never disciplined me when I really deserved to be taken to the woodshed for my performance.
    These are things I have written many times before so your contention that I cannot conduct a serious discussion about the Witless Wonder (too bad if you don't like the nicknames; they have nothing to do with the facts of the matter) are simply not supported by the facts.

     

     

     



    +1. when you're right, you're right.

     



    Thanks. Its a little irritating to read about Francoma being a great manager because he won two WS. He lucked out by coming into some great situations. I will also admit that I think he did a great job of managing during the playoffs-he actually managed rather than watched the games with his head in the spittoon. If he had actually done what he was hired to do we would have won many more games during the regular season while he was here.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to BaddBrains' comment:

    Hanrahan was also bouncing pitches into the plate. His mechanics are definitely messed up. 




    Apparently he was wild at times in Pittsburgh. This is nothing new.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom2. Show proftom2's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    Agreed, I was justing thinking why do managers stick with a guy when he's not performing well? But, then Farrell delivers good thinking and sound logic. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Great move by Farrell. I do not think we win the game if he does not make the move right there. He obviously anticipated it , as he had Uehara warming. In fairness to Tito , not too many managers would have been that aggressive. And we would have been hearing the nonsense about how you have to trust your closer, etc., etc. , etc. Great managing. Game ball to John Farrell. 

     



    i don't think it was a great move.... it was a bad call to bring out Hanny with the game tied in the first place. he just saved face from being blasted for bringing out hanrahan to blow another game.

     

     



    Mef429, if you are serious, you simply don't know baseball.  In a tie game in the 9th or later and in your own park, it is no longer possible for anyone in your bullpen to get a save.  So you are basically saying that in a tight ball game--and what could be tighter than a tie game in the 9th?--you simply would never use your closer.  That's crazy. 

     



    not when the last time out your closer let up 5 ER in 2/3 inning!! normally, i would agree with you. but considering just a few days ago Hanny was getting shelled i would not have put him out there so soon. Turns out, he has an injury and shouldn't have been out there anyway. so call me crazy...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to BaddBrains' comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to BaddBrains' comment:

     

    Hanrahan was also bouncing pitches into the plate. His mechanics are definitely messed up. 

     




    Apparently he was wild at times in Pittsburgh. This is nothing new.

     

     



    So why are you talking coverup or spin?

     



    I don't know if the injury is real of made up. I know Hanrahan has been ineffective and sometimes teams make up injuries to put a guy on the DL so the player is not embarassed in public by admitting that he is simply ineffective but healthy. DL stints to get a player's act together is a common occurence.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    Hard to say either way, pumpsie. I hope it's an injury issue, which would explain his shakey start...or finishTongue Out

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

     

    farrell just got my permanent respect.. no way is tito ever doing that so early in the season! but thats called a message as i expect to see   bailey closing very soon. wild guys should not b closers.. period! this aint pittsburgh! no room for jabronis in elite roles! he learned well from 2011. u dont just keep running the same jabronis out there in the same way. called insanity. must try something new esp when the replacement has been getting the job done. very belichickian. bodes well for his future!

     



    YES, I completely agree we would have lost the game in my opinion if he didn't.  We also need to find some sort of offense on this team.  Price is a good pitcher but it's also a good thing Lester was and has been pitching well because our team still lacks run production.

     

     




    very Torre like to yank a guy like that when he's testing your patience and u need to send a message. lucky for joe, closa was never an issue. prob with han though is that this lack of contol and jabronish period has been going on for quite a while now (most second half of last year, spring training and thru most of this year's appearances). cant see him regaining his control and form within a week. by end of next week, barring injury, closa = bailey with taz and koj keeping their roles. han is going to be melanconed very soon. perhaps put on DL for mental health reasons.. clear his head.. something made up!

     




    Not made up injury. Hanrahan has dealt with hamstring injuries for years.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    Also..while I agree it's early in the season...I am enough of a jaded sports fan to know that sometimes at the end of the season..these early games take on a whole new importance. It's always better to get the Win in every game.

     

    Of course every game matters.  But is it better to win today's game and lose 3 in the future because of today's decision or lose today's game and win 3 in the future?

    Obviously none of the outcomes are guaranteed based on any decision a manager makes, but the point is, a manager's decision this early in the season cannot be based solely on today's game.

     




    I agree with you Kimmi to a certain point.

    I understand why he put hanny in there and I think it was the right move. When a closer has a bad game, you want him right back out there ASAP. But where I disagree with you is to leave him in when he was obviously struggling to find the strike zone again. That, and Farrell said Hanny was having issues with an on going hamstring issue hes had for a few years now. He was getting treatment for it and up until now, was managing it pretty good. Farrell saw his mechanics were off (because of that hamstring?) and pulled him quickly. He just lost a bad game and it would be wrong to leave him in again.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

     

    farrell just got my permanent respect.. no way is tito ever doing that so early in the season! but thats called a message as i expect to see   bailey closing very soon. wild guys should not b closers.. period! this aint pittsburgh! no room for jabronis in elite roles! he learned well from 2011. u dont just keep running the same jabronis out there in the same way. called insanity. must try something new esp when the replacement has been getting the job done. very belichickian. bodes well for his future!

     



    YES, I completely agree we would have lost the game in my opinion if he didn't.  We also need to find some sort of offense on this team.  Price is a good pitcher but it's also a good thing Lester was and has been pitching well because our team still lacks run production.

     

     




    very Torre like to yank a guy like that when he's testing your patience and u need to send a message. lucky for joe, closa was never an issue. prob with han though is that this lack of contol and jabronish period has been going on for quite a while now (most second half of last year, spring training and thru most of this year's appearances). cant see him regaining his control and form within a week. by end of next week, barring injury, closa = bailey with taz and koj keeping their roles. han is going to be melanconed very soon. perhaps put on DL for mental health reasons.. clear his head.. something made up!

     

     




    Not made up injury. Hanrahan has dealt with hamstring injuries for years.

     



    If thats true #1 He should not have been out there pitching yesterday in a tie game in the ninth and #2 if it hasn't gone away in years its likely not going to go away any time soon-meaning this is the guy we are stuck with.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: FARRELL just got my PERMANENT respect upon yanking HANRAHAN!

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Ah, then you're saying you would have demoted Hanrahan by now and simply stopped using him.  The normal rule is to use the closer until you have lost confidence in him or he is injured.  Let's not forget that on at least one of those walks Hanrahan was squeezed by the umpire who wouldn't call strikes low in the zone. 

     

    Great move by Farrell. I do not think we win the game if he does not make the move right there. He obviously anticipated it , as he had Uehara warming. In fairness to Tito , not too many managers would have been that aggressive. And we would have been hearing the nonsense about how you have to trust your closer, etc., etc. , etc. Great managing. Game ball to John Farrell. 

     



    i don't think it was a great move.... it was a bad call to bring out Hanny with the game tied in the first place. he just saved face from being blasted for bringing out hanrahan to blow another game.

     

     



    Mef429, if you are serious, you simply don't know baseball.  In a tie game in the 9th or later and in your own park, it is no longer possible for anyone in your bullpen to get a save.  So you are basically saying that in a tight ball game--and what could be tighter than a tie game in the 9th?--you simply would never use your closer.  That's crazy. 

     

     



    not when the last time out your closer let up 5 ER in 2/3 inning!! normally, i would agree with you. but considering just a few days ago Hanny was getting shelled i would not have put him out there so soon. Turns out, he has an injury and shouldn't have been out there anyway. so call me crazy...

     




     

Share